I don't mean to gloat but....

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_24065, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. B_24065

    B_24065 New Member

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    1. Obama administration is going abandon the "Public Option" in healthcare reform.
    White House appears ready to drop 'public option' - Yahoo! News
    What is worse is, when they do so they are going to act like it is no big deal, and that the public option was just a small part of their healthcare reform initiative. This off course is total bullshit and they would only ascert this because they think the American public is stupid and that we do not know that the "public option" is the heart and soul of liberal healthcare reform. He knows he has lost and he will try to pass this off as a non-issue as he will most likely have to accept a bi-partisan proposal of a non-profit/co-operative option. And when he does, he will boldly declare "victory". But by then, we will all know he is full of shit.


    2. Obama has a falling approval rating, now at 47%.
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ministration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
    This is just futher proof that you can fake a speech, you can fake poise, you can fake brilliance, but you cant fake leadership. Wow, only 8 months in and Obama has managed to squander most of his political capitol on attempting to shove his bullshit socialists garbage down the throats of a citizenry that is firmly center/right, and always has been.

    Right after the election last Fall, i wrote on here that if Obama's approval rating didnt drop below 40% by the end of his first year in office, I'd never appear at LPSG again. Well, since then he has dropped 27 points and only has 7 points left to go. Unless something dramatic changes, it looks like im gonna be here a while.

    I dont mean to gloat but....no....hell yeah i do!!! Your boy is going down in flames and he has no way out. What... is he gonna win the hearts and minds of middle america back by granting amnesty to 30 million mexicans???LOLOLOOLOLOLOLOl. Is he gonna win them back by signing cap and trade legislation which would be the largest tax increase on the middle class in U.S. history???LOLOLOLOLOLOLOl. Is he going to win them back by continuing to send Troops into afghanistan???LOLOLOLOLLOL. Is he planning on winning them back by sitting all by himself at the negotiating table while Iran Builds its first Nuke?LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

    He has no way out. He is done. The only thing he can do is run to the center as fast as he can. And he will. But it will only help a little, he'll still be a one termer. :)

    The removal of the public option from healthcare reform means the beginning of the end for Obama's liberal agenda. If you were hoping for a little something like gay marriage legislation anytime soon, dont hold your breath, It aint Gonna happen. Start campaigning for Hillary in 2016.

    If i'm wrong about all this then i fully expect you libs to throw it back in my face, and rightfully so. But as for now...yeah...I think I'll gloat a little.
     
  2. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    the more things "change" , ...
     
  3. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Congratulations. All the seven-figure earners at the lobbys, PR firms, insurance, and drug companies are going to toasting, "here's to the useful idiots," for putting money in their pockets while clinking their martini glasses out in the Hamptons this weekend.

    This country has no idea how hard it's screwing itself nor to what effect. A health care system ranked 37th in the world, 72nd in effectiveness, while managing to be the second most expensive. That's something worth protecting at the expense of your health and that of your family .... oh yeah....

    "Keep government out of Medicare," indeed.

    Just watch what's going to happen because I can guarantee you that within 12 years this country will be begging the government for a single payer or hybrid system.
     
    #3 jason_els, Aug 16, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
  4. mynameisnobody

    mynameisnobody New Member

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    Although in historical terms that is a pretty poor number for any President at this point in his term, it remains a mystery why it isn't lower. His performance in office has been so feeble on so many fronts that he's making Carter look like a decisive leader. So mathematically it looks like O. has a core group of supporters who wouldn't indicate any sort of disapproval even if he read the Communist Manifesto out loud at his next press appearance. Just how large that core group is, we can't say just yet.
     
  5. B_24065

    B_24065 New Member

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    We are seeing this blow up in their faces because Liberals and Democrats made one fatal miscalculation concerning the election of Barack Hussein Obama. That was interpreting his election as a mandate from the American people to take this nation in a radically different direction toward european type socialism rather than what it truly was, a harsh indictment on George W. Bush's handling of the Iraq war and the misplaced blame of the sub-prime mortgage collapse. The truth is, the vast majority of the American people view themselves as center/right. What is stunning here is how the abandonment of the public option may most likely signal the beginning of Obama's dramatic fall. It's gonna be ugly.
     
