I got circumcised today

TLCTugger

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^^ Don't forget the unnamed others here who promote circumcision for everyone ^^

They are unamed because I don't know of any :rolleyes:. Do you?

Are you saying NO SUCH PEOPLE exist?

I don't know if they have accounts here or not, but I certainly could name about a half-dozen people I encounter regularly. I won't because it's simply not cool and probably against forum rules to call people out like that, and I don't know their IDs, only their real names.

-Ron Low (my real name)
 

TLCTugger

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I can't stand hearing guys complain over and over about having the most sensitive part of their body stolen from them. For fuck sake, get a life!

Would you tell an FGM victim who's lost far fewer pleasure-receptive nerve endings than I have to get a life?

People with amputations that they didn't consent to have a right to be pissed. They also have a right to not care, fine. But don't pretend it hasn't changed your sexual experience.

-Ron
 

TLCTugger

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One can oppose routine infant circumcision and fully support the right of an adult to make an decision about a body part upon knowing the full range of options, which in this case includes circumcision.

Absolutely. One would hope that such a person whose symptoms were alleviated does not then turn around and start advocating cutting the non-consenting just in case they were to have similar symptoms.

One can also hope that all such intact men considering amputation were apprised of non-surgical remedies and non-amputating surgical options before jumping to the amputation. In the US, the options are not always understood by cut-at-birth medical folk whose medical anatomy texts may have omitted the foreskin.

-Ron
 

B_thickjohnny

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You have your issues, Ron but your anger at being cut at birth ends where another adult's choice to be circumcised begins. Plain and simple. You're completely out of line calling an adult circumcision or any circumcision an amputation or mutilation. You're sounding more like an anti circ nazi on a mission than a rational individual. These guys are dealing with their legitimate foreskin problems their way and you're dealing with yours your way. Live and let live.

Insofar as my dick is concerned, you have no idea and more specifically no right to say what I have or have not experienced. You simply don't know!
 
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deleted15807

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^^ Don't forget the unnamed others here who promote circumcision for everyone ^^



Are you saying NO SUCH PEOPLE exist?

I don't know if they have accounts here or not, but I certainly could name about a half-dozen people I encounter regularly. I won't because it's simply not cool and probably against forum rules to call people out like that, and I don't know their IDs, only their real names.

-Ron Low (my real name)

It is not against forum rules for you to post names of members who have said certain things. It's done daily in the politics forum with links to what members have said. I want to know who advocates and encourages members to get circumcised.

Would you tell an FGM victim who's lost far fewer pleasure-receptive nerve endings than I have to get a life?

People with amputations that they didn't consent to have a right to be pissed. They also have a right to not care, fine. But don't pretend it hasn't changed your sexual experience.

-Ron

All unproven. No study, no scientific board, not a single medical board has said male circumcision affects sexual functioning. I want to know why you 'intactivists' aren't hanging out in the http://www.lpsg.org/116001-circumcision-as-an-adult.html telling the many guys there who say they notice no difference or actual increased pleasure. Why aren't you there collecting case studies for your cause? They ought to be the single best resource to prove your point of lost sensation. Alas they aren't. Are they?
 

B_dxjnorto

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i just felt this needs to be said:
billions of men live happy, healthy productive lives with no foreskin at all. don't get me wrong, i'm not really for ric either, but i hate it when people make it look like being cut makes you miserable and unhealthy
Billions is an unlikely number as world population stands somewhere north of 6.7 billion today. About 49% are men, and the overwhelming majority are living with the penises they were born with.

I do believe you are well-intentioned, and do understand your point. But what is insidious and unhelpful is when well-intentioned people try to make it seem like RIC is okay.
 

B_Bonky

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This discussion is meaningless unless people start posting links to studies showing that circumcision or non-circumcision somehow hurts infants or others.

All else is just meaningless speculation. The only definitive studies I've heard of re circ is in regard to health: it lowers the risk of penile cancer and the risks of some STDs.

I will post those when I get back from Easter.
 

darkbond007

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All unproven. No study, no scientific board, not a single medical board has said male circumcision affects sexual functioning. I want to know why you 'intactivists' aren't hanging out in the circumcision as an adult the many guys there who say they notice no difference or actual increased pleasure. Why aren't you there collecting case studies for your cause? They ought to be the single best resource to prove your point of lost sensation. Alas they aren't. Are they?

Well my situation was where I had phimosis. Tried the steroid it didnt help and I do not have the patience to stretch so I got cut. I have had sex on both sides and I enjoyed sex more after getting cut.

Mainly because the skin would never roll back I never got the direct contact from a girl, it would be like having a condom on and seeing as at the time I was actively using a condom it felt like 2. Now its much different. I enjoy sex much more, there is no discomfort in the skin either.

Throwing words around like amputation and mutilation is ludicrous to me.
 

