I dont get it

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Imported, Mar 5, 2004.

  1. Imported

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    Javierdude22: Maybe im just naive, silly, or to much of an ideologist (this btw is not a retorical question). But I dont get some of the thing happening in politics. Mind you, theyve happened ever since time began, but still...

    For example, in Peru. The president here is Alejandro Toledo, the lamest guy ever who followed up the dictator Fujimori. 54% of this country (by Peruvian standards) is in poverty. But poverty here means that families live off of 10 soles, or 3 dollars a day. By WEstern standards app. 80% lives in poverty. Most jobs consist out of standing on the corner of a street selling fruit for 50 centavos a piece. You can easily make a cool 5 soles a day like that (1,50$).

    And what does the president do? Raise his salary by 10,000 Dollars! Go on trips by privat jet that cost him 200,000 dollars a piece, and he gives every congressman 16 salaries a year, instead of the 14 an average payroll worker gets. -To fight corruption- he says. Ahuh, ever heard of jail?

    And so many cases that I just do not get. I run the risk of being called a socialist or communist here (or a wannabe cool liberal by some) but when you think about it: isnt it jut logic?

    I mean, a tax cut, that eventually only seems to benefit anyone making over 200 grand a year. A defense budget that could help Africa out of poverty, which eventually makes insurance benefits cuts necessary for the poorest lot.

    I just dont get it. How do these people sleep at night?

    Isnt it just plain logic that when you have a couple of billion dollars, that you get taxed a bit more? Have these people ever looked outside of their yards to see the little 5 year old girl selling candy on the corner of the street so her mom will let her come home?

    Isnt it logical that poor people who cannot afford to move away dont want the fumes of a factory in their backyard?

    I just dont get it...
     
  2. jonb

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    I'm sure you mean ideologue (Bill O'Reilly's trademark insult, pussy that he is.) And you're not one for not liking Toledo; I can't see why anyone would be against putting a control on such blatant corruption.

    Sadly, there was a big deal about this one correlation, the Laffer curve, which showed that upper-class tax cuts stimulated jobs. Turns out the Laffer curve was off the low end of the bell curve and had quite the learning curve.

    White-collar criminals rarely see prison; even when Martin Marietta filed for some twenty grand in federal aid for survey says golf balls, they didn't get punished. Of course, if you or I were to steal a bag of M&M's from the BP, we'd get rammed in prison for the next five years.
     
  3. Imported

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    gigantikok: [quote author=Javierdude24 link=board=99;num=1078533052;start=0#0 date=03/05/04 at 16:21:52]Isnt it just plain logic that when you have a couple of billion dollars, that you get taxed a bit more?[/quote]
    Actually, it makes MORE sense that the tax cuts apply to those who actually pay taxes. And in this country, while poor crack addicts and losers are reaping off of wefare and not paying a dime in taxes, the middle to upper class are the ones paying for them. Doesn't it seem logical to you that there should be tax returns and tax cuts to the people who actually PAY the majority of the taxes? Just a thought, really... You can't give back money to people who didn't spend it in the first place, sorry, that just doesn't work. This magic money doesn't appear out of nowhere, and it's thinking like that that causes the country to go further in debt.
     
  4. Imported

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    Javierdude22: [quote author=gigantikok link=board=99;num=1078533052;start=0#2 date=03/06/04 at 23:19:28]
    Actually, it makes MORE sense that the tax cuts apply to those who actually pay taxes.  And in this country, while poor crack addicts and losers are reaping off of wefare and not paying a dime in taxes, the middle to upper class are the ones paying for them.  Doesn't it seem logical to you that there should be tax returns and tax cuts to the people who actually PAY the majority of the taxes?  Just a thought, really...  You can't give back money to people who didn't spend it in the first place, sorry, that just doesn't work.  This magic money doesn't appear out of nowhere, and it's thinking like that that causes the country to go further in debt.  [/quote]

    I dont know what to do with this Gig. So your argument is basically that it was impossible to give a taxbreak to the poor people, cause they do not pay taxes? I am sorry, but this makes me laugh, not because I think it is funny btw.