  6. sargon20

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    You forgot to add the useful idiots over at Faux News together with Glen Beck who engaged in a willful campaign of flat out lies. They must have taken a page from Bush/Cheney on how to sucker the world into a 2 trillion dollar war based on lies and disinformation.



    For sure we will be. But all the lessons learned will be lost. We seem incapable of learning from the past. The same tactics used to doom HillaryCare are being deployed again and it must be a fantastic surprise to the architects that it still works.

    False &#8216;Death Panel&#8217; Rumor Has Some Familiar Roots

    Every year employers are passing more and more of the cost of health care to employees and more and more are simply dropping coverage. Why can every industrial country in the world figured out how to do this and the US can't? If it can spend $322 million for one F-22 why I ask can't it figure out how to provide health care. It's simply obscene.

    And it's no surprise willing xenophobic tools like yourself keep invoking his middle name. We all know he's an anti-American socialist Arab terrorist that is not a natural born citizen. So why keep it up? The mistake he made is trying to appease and work with Republicans. They and you have but one goal and that is to see him fail.

    The amazing thing is if the neos had their way Medicare and Medicaid would be dismantled and the elderly and the poor would be forced to figure it out on their own. If they die on the streets well we would pay/be taxed to have them swept away.
     
    #6 sargon20, Aug 16, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
  7. b.c.

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    Yep. You'd think anyone with even HALF a brain would ask themself why is the healthcare industry spending so much money against healthcare reform and WHY is the U.S. Chamber of Commerce against the bill?

    I mean they weren't against the corporate bailouts and the bailouts of savings and loans. And where the fuck was their voice when gas was topping FIVE dollars a gallon while Exxon continually posted 300 billion in profits per QUARTER??

    Where the fuck were they then?

    Doesn't take a genius to figure that if the healthcare industry and the C of Commerce are spending big bucks and making a LOT of noise AGAINST something, then it must be something GOOD for "J. Q. Public".

    The failure of which only an asshole would "gloat" about, in my opinion.
     
  8. SpeedoGuy

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    I can remember in the aftermath of the failure of health care reform in the Clinton years our honorable senator from Oregon, Bob Packwood, head of the Senate Finance Committee, reportedly gloated: "We killed health care reform. Now we need to make sure our fingerprints aren't on it."

    Today the Reps won't even bother with the diguise.

    Dismantled along with the entire New Deal.
     
  9. B_24065

    B_24065 New Member

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    FYI Sargon20, The prefix "Neo" as in "neo-con" refers to a departure in traditional conservative views concerning foreign policy, and in particular the U.S's role, or lack thereof, in nation building. Opposition to Govt run Healthcare or any socialized domestic program is a hallmark of "Conservatism" and has nothing at all to do with "neoconservatism". But by all means, if you wish to continue to prove yourself an idiot, go right ahead.
     
  10. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    The problem with dictionary definitions is that they're not set in cement. Good dictionaries change definitions and add to their content as new terms appear and old ones change.

    Today, neocon symbolizes more than just foreign policy. It encompasses moral, fiscal, and social welfare conservatism as embodied in the Reagan administration and contrasted by the traditional Goldwater conservatism which has now been taken-up largely by libertarians.
     
  11. sargon20

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    You gotta hand it to Bush he tried and it was yet another Bush failure. He did try to undo Social Security and hand it over to Wall Street. So easy to forget the Reign of Error during his presidency. Can you imagine if he had succeeded?
     
  12. B_24065

    B_24065 New Member

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    Jason, I respect your posts and your tone so Im not going to say anything other than i disagree with your definition. "Neocon" has traditionally been understood as a new doctrine of unilateralism coming out of the traditionan conservative camp post 60's-70's. My point to Sargon is that Neoconservatism has nothing to say concerning medicare or Obamacare. The same old Goldwater conservatives then would be just as opposed to Obamacare as conservatives are today. And there are many conservatives today that would NOT consider themselves Neocons, i.e. Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan, etc. And there are noted Liberals today who are Neoconservative such as Christopher Hitchens, Joe Lieberman, and some would argue, Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden.
     
