I hate myself for being gay.

[FuzzyKen]

While some men find the process of "coming out" easy, for others it is extremely difficult and self-acceptance of yourself as a total package is part of that process.

I have in my past heard of some gay men who said that they knew when they were at age twelve and thought that it was just "great".

In a manner of speaking and in spite of what the religious right tries to preach you are dealing with this issue in a far better time than it was years ago.

I am a great deal older (59) and back at that time homophobia was the rule and not the occasional extremist thing you see now. In the 1970's gay people were harassed, assaulted and beat up constantly very often by police officers.

Los Angeles and Hollywood was a really unsafe place back in the 1970's under several really homophobic police chiefs and Sheriffs of those years. In spite of mistreatment and the repeated attacks by the religious right all of us and our species are still here. We always will be simply because it is genetic.

I had other relatives I now know on both sides of my family that were also gay and I have several who are still in the closet on both sides.

In my own case I did everything to avoid the issue, I went so far as to become engaged to be Married in a heterosexual relationship. About six months before the "event" I came to my senses and realized that I could never be happy or have good mental health if I did that.

For me coming out was a gradual process in some ways. After I was able and it was not overnight to shed the "guilt" that I had been a disappointment to parents or some other imaginary relative, it was a life changing experience. My parents were born in an age that they were not naturally accepting. Over time when it was necessary they were told and I knew that for them it would be a process as it was for me.

You have to live your life for you, not for your parents or relatives and not for some television evangelist or extremist who preaches what "he/she" does, not for your salvation, but to create an "enemy" in order to fill a collections plate and hence their own pocket.

Some of the most outspoken homophobes have not been protected by God for their constant work to hurt gay people. Remember Jerry Falwell is DEAD. The fat blob of lard massed millions of dollars but he couldn't take it with him. When Louisiana Evangelist Jimmy Swaggart was arrested on "Hookers Row" by picking up a female Riverside County Sherriff's Deputy while Jacking off to porn in a white Jaguar, in spite of the alligator tears and an academy award performance "I have sinned!" complete with enough tears to create flood conditions, he did not get off and he was not protected."

It was Jerry Falwell and Jimmy Swaggart that tried to literally crucify Jim Bakker (former husband of the late Tammy Faye) they did so to remove his television show and to take away his satellite transponders for their shows. There was no benevolence in it.The next bunch of dog eat dogs employed by "God.Inc." tried to strip "Swaggart" and unlike Bakker, Swaggart told them to go and screw themselves, he was goin' on a preachin'.

The problem is that those not exposed to the gay community and it's good side never find out that there is a good side. The problem is that many get the wrong ideas.

When gay men establish long lasting relationships in a traditional sense, they cease to go out and do the night life, bars, or be part of an active gay lifestyle. They are at home with their life-partners carrying on lives as a whole that may seem boring to some but are heaven sent to those in love with the right person.

Gay men are regularly accused of being child molesters: Statistics do not prove that out as fact. The greatest percentage of molestations are heterosexual.

Gay men "recruit" others into the lifestyle: That is a falsehood, if you're not gay it is not something that can be taught.

Gay relationships never last: Not true: I have been with my other half now heading towards 13 years, and I know multiple couples who have been together for in excess of 40 years.

Gay relationships are all based on sex: The ones that don't work definitely are, because if you don't have the emotional connection you will want to be like a kid in a candy store.

Gay men are all swishy and effeminate: This is false also

The biggest problem when coming out into a new world is learning the truth and looking deeper than what can be a superficial surface.

Always remember that historically the media has always tried to portray the Gay Community as some kind of a "freak show". When FOX went into strange heaven and they would cover a gay event the only things that they would show on the screen was the drag and leather people.

I had a friend who worked for a network in Los Angeles who was a news cameraman. At a gay pride event he received a message over his radio headphones from the station manager: "We only want the ones in women's clothes and those in leather, what you're showing looks too damned normal!" The word here was ratings! They did not care about news!

People are over time growing more and more accepting in spite of the diatribes of the religious right. Fred Phelps and his personal group of crazies are under watch by the Department of Homeland Security as "domestic terrorists". When Fred dies the whole Westboro Baptist group over time will fade into history because of their doctrines of hatred.

My young friend, you have a long life in front of you and yet at the same time you will be shocked at how quickly time passes. You did not choose your feelings and attractions, but, you do choose to accept who you in fact are OR deny who you are. Denial can cause you to miss a great portion of your life.

Start working on acceptance and do it one step at a time. As I said, for some it is quick and easy and for others it is a long process.

I wish you luck on your journey. . .

 

[MH07]

And milkshakz (and others on this thread in that situation), as others have mentioned, and to use the phrase of the hour:

it really DOES get better!

When you become independent, and get away from your parents, family, and religion with which you grew up, you'll have these amazing experiences. You'll meet people who value you for YOU (the whole package), and you'll begin to feel that you DO matter and you DO have worth.

Then you'll arrive, eventually, where I am now...you can feel sorry for all those poor, unenlightened people who will go through their life hating. You'll understand that your parents did the best they could with the education/background/intelligence level they had. You can forgive them. The friends who are haters--they're not a part of your life any more.

To your surprise, you will find that you have REAL friends NOW--when I told my two lifelong best friends--separately but the same day-- (I was shaking; terrified; did not want to lose them), I got uniformly the same reaction: THEY WERE FURIOUS WITH ME! Not because I was gay--they brushed that aside. They were mad that I had something that important to tell them and didn't think our friendship would withstand such news. "But how do you feel about me being gay?" "Thank God you finally figured it out; I thought I was going to have to tell you." They already knew!!! Not because I wasn't a "manly man", but because I didn't talk about all the women I'd been with, etc. They just "knew"--and both assured me the fact that I'm gay meant no more to them than the fact that my hair was brown. We've now been friends for 40 years. They've met my various gentlemen friends, and it was no different than me meeting their lady friends.