    Have you followed the news lately Gig? Even besides your rather stereotypical and irrational opinion on the unfortunates in the USA, I wasnt talking about them per se.

    The tax break, only applies to people making over 200,000 dollars. I did not know your middle class section makes 200 grand a year! Cause them Im hauling my butt over there. What does a cleaning lady earn? a hundred thou?

    A supersmall percentile makes 200 grand a year in the US. The tax break should be exactly FOR the middle class, who makes far less than the 200,000.

    It is one of the first and foremost economic laws that if you want an economy running, you should support the middle and lower end of the economic classes. Why? Because they will spend their money on (necessary) luxury goods. The upper class has everything they wanted and will simply have more money in the bank, money which could do its work in the economy.

    On a sidenote. Not everyone who is poor is a crack addict, or a loser. I cannot believe you even said that. There are people struggling to get by, doing 2 or three jobs. How did you get where you are today Gig?
     
  5. Imported

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    blo1988: I usually won't weigh in on theses political issues but this hit a nerve, so......
    I am one of those Americans making over $200k a year and I am adamant that a tax cut is NOT what I needed. I am blessed to do something that is worthwhile and offers me a very nice income. I DON'T mind that part of my income goes to folks who have far less. I DON'T mind that money goes to artistic endeavours, inner-city day care facilities, and other public assistance organizations.
    One of the most puzzling and irritating things that I see among some(many) of my financially secure friends is this bizarre idea that we have a God-given right to moralize. I am dumbfounded when they act as though they should be the arbiter of who deserves a break. I have many friends with incomes greater than most people imagine who bitch about every penny that goes to public assistance. I am stunned. shocked, saddened ....and typically have little to say about it because I think that it accomplishes litttle to argue with an adult about values.
    It is apparently lost on many of us that by the grace of God we could be the child of a crack addict, or be born in a hovel in the countryside of Peru.
    I would agree with jav24 that the chasm existing between the "haves" and "have-nots" is a problem in the world. It is a problem in the US, S. America, Africa, Asia,etc. And in my opinion it is a problem that has been given too little attention.
     
  6. BobLeeSwagger

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    [quote author=gigantikok link=board=99;num=1078533052;start=0#2 date=03/06/04 at 23:19:28]
    Doesn't it seem logical to you that there should be tax returns and tax cuts to the people who actually PAY the majority of the taxes? Just a thought, really... You can't give back money to people who didn't spend it in the first place, sorry, that just doesn't work. [/quote]

    That's only partially true. It's true that the very wealthy pay a disproportionately high share of federal income taxes. But if you include payroll taxes, sales taxes and various state and local taxes, Americans pay similar percentages of their income at almost all income levels. Low wage earners pay a much higher porportion of their income in payroll taxes, even if they don't pay much (or any) taxes on their income.

    I'm in favor of a flatter tax system for several reasons, but two things bothers me. First, if you reduce taxes on the wealthy, you'll have to raise taxes on the poor. You'd have to do it very gradually to not screw over people who can least afford it. And second, barring some terrible economic crisis, no one in this country deserves a tax cut while the federal government is trillions of dollars in debt. A tax cut today is really a tax increase deferred.
     
  7. jonb

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    Actually, Javier, I agree with Gigz, I get sick of welfare queens too: Lockheed-Martin, GM, Nike, Johnson & Johnson, Mercedes-Benz. (Damn foreigners.) Oh, did I forget to mention that some 95% of government handouts go to corporations? Sometimes it's even paying them to shut down their factories and move them to the Third World, while the company's having record sales.
     
  8. Imported

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    Javierdude22: No shit!

    And ya know...these people in the third world should be really gratefull. For a cool 50 cents an hour 10 year old cambodian girls get to sew our clothes to one piece, so we can buy it again for 120 dollars!! Woohoo!!

    -Im sorry, were gonna have to cut jobs, we only made 859 million this years, we gotta keep the shareholders happy...-

    And again, what some people call -cool liberalism- socialism or even communism...I call being rational, logical, and fucking caring about somebody else for a change.
     
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