    #12 B_24065, Aug 17, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2009
  13. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Call me inane and stupid but I think the entire philosophy of current American conservatism is reflected in the aftermath of Katrina. I recall sitting in a hotel bar in Bermuda with a bunch of other Americans watching Katrina mow down the entire city and all of us were talking about how much it was going to cost to rebuild the city.

    Fast forward to now and we haven't lifted a finger. New Orleans hasn't been rebuilt to anything like its former self. The federal government essentially let the entire city, save for the relatively safe and profitable French Quarter, rot. Japan managed to rebuild Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Russians rebuilt Dresden, the Brits rebuilt Coventry and all of them did it with far fewer resources than we possess.

    "Fuck you, I've got mine," is something I hear constantly in conservative media. It's appalling but true. Years ago Faith Popcorn warned about the cocooning of Americans into enclaves as suburbanism destroyed our concept of neighborhood. She spoke of the impact this would have as prosperity rose and people increasingly felt disconnected from their fellow citizens. She warned that the growth of targeted, specialist media would allow anyone to see or hear what he or she liked and how specialization of trades and professions would help enforce this because liberal arts-based study programs in colleges would be jettisoned for exclusively specialized courses of study. Popcorn also nailed the political front as she theorized that as the US faced greater economic competition and a declining standard of living that politics would become more polarized than ever and she warned of extremist movements within the major political parties.

    I think she has one hell of a crystal ball.

    Something else to pay attention to is the economic disparity within much of America. Sociology tells us that political stability derives from a broad middle class or, at least, apparent economic equality to a large degree. It seems that wealth, poverty, and "doing OK," all love company. If the great majority of people in a society are of the same economic status, political stability tends to ensue.

    That's not happening now. Americans have lost disposable (which is different from discretionary) income in an unprecedented way over the past two years while the top .01% of earners have seen incomes soar at a rate not seen since records started being kept in 1913. While these earners also bear the brunt of income taxes, tax rates on these earners is relatively low compared to other industrialized nations. As a result, about 10% of the population of the US owns about 71% of its wealth. The top 1% controls 38%, while a staggering 40% of the country owns less than 1% of the nation's wealth.

    Now you have to wonder, given these circumstances, just what the economic interests are of these people. As you might imagine, it doesn't involve giving you any of that wealth. What it does involve is keeping the other 90% of the country happy that they're relatively, "poor but honest and hard working, pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstrap folk." It is why conservative media constantly harps on lowering taxes, demonizing unions, and denying social programs. It's why colleges and universities (whose major donors are these people) train people to be good corporate employees, not independent and liberally educated scholars. It's why businesses demand drug tests, background checks, social networking information, and make you feel privileged just to be earning enough to get by. One of the greatest coups was the development of IRAs and 401ks all based upon mutual funds. With shareholder voting out of the hands of pesky individuals, banks could buy-up huge blocs of stock and effectively allow publicly held companies free rein for the executives to do as they like so long as they make a profit.

    All the while, economic freedom and mobility in the US has dropped to the lowest rates ever seen. It is now harder to move upward in economic class than in many other (frequently labeled, "socialist,") westernized nations.

    What we are seeing is the decline of the American middle class which feasted on cheap credit, inflated housing prices, and then spent the equity on junk. We now see the resultant political polarization, federal government bail-outs of the assets held by the very richest, and a very effective propaganda campaign to get Americans to vote against their own self-interest by appealing to their relative ignorance and susceptibility to patriotic jingoism. We're going to see more of that-- a lot more. America is in decline. We will not be as rich as our parents or our grandparents. The dollar figures will look higher, but in terms of real income growth, we're stagnant while facing higher costs largely of our own making (think credit debt). As sociologists will be happy to point out, when this happens to a nation, political unrest accelerates. Bread and circuses only do so much in the face of declining economic standards. Once people figure out they're as disposable as a plastic water bottles as far as the wealth holders are concerned, they'll get angry. Right now, we've seen this in New Orleans and we're seeing it all across the rust belt. Rather than foster economic programs that lift all boats, the pols have decided just to lift those boats that keep them in office and poofy haircuts.

