I don't think the answer is yes, but this is good to read

Qua

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Since the US claims to be a christian god-fearing nation it's pretty clear 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'. What part of that is ambiguous?

Kill and war are not incompatible. At least for Catholicism there's a thing called just war theory (by which iraq would never have qualified, fwiw) that explains when the use of deadly force is necessary, to prevent a further loss of life usually.

It doesn't justify Iraq or most any preemptive war in the slightest, but the attitude here is so trite and wannabe cheeky it makes me want to pull a Sargon and

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz......
 
D

deleted15807

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I've often asked that question. I've asked it when the AFA said we should not only kill a Killer Whale, but also its owners. Since WHEN is murder a family value (sans Corleone's or Soprano's)? I've asked it when abortion opponents open fire and kill doctors in church. I've asked it when supposed churches stand outside a soldier's private family funeral, holding signs and chanting that dead soldiers are good. I've asked it every time a group claiming to be christian acts as anything BUT Christ-like.

More death has been caused in the name of religion than any other cause. Famine, disease, racial or ethnic hatred; none of these come close to the toll religion has claimed.

Exactly. Exactly. The commandments and standards apply to others. Hence the rabid support for the death penalty.

You'd think that you'd have Christians roll over and let themselves be murdered.:Flush::Flush::Flush:

It's crystal clear 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'. There is no ambiguity. As is 'Thou Shalt Not Lie'. Need I go on?
 
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maxcok

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"Friend" was Sargon who was quoting death stats. You're not clever enough to follow the thread's discussion?
Actually . . . it was I who quoted the statistics, Sargon merely commented. You even quoted me in your flip response. You're not even "clever enough to follow" your own posts? Seriously, whatever you're smoking, stop!!!

Since the US claims to be a christian god-fearing nation it's pretty clear 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'. What part of that is ambiguous?
Really Sargon, what exactly about "Christian Crusade" do you not understand?

Donald Rumsfeld's Holy War

God's War? Bush's Holy Warrior

"Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan." - Sarah Palin on the Iraq War quoted in the AP

A surprising alternative view from the Evangelical community:

"Despite the repeated attempts of former President George W. Bush to renege on his usage of the word “crusade” to describe the Iraq War, there are some in the evangelical community who suspected all along that for Bush and his top aides, the Iraq war was indeed a holy war. At the time, the majority of evangelicals — including myself — cheered as the president and his top aides cast the Iraq war in moralistic terms, invoking the name of God to bless the bombs dropped by U.S. planes in the initial “shock and awe” campaign.

When other Christians tried to tell us that invoking the name of God to bless the invasion of a sovereign nation was wrong, we laughed and mocked. Who in the world – other than liberals of course – actually believes that the president of the United States of America would launch a modern day crusade? (emphasis Maxcok)

It turns out that the minority was right. I was wrong. . . .

The American Church let this happen. I let this happen. May God be merciful to us and move upon our hearts to repent."

Was Iraq a Holy War? - Aaron Taylor - God's Politics Blog

Jesus, even some of them get it!
 
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B_VinylBoy

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spiker067 said:
You'd think that you'd have Christians roll over and let themselves be murdered.

It's such a tell... isn't it?
Ain't it funny how all you have to do is switch one word, and the sentence doesn't lose its initial impact. At least, to the humane it doesn't.

You'd think that you'd have Muslims roll over and let themselves be murdered.
You'd think that you'd have Buddhists roll over and let themselves be murdered.
You'd think that you'd have Jews roll over and let themselves be murdered.
You'd think that you'd have Hindus roll over and let themselves be murdered.


I'd mention the 5 letter B-word right now, but you'd just get mad and say that I'm doing it just because I'm a liberal... which, ironically, would further strengthen my argument. :rolleyes:
 
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deleted15807

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Really Sargon, what exactly about "Christian Crusade" do you not understand?

As the link says 'But as the body count rose, he decided to introduce biblical quotes'. Are they really any different than our 'enemies'. Unfortunately as usual the 'leaders' inciting holy war never ever put themselves or their families on the line for their 'holy wars'. It's always Someone Else's Child that must die. And with Bush they took it one step further someone else's money to fund the war.
 

D_Cateryke Cheesysmell

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Sorry, but holy wars are reserved for real religions with a millenium or so of gravitas behind them. Muslims, Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, and Fremen can have a holy war. The likes of Jerry Falwell and Billy Graham just don't have the theological heft to pull it off convincingly for me.
 

maxcok

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:confused: So . . . . two thousand years of Christianity doesn't fit your criteria? for what it's worth.