B_dxjnorto

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Well my situation was where I had phimosis. Tried the steroid it didnt help and I do not have the patience to stretch so I got cut. I have had sex on both sides and I enjoyed sex more after getting cut.
Darkbond, intactivists are not against adults getting cut. You had a medical problem and you are happy with your surgical outcome. But again, people extrapolate your experience to saying that RIC is okay. True phimosis is around 1 or 2% of the population. RIC is obviously not a medical treatment because the baby has just been born and (with any luck at all) is in its natural state of health and well-being.
 

Box_Man

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Billions is an unlikely number as world population stands somewhere north of 6.7 billion today. About 49% are men, and the overwhelming majority are living with the penises they were born with.

I do believe you are well-intentioned, and do understand your point. But what is insidious and unhelpful is when well-intentioned people try to make it seem like RIC is okay.

what i'd like you to do, is go back, and tell me where i said RIC is ok. go. do it. whats that? you can't? oh that might be because I NEVER SAID IT!

i mean seriously. didn't say it, won't say it.

and you know what my point is. its that you keep wording things in such a ridiculous way that
make it seem like i should be going over to my parents house and shooting them for having it done to me. you basicly say that i should be unhappy and dwell on something that happened 20 years ago that i don't really have control over cause it already happened. you make it seem like its a fate worse than death and doing that is just as bad as the people who do RIC for no reason in the first place!

if you keep coming off so strongly to one side like you do, it puts people off, you know? it makes you seem just as bad as the people arguing for it...

anyway, just my 4 cents
 
D

deleted15807

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Throwing words around like amputation and mutilation is ludicrous to me.

The words are simply meant to rally the troops. Like 'gay marriage is destroying America'. Simple, meaningless, fraudulent but very very effective in rallying the foot soldiers.
 

brianincny

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Can you please stop this debating and fighting? This kind of thing really undermines what I think is suposed to be the point of LPSG.

On my progress, I wasn't really going to even post. Only 4-5 stitches left in after long soak last night and sleeping. Glans is still getting lighter in color and already has velvety rather than shiny and wet. Very surprised how fast this took place. Remaining problems- swelling down 90% but still there. bruised look from some blood that seeped under the skin, supposed to readsorb. frenulum still pretty sore, 2 stitches closes to the tip seem 'stuck'. horny, horny, horny.
 

dolfette

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Can you please stop this debating and fighting? This kind of thing really undermines what I think is suposed to be the point of LPSG.

On my progress, I wasn't really going to even post. Only 4-5 stitches left in after long soak last night and sleeping. Glans is still getting lighter in color and already has velvety rather than shiny and wet. Very surprised how fast this took place. Remaining problems- swelling down 90% but still there. bruised look from some blood that seeped under the skin, supposed to readsorb. frenulum still pretty sore, 2 stitches closes to the tip seem 'stuck'. horny, horny, horny.
you poor thing!
must be interesting to watch the change of texture and colour though.
when the stitches are out, you could try using 'bio oil' if you want to reduce the scarring faster. it worked quite well for some scars i had...i know a few guys have posted that the scars bug them.
 

TLCTugger

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You're completely out of line calling an adult circumcision or any circumcision an amputation or mutilation.

I would never use another word to describe surgical removal of a body part. Amputation is what it is. What's your beef?

Amputation of a body part from a healthy non-consenting person is mutilation. It is. What's your beef?

I never called a fully informed adult voluntary circumcision mutilation. I have my doubts whether most such procedures are indeed fully informed. In sane places where the normal anatomy is revered, medical folk will go to great lengths to treat what ails you before even suggesting the possibility of amputation.

The OP here has already put the lie to the statements that dragged me into this sewar; that the adult procedure is somehow a grand ordeal while the infant procedure is simple.

-Ron
 

TLCTugger

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No study, no scientific board, not a single medical board has said male circumcision affects sexual functioning.
You might wish you hadn't said that - mainly because it's so silly and self-refuting. Would you even expect there to be "studies" proving finger amputation affects hand functioning? I certainly don't want my tax dollars funding such studies.

Circumcision removes about 15 square inches of sexual interface. It leaves the glans and mucosa to dry and callous, as put forth by the pro-circ African controlled trials on HIV. It eliminates the frictionless rolling/gliding mode of stimulation for a man and his partner afforded by the slinking of the slack skin. It changes the girth of the penis. The diameter increases by 4 skin thicknesses while the skin is rolled over the glans. Circumcision damages the highly sensitive frenulum and removes more than half of the sensual pleasure-receptive nerve endings a male is born with, which are concentrated near the tip of the foreskin (as identified by Taylor Erogenous Tissue Loss after Circumcision).

Done in infancy circumcision often leads to hairy shaft, tight painful erection, smelly ugly skin bridges, pitted glans, painful jagged bulgy truncated vein, mal-opposition, stitch tunnels, skin tags, meatal stenosis, etc (and of course hundreds of deaths every year, which put a real damper on sexual function). You really do need to look over the circumcision damage pages: How to Identify Circumcision Damage in the Adult Male

But you wanted studies.