    The whole health care issue is perfectly representative of that. Nobody who has the money to fund such a program wants to do so. They don't need to worry about health care costs and neither do their key employees. Everyone else is disposable. This is why we do not fund re-education of those with obsolete jobs, why we do not fund basic education programs for adults, and why the poor are so glaringly disenfranchised even in places where they form the great majority of voters, why we dump the old into homes where they give their estates to a corporation only to die broke, and allow the homeless to proliferate despite the fact these people could become productive if using European models of poverty eradication.

    Do not be a fool. Learn this and then stick your head up out of the rabbit warren. Pop the blue pill, drink from the bottle that says, "drink me," and then you'll see it. It requires a vast amount of reading from the right sources (not wingnut websites) that the very rich themselves use to form policy. Once you go to the right places, talk to the right people, you'll learn pretty quickly how it all works. It's slick. It's also a phenomenally bad policy for the very rich because if the current trends continue unabated, then they'll find the proletariat knocking at their door with torches and pitchforks. That is, however, difficult to imagine for most of the very rich who have a difficult time imagining that they might be at risk of losing their wealth or even their lives in a revolution.
     
  14. sargon20

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    Ron Paul a conservative? Now that is funny. Regardless they all belong to the same ideological wing....government is the problem for everything.

    Unemployment, the fake global warming issue, regulations that are anti-jobs, regulations that are anti-growth, yada yada yada while private industry was literally sent from Jesus Christ to lift us all out of poverty. And if we need to bail them out every now and then well they deserve bailing out. But the bailouts are only for the elite, the common man gets what he deserves for being common.


    You have siezed on a key difference in the generations. The 60's - Do not ask what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. The 80-s and on 'What have you done for me lately?'

    Not appealing at all in conservative ideology. You didn't get yours because you are stupid and don't like to work. It describes the entire underpinning of conservatism. Reagan couldn't sell that ideology but he sold the proxy, the Cadillac driving welfare queen. The problem is she didn't exist like Saddam's WMD's but no matter to the benighted public and complacent media they bought it anyway.
     
    #14 sargon20, Aug 17, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2009
  15. D_Tintagel_Demondong

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    Possibly the most anti-American thing I've ever read. How pro-active of you. :rolleyes:
     
  16. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Point taken however I would argue that Goldwater et al may well have supported a public health care system because it would relieve employers of paying for catastrophic employee care. Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan are libertarians despite caucusing with the Republicans. Hitchens has denied being a neocon as much as he denies being a liberal. Lieberman would probably fit the description if I didn't believe he has no personal political bent beyond staying elected to office. As for Clinton and Biden, I think it's too soon to tell as both have openly claimed to have been misled on the Iraq War and would laugh at such a description. Now that each has a chair in the executive branch, their true colors will come out as the administration progresses.
     
  17. sargon20

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    No no 'Country First'. They wrap themselves in the flag and couldn't be more anti-American than al Qaeda.
     

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  18. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Perhaps it's my brain frying from all the chemo but it strikes me that the powers-that-be in this country, in their guise as Republicans, greatly resemble Madam Yes while everyone else are Fred and Barney. Watch it. It's a great clip.
     
  19. Industrialsize

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  20. Flashy

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    1. Gasoline never topped FIVE dollars a gallon..

    2. Exxon-Mobil never posted 300 billion dollars in profits per QUARTER

    3. It is Exxon-Mobil, not Exxon and was created by the merger of Exxon and Mobil, 10 years ago.

    Average Gasoline prices per gallon, as tracked by the department of energy topped out at $4.10 in July 2008

    Exxon-Mobil's highest ever *ANNUAL* profit, was in 2008, when it was 45.22 billion.

    in fact, Exxon-Mobil has not, in its 10 year operating history, amassed a profit anywhere near 300 billion, either per quarter, per annum and even when you add up the last 7 years worth of profits going back through 2002 FY, the total profit is 219.76 billion dollars.


    i'll assume you were being overly dramatic and not simply incredibly ignorant.
     
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