(not to mention a few Christian Crusades to the same general neighborhood in the Middle Ages)
 
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D_Cateryke Cheesysmell

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The first 1,600 years of it do. Anything that came after the reformation just isn't ripe yet. The splits from back around the council of Ephesus or the council of Chalcedon are fine. I don't think the orthodox church has ever invaded the holy land though, and the Assyrians were already there....
 

maxcok

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^ ^ ^
So you were serious?? Most curious and contorted, thesis. As far as distinguishing between the Roman Catholic, Orthodox and modern Christian churches are concerned, the phrase 'splitting hairs' comes to mind. It is still the Christian church, is it not, however it has progressed, evolved and divided into denominations? Not to mention you have offered no support for your unconventional argument that a religion must be of a certain age to engage in a holy Crusade. By the way, Christianity is older than Islam, which you give as an example, by more than 600 years.

Taking the broader view, the region has been fought over by various religious tribes for millenia, to borrow a term. Eight Christian crusades in all between the 1090's and 1270's alone, Evangelicals being the johnny-come-latelies to the same party. What is relevant is that the theological motivation remains constant: to claim the world for Christianity, the 'Holy Land' in particular, and most particularly Israel - this time in the final "mother of all battles". These modern Evangelicals, including Karl Rove, Geo. Bush and many others in his administration, see it as a fulfillment of Apocalytic prophesy, which they are obliged to facilitate. Which is particularly scary. And insane.
 
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B_spiker067

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Exactly. Exactly. The commandments and standards apply to others. Hence the rabid support for the death penalty.



It's crystal clear 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'. There is no ambiguity. As is 'Thou Shalt Not Lie'. Need I go on?

Thou Shalt Not Kill is more along the lines of Thou shall not murder. The Old Testament if full of legal killing. If you knew shit beyond your emoticon flush, you'd quote the New Testament, much more powerfull stuff on the subject and actually the defining text on being Christian.

But the clueless always talk like they know.
 

B_spiker067

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Actually . . . it was I who quoted the statistics, Sargon merely commented. You even quoted me in your flip response. You're not even "clever enough to follow" your own posts? Seriously, whatever you're smoking, stop!!!


Really Sargon, what exactly about "Christian Crusade" do you not understand?

Donald Rumsfeld's Holy War

God's War? Bush's Holy Warrior

"Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan." - Sarah Palin on the Iraq War quoted in the AP

A surprising alternative view from the Evangelical community:

"Despite the repeated attempts of former President George W. Bush to renege on his usage of the word “crusade” to describe the Iraq War, there are some in the evangelical community who suspected all along that for Bush and his top aides, the Iraq war was indeed a holy war. At the time, the majority of evangelicals — including myself — cheered as the president and his top aides cast the Iraq war in moralistic terms, invoking the name of God to bless the bombs dropped by U.S. planes in the initial “shock and awe” campaign.

When other Christians tried to tell us that invoking the name of God to bless the invasion of a sovereign nation was wrong, we laughed and mocked. Who in the world – other than liberals of course – actually believes that the president of the United States of America would launch a modern day crusade? (emphasis Maxcok)

It turns out that the minority was right. I was wrong. . . .

The American Church let this happen. I let this happen. May God be merciful to us and move upon our hearts to repent."

Was Iraq a Holy War? - Aaron Taylor - God's Politics Blog

Jesus, even some of them get it!

Did Sargon quote a death stat? He quoted your death stat in friendly support of your tripe.:biggrin1: Does being pedantic support your cause? What I said makes more sense than VB stretching me using "friend" as being equal to all Democrats. But he is free to insinuate himself as he sees fit.

If anybody is smoking it's you when you quote one lone smuck I never heard of as being representative of all Christians concerning this "Crusade"

Hahhahaha.

Besides Moslems crusaded into Europe long before Europe crusaded into Israel. Matter of fact Moslems crusaded all over the place.
 
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D_Cateryke Cheesysmell

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Well max, unlike you I'm not taking this thread seriously anymore. If you really think that Karl Rove believes in anything beyond his blackberry and the latest gallup poll, I am glad I'm sitting this one out.

As to the president and whatever "apocalyptic prophecy" you're talking about....
I can't actually finish that sentence because it is just too stupid.

I'd love for you to have a conservative friend read that last post of yours and tell us what they said.
 
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B_spiker067

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It's such a tell... isn't it?
Ain't it funny how all you have to do is switch one word, and the sentence doesn't lose its initial impact. At least, to the humane it doesn't.

You'd think that you'd have Muslims roll over and let themselves be murdered.
You'd think that you'd have Buddhists roll over and let themselves be murdered.
You'd think that you'd have Jews roll over and let themselves be murdered.
You'd think that you'd have Hindus roll over and let themselves be murdered.


I'd mention the 5 letter B-word right now, but you'd just get mad and say that I'm doing it just because I'm a liberal... which, ironically, would further strengthen my argument. :rolleyes:

You really do live in your own little world of logic where you read into things meaning of your choosing.

