I don't understand why it is any other countries business

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by B_sugarandspice, Feb 19, 2008.

  1. B_sugarandspice

    B_sugarandspice New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    903
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    DC
    if another country is a "democracy".


    It seems controlling and wrong that some countries try to force other countries to do things one way.

    What does it matter if one country uses democracy and the other one socialism and communism?

    I have heard people joke, " vote or we'll kill you"

    I have heard from people from some countries who are very oppressed by the government.
    I don't understand all the hoopla about Cuba.
    Isn't it bigoted to try to tell them how to run their country?
    wtf?
    I don't understand.
    Please explain this stuff to me.

    All I have found is political propaganda for each side and no unbiased and factual explanations.
     
  2. frizzle

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,076
    Likes Received:
    3
    Certain countries have a duty or a responsibility to protect others for the good of their citizens, or at least that's what we're told. Reality is much different.
     
  3. dong20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    6,130
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    The grey country
    It usually is. The same applies even if the other country isn't a democracy.

    It may matter to the people who live under regimes that suppress or ignore rights we take for granted (such as this). It's all relative of course.

    I've also seen and deadly serious - "Vote and we'll kill you" (and your family).

    Politics is propaganda.

    Cuba is a case in point (as Kosovo is another), Castro did tremendous things early on but like many (most) dictators he lost touch and used repression and violence to hold on to power. In the grand scheme of such things he was a pussy, which is a sad statement.

    Cuba has been a thorn in the side of US politics longer that I've been alive, I don't see that changing any day soon, but Fidel's imminent departure provides a potential window for Cubans to improve their lot.

    It's an emotive subject for many in the US. I've no personal political stake in that sense though I made (and retain) some Cuban friends from the few visits I've made there.

    Like most things, usually it comes down to money (and political influence), friendly Governments mean more trade...etc. Using underhand illegal and immoral tactics to ensure regimes were friendly or compliant (or, during the cold war merely being hostile to one's enemy) was de riguer foreign policy. This was done regardless of the atrocities committed by the leaders of many such regimes, especially those in Africa and South/Central America.

    Most countries that could do this, did it. The US perhaps more than most but only because they had the most money, and thus the most to lose.

    Despite the fuzzy speeches about spreading freedom and democracy, foreign policy is rarely if ever altruistic. Once that's understood, the rest falls into place.
     
  4. B_NineInchCock_160IQ

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,378
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    where the sun never sets
    Some people really shouldn't by voting anyway.
     
  5. Gonzo3

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,146
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    World wide dudes ,world wide
    .........................Down with democracy,when we get it.
     
  6. B_Italian1

    B_Italian1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,784
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United Steaks
    Don't you want Cubans to have more freedom? Castro stepping aside is a move in the right direction, but passing his dictatorship onto his brother may not do much if he's a clone of Fidel. Cuba is not oppressed as some other countries, but the people deserve better. No, we can't force democracy on any country, but we can hope that more democracy will provide for more peace and better living for those who are oppressed. It's ultimately up to them what to decide what to do.
     
  7. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    8,498
    Likes Received:
    18

    To quote Madea, "That girl is dumb as hell."
     
  8. Bbucko

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    7,413
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sunny SoFla
    It all comes down to civil liberties: Democracies do the best job (though hardly the perfect job) of ensuring free speech, freedom of (and from) religion, the right to assemble and protest, the right to own property...the list is endless.

    Pushing other societies into a democratic cookie-cutter, however, is hardly the right answer. You need only look at Russia since Gorbachev left to see that, without a strong tradition of protected civil liberties, democracy in and of itself is meaningless.
     
  9. Drifterwood

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    15,725
    Likes Received:
    386
    Location:
    Fingringhoe (GB)
    I spend quite a lot of time in countries where "people" do not have a vote. That does not mean of course that people do not have influence or a say in how things are.

