You are a regular little Pollyanna just puts me into diabetic shock reading it. W. is a dumbass and that's how history sees him now and for all eternity.
particularly enjoyed this little snippet:
"... Iraq "could be one of the great achievements of this administration," boasted Vice President Joe Biden to CNN's Larry King last month. Next we'll hear how we owe the Marshall Plan and the Panama Canal to the Obama administration. ..."
Bush's vindication by the success of democracy in Iraq had always been a question I had posed (not that I'm a fan of his)
for any future in the Middle East, other than the coming obliteration I see, Iraq's ambitions must curtailed
that there can be a possibility of a civilized and enlightened Middle East we can see the example Lebanon was becoming; under Israeli bombardment and Islamic radicalization, we can see how easily that process can be halted
Only if the dead Americans are somehow brought back to life, and the $2trillion+ he blew over there is returned to the bank.
Which accomplishes what for the American people?The prospect of having a democracy and a friend in that region (in addition to Isr) is a substantial and unprecedented accomplishment.
Which accomplishes what for the American people?
Something tells me that actually being a man and keeping his word (catching OBL) would have been more effective, quicker acting, and be accomplished for vastly less expanse in lives and money.
I do believe we have friendly relations with several nations besides Israel in the region. And though there are no democracies in the purest sense, and Israel is not perfect in that regard either, nations like Jordan and Turkey are moving in that direction all on their own. Several other states have hybrid aspects of democracy at present, and the expectation is that they will evolve naturally to be more democratic over time.The prospect of having a democracy and a friend in that region (in addition to Isr) is a substantial and unprecedented accomplishment.
Historically speaking, I don't think we've had great success in the realm of nation building and imposing democracy, especially by killing people and blowing things up. We'll just have to wait and see if this time is different and how significant it is in the long term. Consider this predominant theory of why there are is an absence of democratic rule in the region:However, a democracy in the Middle East (aside from Isreal) is a significant diplomatic and strategic development in that region. Remarkably significant.
It is a huge advantage for the U.S. and her allies everywhere.
No, you can't change history. However, you can hold people accountable for their actions in shaping history, actions which in this case were despicable and criminal, with horrendous and far reaching consequences: The number of innocent Iraquis killed, easily over 100,000, destruction of homes, facilities and infrastructure, the miserable living conditions the population was subjected to for years afterward, the recruiting tools provided to future terrorists, etc. The serious damage done to U.S. standing internationally, strained relations between the U.S. and much of the world, even with traditional allies. The rancor and division magnified domestically, erosion of civil liberties, monumental debt accrued from this exercise ($2-4 trillion), collateral damage to the economy, and on and on.However, you can't change history. The lives, sadly, are lost and the money spent.
I don't advocate assassination. However, I am hopeful that the Iranians, who are among the most sophisticated educated secularly minded and intelligent people in the region, will ultimately be successful in overthrowing the theocrats who have ruled for 30+ years. Friendly relations between Iraq, Iran and other nations in the region could do more to bring stability there than anything we could ever dream of doing, IMHO.The democratization of Iraq - combined with the impending assassination of Ahmadinejad - could instill some semblance of peace to that volatile, religious wasteland of a region.
Keeping fingers crossed...
:biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1:You stold my thunder;Hey, currently Viet Nam is a great place for 'Mericuhns to enjoy safe and adventuresome travel. It does not mean that the Viet Nam war was "a good idea." I hope Irak does become stable, but don't ask me do hold my breath with Pollyanna optimism.
The argument being, I take it, that a complete loon's determination to continue his daddy's war by basing it upon an outright and utter lie might yet find justification if, years and countless lives later, after the devestation of families, homes, and infrastructure, some semblance of a democracy might be the end product....
Is that the premise?
The argument being, I take it, that a complete loon's determination to continue his daddy's war by basing it upon an outright and utter lie might yet find justification if, years and countless lives later, after the devestation of families, homes, and infrastructure, some semblance of a democracy might be the end product....
Is that the premise?
You're reading my mind.
I hope that it does happen, the democracy that is. And I hope W. gets the credit he deserves, assuming that when it happens his actions did impact it enough to matter. I also hope that if that is the case, whatever administration is in charge at the time doesn't get it all either. Sadly I don't see the credit getting parceled out fairly in this country. Fringes on both sides will be trying to steal the glory for their guys, and they will be the two loudest voices.