I get the effect you were going for but it is really misplaced here. Just thought you should know.
 

B_VinylBoy

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You really do live in your own little world of logic where you read into things meaning of your choosing.

No. I pay attention to context more than you pay attention to the number of strokes you give yourself before shooting your intellectually inept wad.

People like you choose to "block out" all of the other meanings in an attempt to act like you know what you're talking about. Opinions and ideologies have more than one interpretation and can be perceived as such, especially when one rehashes similar sentiments repeatedly. They are not as rigid or definitive like algebraic expressions. Certain ideologies, when repeated, eventually expose a pattern where if you pay close attention to it reveals one's true feelings.

And yours are too easy to figure out. You act like people have never seen a religiously bigoted zealot before. :rolleyes:

I get the effect you were going for but it is really misplaced here.

Not really.
You see, I'm a Christian too. Baptized at birth, however not a church going one these days for obvious reasons. Despite that, I find your deliberate misrepresentation of the Word to be asinine & iniquitous. Then again, you were the one to bring religion to the table like a fool, as if being a Christian somehow trumps humanity as a whole. Which is why you constantly make equally ignorant statements on this board that have bigoted intent, yet try so hard to deny it when it's glaringly obvious.

Trolls like you are not original. A new one, dawning the same "anonymous" avatar and similar hateful rhetoric emerges regularly around here. I'm really starting to believe that the mass majority of you bitches are a bunch of closeted masochists. Because despite having no friends or any kind of support on this board, as demonstrated by the emptiness of your profile, you talk down to everyone as if you run things and somehow know shit... and everyone knows you clearly don't. But contrary to belief, these responses that generate in retaliation to your ignorance are not because this board is full of liberals. You're just fuckin' stupid.

Think before you type next time, little boy. You're making this WAY too easy.
 

B_spiker067

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No. I pay attention to context more than you pay attention to the number of strokes you give yourself before shooting your intellectually inept wad.

People like you choose to "block out" all of the other meanings in an attempt to act like you know what you're talking about. Opinions and ideologies have more than one interpretation and can be perceived as such, especially when one rehashes similar sentiments repeatedly. They are not as rigid or definitive like algebraic expressions. Certain ideologies, when repeated, eventually expose a pattern where if you pay close attention to it reveals one's true feelings.

And yours are too easy to figure out. You act like people have never seen a religiously bigoted zealot before. :rolleyes:



Not really.
You see, I'm a Christian too. Baptized at birth, however not a church going one these days for obvious reasons. Despite that, I find your deliberate misrepresentation of the Word to be asinine & iniquitous. Then again, you were the one to bring religion to the table like a fool, as if being a Christian somehow trumps humanity as a whole. Which is why you constantly make equally ignorant statements on this board that have bigoted intent, yet try so hard to deny it when it's glaringly obvious.

Trolls like you are not original. A new one, dawning the same "anonymous" avatar and similar hateful rhetoric emerges regularly around here. I'm really starting to believe that the mass majority of you bitches are a bunch of closeted masochists. Because despite having no friends or any kind of support on this board, as demonstrated by the emptiness of your profile, you talk down to everyone as if you run things and somehow know shit... and everyone knows you clearly don't. But contrary to belief, these responses that generate in retaliation to your ignorance are not because this board is full of liberals. You're just fuckin' stupid.

Think before you type next time, little boy. You're making this WAY too easy.

To put it bluntly you're out of control. You have created this reality of yours out of whole cloth. Christianity was not brought up by me but by someone else. I simply asked that person if he expected a Christian to roll over and die when complying with the Bible's "Thou shall not kill" (much like Quakers, Shakers, and religious conscientious objectors in general). It would have created a good discussion. And I have made no quoted Bible references let alone made any misrepresentation of them.

You've jumped to conclusions AGAIN. You as much as admit to them when you say I fit a pattern that you identify so very easily -

They are not as rigid or definitive like algebraic expressions. Certain ideologies, when repeated, eventually expose a pattern where if you pay close attention to it reveals one's true feelings.

You must be a mind reader:rolleyes:

[edit - a reasonable person would see that I am generally civil and my initiating post in (or starting) a thread is itself reasonable. After a while though the histrionic response gets tiresome and I identify that essentially with stupidity and say so. YOU VB are the achiral to whatever conservative you would rail against here on this forum; though you may not appreciate that fact. I will say though that in some ways your rhetoric has improved since you first posted here. LPSG has been good for you.]
 
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B_VinylBoy

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To put it bluntly you're out of control. You have created this reality of yours out of whole cloth. Christianity was not brought up by me but by someone else. I simply asked that person if he expected a Christian to roll over and die when complying with the Bible's "Thou shall not kill" (much like Quakers, Shakers, and religious conscientious objectors in general). It would have created a good discussion. And I have made no quoted Bible references let alone made any misrepresentation of them.