This one's from a pro-circ guy (an infant circ device is named after him) in 1959. The Erogenous Zones: Their Nerve Supply and Significance It says primary erogenous zones are "found in the mucocutaneous regions of the body." That is to say where the foreskin rolls over at the tip and the skin transitions from hair-bearing skin (cutica) to mucosal skin, that's a "mucocutaneous" region. The end of the foreskin is primary erogenous zone. Amputate an erogenous zone, change sexual function.

This one measured the force required to penetrate an orifice, for cut vs intact. The intromission function of the foreskin. It was a 10-fold improvement, from 5N down to 0.5N of force with an intact foreskin (measured for men with foreskin that could cover the glans while erect).

Here, John Money of the famous John/Joan case writes in the Journal of Sex Research about some men cut as adults, all of whom reported changes in sexual function: Adult Penile Circumcision: Erotosexual and Cosmetic Sequelae

Here's a paper from the British Journal of Sexual Medicine describing the exquisite rolling/gliding action of the foreskin, so you know I didn't just make it up: The Case Against Circumcision

These two show that even when adults are cut to relieve severe problems, around 40% will report "dissatisfaction" with the outcome, while many more have measurable diminutions, like erectile dysfunction, loss of sensitivity, and also premature ejaculation:
Adult Circumcision Outcomes Study: Effect on Erectile Function, Penile Sensitivity, Sexual Activity and Satisfaction.
Penile Sensitivity and Sexual Satisfaction after Circumcision: Are We Informing Men Correctly?

This one published in New Zealand Medical Journal describes the association between female arousal disorders and vaginal dryness with circumcised partners: Effects of male circumcision on female arousal

And of course when about 200 men had 17 spots on the penis carefully measured, the 5 most sensitive spots were on the foreskin: Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies

I think these are all irrelevant. Every person has a basic human right
to a whole intact body. Even if something was utterly benign - like say
there was a safe pill you could give a baby that would mean he would
never have facial hair to shave - it would be unethical to make an
irreversible cosmetic choice on behalf of a non-consenting person.

-Ron
 

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yes,
far more important that you get the last word than that this guy gets to talk openly about his experiences.
 

B_dxjnorto

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what i'd like you to do, is go back, and tell me where i said RIC is ok. go. do it. whats that? you can't? oh that might be because I NEVER SAID IT!
Well, maybe we don't understand each other. Why try to minimize RIC if you are not for it?
you keep wording things in such a ridiculous way that make it seem like i should be going over to my parents house and shooting them for having it done to me. you basicly say that i should be unhappy and dwell on something that happened 20 years ago that i don't really have control over cause it already happened. you make it seem like its a fate worse than death and doing that is just as bad as the people who do RIC for no reason in the first place!
And you think I put words in your mouth? :frown1: What are you really upset about?
 
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B_dxjnorto

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yes, far more important that you get the last word than that this guy gets to talk openly about his experiences.
Dolfette, it's not that so much. It's that some things are self-evident. Ron is pointing out that we don't require studies to show that amputation of other body parts causes harm, unless of course they are diseased, deformed or injured. We just want to know why the penis is the lone exception. Wouldn't you be a little crazy if someone cut off some of your girl parts and then told you it was for your own good and that you were the crazy one for being upset about it?

I do believe it is a cultural aberration, not confined to the U.S., but the U.S. is nearly alone even among non-Western cultures in support of non-therapeutic partial penis amputation of infants. Circumcision is not the standard of treatment for adult phimosis outside the U.S. either.
 

dolfette

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it is that. you could start a new thread and invite him to respond there.

that would be the decent & polite thing to do.

this poster has an experience he feels the need to share.
he wants our support, not our childish bickering.
i'm interested in his experience and so are others.
we shouldn't have to wade through mile long posts and cut&pastes to find the posts that are actually on topic.

he CHOSE this. please stop trying to make him the victim.
 

B_dxjnorto

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C'mon dolfette. It's a message board. You know that. We get along fairly well here. I don't start any of these threads on circumcision, but once they are begun they are fair game for the great circ debate. The reason the debate is heating up is because people are starting to get this self-evident stuff--natural is normal--as opposed to the old school myths and fear-mongering that Phil Ayesho excels at. But people aren't buying that anymore.

I'm mainly here to counter ridiculous statements such as intact penises stink--there is no difference between a cut dick and a natural dick--the natural state of men and boys is held to be a fetish object by gay men. Maybe an intact penis is a gay fetish object in a land where we cut them off at birth. So apparently U.S. health care providers are creating fetishes and fetish objects by not RICing infants? That is nonsensical.

brianincny posted his pictures. He chose circumcision, but was he really informed? There are less invasive alternatives that he either was not informed of or chose to ignore. From other responses in the thread, we can surmise this. Now he is here looking for support, which is understandable. I support his right to choose, but I don't support his decision.