I don't think the answer is yes, but this is good to read
- Thread starter Qua
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justasimpleguy
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There will be no redemption here. We armed Saddam before Bush the Elder went after him. We propped him up. The CIA trained him to survive. And then we got pissed when he wouldn't cooperate and started killing his citizens.
Destroying the monsters we create does not get the US a gold star, k?
Destroying the monsters we create does not get the US a gold star, k?
- Qua,
I once let a squirrel into my parents' house when I was five. Chasing it out was a lot of fun, I must say. Luckily no one died in the process, and the material costs were next to nothing, though he did knock over some precariously placed crap.
As an aside, squirrels loose in your house are fucking hilarious. If you want some chaos give it a try. I know, I'm strange.
I feel I was duped with the WMD argument but I didn't think that was the only reason to invade Iraq.
Obama was against the war because he comes from a liberation theology perspective. If Bush had gone in prepared to win the war and with numbers for a sustainable occupation Obama would have been wrong.
As a matter of fact he remains wrong. We were enforcing no-fly-zones and an economic embargo on Iraq. These policies hurt the Iraqi people and did not loosen the grip of Saddam on his country. These policies in fact damaged our prestige and good will with Muslims in the Middle-East. We had three choices:
1) Keep up our policies indefinitely at great monetary and political cost.
2) Walk away from the situation and leave Saddam to his own devices.
3) Invade and restore Iraq from rogue state classification
The no fly zones were deemed illegal and they were going to be sunsetted. Saddam, as his debriefer has recently stated on national television, was waiting for the pressure to subside and was going to return to gathering WMD's. His policies included various tactics that destabilized the world. Such as sending money to the family members of suicide bombers in Israel. His demonic sons were going to inherit the power at some point. Leaving the region with decades of a hellish reality.
We had to invade. We invaded poorly prepared and that is our disgrace.
Obama was against the war because he comes from a liberation theology perspective. If Bush had gone in prepared to win the war and with numbers for a sustainable occupation Obama would have been wrong.
As a matter of fact he remains wrong. We were enforcing no-fly-zones and an economic embargo on Iraq. These policies hurt the Iraqi people and did not loosen the grip of Saddam on his country. These policies in fact damaged our prestige and good will with Muslims in the Middle-East. We had three choices:
1) Keep up our policies indefinitely at great monetary and political cost.
2) Walk away from the situation and leave Saddam to his own devices.
3) Invade and restore Iraq from rogue state classification
The no fly zones were deemed illegal and they were going to be sunsetted. Saddam, as his debriefer has recently stated on national television, was waiting for the pressure to subside and was going to return to gathering WMD's. His policies included various tactics that destabilized the world. Such as sending money to the family members of suicide bombers in Israel. His demonic sons were going to inherit the power at some point. Leaving the region with decades of a hellish reality.
We had to invade. We invaded poorly prepared and that is our disgrace.
The examples of voting in Iraq and Iran probably contributed to the recent Iranian popular movement for greater democracy.
As probably did Obama's Cairo speech. But he didn't step up in the end.
As probably did Obama's Cairo speech. But he didn't step up in the end.
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If Iraq and Iran were left to their own devices, we would have (and do have but lessened) a nuclear arms race in the Middle East. For Obama wanting to contain nuclear proliferation it sure is funny he was so against the war.
Next nuclear power - Saudi Arabia. They have the money and the connections. How about a nuclear armed Abu Dhabi or Bharain all terrified the Persians are about to cross the Arabian (or is that Persian Gulf?).
For better or worse the ENTIRE world depends on the energy flowing out of that region. It needed to be stabilized.
Next nuclear power - Saudi Arabia. They have the money and the connections. How about a nuclear armed Abu Dhabi or Bharain all terrified the Persians are about to cross the Arabian (or is that Persian Gulf?).
For better or worse the ENTIRE world depends on the energy flowing out of that region. It needed to be stabilized.
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Obama (and Dems) being against the war pre-election probably drove the Iraqi govt. to shape up and realize that there was an end to the American presence.
That is how the loyal opposition contributes, albeit unknowingly.
That is how the loyal opposition contributes, albeit unknowingly.
If it wasn't for loyal opposition from Reps we'd today have the most socialized medicine law imaginable. Concessions have forced the Dem package more to the center but it builds in a single payer eventuality, just like Medicaid-Medicare did.
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Yes, I hope he gets the credit he deserves. If that happens to be 0 credit, so be it. I'm not giving any value to what he deserves, just that he gets it. Credit can be negative to of course, if that makes you happy. :tongue: And I hate to break it to you but bringing democracy to a Middle Eastern country would be political glory in this country. Which ever party can claim that has a huge advantage in the next elections, and that's what most politicians seem to care about, getting picked for the team. Playing the game well is an after thought it seems like.
Only the Reps can claim Iraq. It goes to show that if the Dems were anti-American by being insanely political they'd be sabotaging Iraq. They aren't. Imagine that.
Afghanistan will be credited to the Dems, good or bad.
^ My, aren't you on a little roll here. Six in a row? Talking to yourself now?
The jokes on you. You likely read them.
ok, so this debate was going well until you flamed everyone. You are an instigator sir, and last time I checked that was a violation of the TOS.
oh....please check your facts. both democrats and republicans voted for the war in Iraq.
You flatter yourself, and you are incorrect, sir.
I would say the joke's on you,
(notice the apostrophe to denote a conjunction)
but that would be redundant, as you sir are a joke.
midlifebear
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I didn't read the spiker troll's inner dialogue either. I just counted how many times his non-avatar displayed in a row being ignored (6 times).
justasimpleguy
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What stuff?
I would like to share something with y'all. I have successly progressed beyond my reliance on the ignore function. I am now able to ignore certain posters at will without the drugs. Saves money too, as I have no health care coverage, much less prescription coverage. I recommend y'all give it a try too. Not that hard really.
Well, as an avid researcher and lover of debates, I actually like to read opposing views/posts. It helps me to make more informed decisions and gives me a rather well-rounded perspective on the current state (and future) of my country & the world. I've only recently started using the ignore function because one of our beloved trolls was becoming way too outlandish. When the thread morphs into complete and utter coonery, that's where I draw the line. Besides, reading some of these posts gives me the chuckle of the day that I've come to expect from the Politics forum. :biggrin1:
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