You've jumped to conclusions AGAIN. You as much as admit to them when you say I fit a pattern that you identify so very easily -

Apparently you don't remember what you type as soon as you make a new post. I didn't.

You also adhered to a belief that the United States has somehow claimed to be a "christian god-fearing nation". Gee, that's news to me. When did Christianity win all of a sudden? Who officially declared it? Or to be more precisely, when did 300 Million people come to accept Christianity as the official religious doctrine that now polices "the nation"? I sure hope all of the Synagogues and Mosques got the message that the Rapture happened and set the record straight once and for all. :rolleyes:

Also, you don't think people weren't paying attention when you responded to Sargon's statements about "Thou Shall Not Kill"? You failed it miserably. In religion that you tout, one would forgive their enemies and not seek retaliation. The fact that you've referred to Iraqi as the ones lacking morality further cements your religious bigotry, as if murdering for any religious causes or beliefs is somehow justified.

You must be a mind reader.

No... all I have to do is read between the lines of the bullshit you bellow. Like the song lyric suggests, it ain't hard to tell.
 

B_spiker067

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@VB

To the best of my recollection/review, in this thread, Sargon said this:

Since the US claims to be a christian god-fearing nation it's pretty clear 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'. What part of that is ambiguous?

In this thread I have not typed 'christian god-fearing nation'. Now put the pipe down and back away.
 
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maxcok

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Thou Shalt Not Kill is more along the lines of Thou shall not murder. The Old Testament if full of legal killing. If you knew shit beyond your emoticon flush, you'd quote the New Testament, much more powerfull stuff on the subject and actually the defining text on being Christian.

But the clueless always talk like they know.
Wow, you really are a spinner, aren't you?

You want New Testament quotes, huh? How bout this one:

"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." - Matthew 5:9

or this one:

"You have heard that it was said of them of old, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger at the judgment" - Matthew 5:21

I like old Matt, don't you? Betcha didn't know Jesus said that. Want more?

Did Sargon quote a death stat? He quoted your death stat in friendly support of your tripe.:biggrin1:

Are you dizzy yet?

Does being pedantic support your cause?

Does being marginally literate make you think I'm pedantic?

If anybody is smoking it's you when you quote one lone smuck I never heard of as being representative of all Christians concerning this "Crusade"

mmm . . . I literally said "surprising . . . some of them get it". Have another hit of that shit.

Hahhahaha.

I'm betting if I could hear it, that would be the most maniacal laughter ever.

Besides Moslems crusaded into Europe long before Europe crusaded into Israel. Matter of fact Moslems crusaded all over the place.

I realize you are deficient in history, as in so many other things, and I realize you do not understand the meaning of the word 'crusade', but here's a tip - there are actual dictionaries you can consult online if you don't own one of them old fashioned ones.

But then I also realize you are psychotic, so I guess it's a moot point.

Hey crazy obnoxious troll, didn't you make a dramatic exit over a year ago? Why are you still here making an utter fool of yourself?
 
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B_spiker067

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Dude, you're off the deep end. I'm done with you.

Another hate-filled whacked-out hypocritical religious zealot. Just what we need in the world.

As if your incoherence , extreme vitriol and general nastiness weren't enough.

Here's a tip for the future. Don't ever challenge a Southern boy to quote the Bible.

By the way, fine example of a Christian there. Bet you make your mama proud.

Seriously, what are you doing trolling a big cock site? And when are you leaving like you said?

Hasta la vista, crazy troll.


:cool:

You absolutely have no bounds. I know what the 10 commandments are. I know what the 6th one means. I know that the New Testament has the quotes you maroon. It is why I said the New Testament has the more powerful quotes on the subject (i.e. leaving no ambiguity in the intent concerning not killing fellow humans).

And only a maroon would quote back to me as if he discovered something and was rubbing my nose in it. YOU probably googled it for crying out loud.

Here chew on this: What does 'Thou shall not kill' in the Ten Commandments MEAN?
 

B_spiker067

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I realize you are deficient in history, as in so many other things, and I realize you do not understand the meaning of the word 'crusade', but here's a tip - there are actual dictionaries you can consult online if you don't own one of them old fashioned ones.

Islam invaded Christian Spain in 711 and forayed into Christian France. The Crusades to Palestine were begun in 1095.

I used Crusading as a euphemism for what Moslems did long before what Christians did to erase bizarre notions that somehow Christians have been in some manner abusing innocent Moslems. That moslems didn't invade others for religious purposes.

I'm sorry that the liberties I took using the word crusade offended your sensibilities when it comes to the dictionary.
 
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