    I am quite happy to be corrected, but i am under the impression that Cuba has a higher life expectancy, better education levels, lower infant mortality rates, and better health provision than it's neighbour, the USA. If you were to be cynical, you might say that the US did not appreciate this.

    However, a lack of choice does seem to lead to corruption of all things, as it did in the previous administration in Cuba.

    It is the big question. Does democracy really deliver to all the citizens all the time? I tend to see that the bottom 20% get shat on in first world countries. They have probably worked out what percentage have to be unhappy to cause a revolt and it is certainly more than 20%.

    Maybe all political systems are just about what percentage of what group gets shat on.

    Read Animal Farm SnS.
     
  10. DC_DEEP

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    9,029
    Likes Received:
    12
    It's pretty simple, really. If we try to force our government on them, it's "democracy for the good of the world and in the name of jesus."

    If they try to force their government on us, they're evil terr-rists.

    If we invade their country, we're freedom fighters.

    If they try to invade our country, they're evil commie terr-rists.
     
  11. D_golden parachute

    D_golden parachute New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2007
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is why most people hate America
     
  12. simcha

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Over The Rainbow
    Oh, my. When did they let you out of the Baltimore Zoo? Was it Visitor's Day?

    I agree NIC, some people shouldn't be allowed to vote.
     
  13. B_sugarandspice

    B_sugarandspice New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    903
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    DC
    ^fuck off fatass



    Now, I think it's crap that China's policies are overlooked so we can buy their cheap stuff at Walmart but there is the embargo on Cuba. We don't trade with Cuba just because of their politics but China is ok ?
    I hate it.
    I hate unfair policies .
    ( I googled "embargo" and I remembered the use of it correctly-woo hoo!)
     
  14. SpeedoGuy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    4,229
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    For generations the very loud Cuban exile community living in the US, along with the US government, has been telling me to hate and shun Cuba like no other country. I'm still trying to figure out why because I don't seem to have a personal stake in this either.

    The US even has better relations with Viet Nam, of all places.
     
  15. simcha

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Over The Rainbow
    Girlie, are you chewing gum? Remember that you can't type and chew gum at the same time. That would occupy both of your brain cells. Remember you need one brain cell unoccupied so that it can resuscitate the other one that is exerting the effort it takes to function.

    And congratulations on learning how to use google to be able to use the word, "embargo" correctly. Now you might be able to move from the Rodent House to the Chimpanzee House.
     
  16. B_sugarandspice

    B_sugarandspice New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    903
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    DC
    I lived in Miami and other places in South Florida so I heard things from Cubans that I met but not information on specific issues.

    I just heard that they have very limited availability of shoes and the right sizes . I met a surgeon who operated on bunions in Cuba because they couldn't always wear good fitting shoes .They were very limited because of the government or something.
     
  17. Bbucko

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    7,413
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sunny SoFla
    Ah yes...almost fifty years of enmity between Cuba and the US is caused by its dearth of properly fitting footwear.

    Where is SpoiledPrincess when we need her?
     
  18. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    14,610
    Likes Received:
    5
    Maybe she's just making a general point about the lack of availability of consumer goods that we take for granted.
     
  19. simcha

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Over The Rainbow
    I think you're being overly kind.

    Back in Chicago we had a name for someone like her. I think that name was "Bimbo."
     
  20. dong20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    6,130
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    The grey country
    I've not been in Cuba since 1999 and while I don't remember the footwear situation there were shortages of a wide range of things; everyday stuff like soap, toothpaste etc was almost impossible to buy in 'Cuban 'shops. Of course there was (and presumably still is) a two tier shopping system where such things could be found, at a cost of course. That was back in the days where the use of US Dollars was legal, and useful.

    One thing there was never any shortage of however, was smiles and helping hands. Oh, and his 5 hour speeches on every channel...and I thought TV here was boring.:rolleyes:

    I'm tempted to go back for a short visit to see what's changed - once Fidel has hung up his hat of course. Havana Vieja late on the weekends...
     
Draft saved Draft deleted