Do not give up! You are a good person. You have so much life in front of you. And...it DOES get better.

 

[jojolongdong]

I had my worst year at the age of 19.
The understanding you will reach through this difficult time will equal the challenge, and you will come through it with more self awareness.
The hurt and pain is because you care.
Though it may seem hopeless now, the darkness will give way.
Trust in your self.

 

[Mogluver]

I agree with FuzzyKen, I too am in my late 50's and grew up in the in the early 70's. What Ken talks about is so true, I never dated in High School, but my best friend and I were as close as one could be with out being out. I can remember going to a wedding one time and being told by my Father that he would be proud if I married so and so. The fear of being outed, and the discrimination as to job, friends, and housing was intense, along with the thought that all of us were mentally ill. Things do get better, and the one thing I have learned is that the journey is a long one. The things that have assisted me is a solid university education, and advanced degrees, these skills have promoted the internal ability to think and reason. The years of struggle and enabled me to learn to be more humble, observant of others and my acceptance of my self identity. There is a wonderful world out there, acceptance is better than ever in history, and real emotional support can be found in most areas. My heart and positive thoughts go out to you, and remember each day is a new adventure, with new things to learn and likewise enjoy. It does get better.

 

[travis1985]

Travis, I don't think that's true. You are setting up an inherently conflicted situation there, not unlike (and don't take this analogy too far) Catholic priests who attempt to deny their sexuality by "channeling" it into other areas. A truly integrated person cannot ignore their sexual orientation, deny it or "hate" it, without setting up an ongoing, unhealthy dynamic. The object of a healthy human being's life should be to accept and embrace all humane aspects of themselves, regardless of society's ill-advised dictums, to develop themselves to their best and highest extent. To view one's innate sexual orientation as "wrong" is simply, unhealthy.

I can see what you're saying, but I disagree with it. What about (and I won't take your analogy too far if you'll give mine the same courtesy) alcoholics? Many of them despise that part of their genetic makeup. They can still feel a sense of value and worth as human beings and find some happiness. It doesn't have to be a decision between embracing their alcoholism, believing it to be a good thing, and loving themselves, or rejecting it and hating themselves along with it. Humans are multi-faceted. We can handle not thinking everything about ourselves is great, if that's how we feel.

I also think there's a lot of pressure on closeted gay people to apply society's current politically correct principles to themselves. We're not supposed to think of being gay as a negative thing. We're supposed to celebrate it. There's a lot of pressure to come out, with that being posed as a one-size-fits-all solution to all the problems a gay person has in their life. Not everyone wants that, and it isn't necessarily going to be beneficial to everyone who does want it.

It's particularly important to remember that in this case, we know for a fact that we're giving advice to someone who "hates himself for being gay." A young adult in 2012 doesn't need to be told that it's okay to be gay and that he should love it and embrace it. He's heard that before. It's been a very popular cultural attitude for as long as he's been on this earth. Being presented with it a few more times here isn't going to magically change the outlook to "Oh, okay, I guess I'm happy now then, if people on LPSG said I should be." It might even be more alienating to find that for all the assurance of being understood, the only input people can give is "Your feelings are wrong. Just switch over to our feelings." I think it's perfectly valid and possibly more productive to meet this guy where he is on the subject, tell him that his values and feelings are just as legitimate as anyone else's, and that he can still love himself anyway.

 

[kanzon]

We all have our challenges in life, I can relate to yours, and remembered watching the video about Nick Vujicic that is encouraging. He might be gay , don't know.

I Love Living Life. I Am Happy. - YouTube

 

[CUBE]

So to the OP of the thread. Are you hearing us? How are you feeling? Talk to us little bro.

 

[hud01]

I can't even admit to myself that I am gay. None of my friends, family, or anyone I know is gay and they all treat it like it is a disease. It's wrong and I've been fed this my whole life and right now I cannot cope with it. Every time I get drunk, high, I am afraid I'll slip so I cannot even really enjoy myself when I get out. I am naturally a manly man but inside I know I am still attracted to older men but even somedays I will be attracted to woman. Some days I just pray for hours and think about my life if I wasn't gay. I hate myself right now. I really do.

I hate to be a wet blanket, you have been here since 2007 and you are only 19 now??? So you joined at 15?

 

[BIGBULL29]

I can see what you're saying, but I disagree with it. What about (and I won't take your analogy too far if you'll give mine the same courtesy) alcoholics? Many of them despise that part of their genetic makeup. They can still feel a sense of value and worth as human beings and find some happiness. It doesn't have to be a decision between embracing their alcoholism, believing it to be a good thing, and loving themselves, or rejecting it and hating themselves along with it. Humans are multi-faceted. We can handle not thinking everything about ourselves is great, if that's how we feel.

I also think there's a lot of pressure on closeted gay people to apply society's current politically correct principles to themselves. We're not supposed to think of being gay as a negative thing. We're supposed to celebrate it. There's a lot of pressure to come out, with that being posed as a one-size-fits-all solution to all the problems a gay person has in their life. Not everyone wants that, and it isn't necessarily going to be beneficial to everyone who does want it.

It's particularly important to remember that in this case, we know for a fact that we're giving advice to someone who "hates himself for being gay." A young adult in 2012 doesn't need to be told that it's okay to be gay and that he should love it and embrace it. He's heard that before. It's been a very popular cultural attitude for as long as he's been on this earth. Being presented with it a few more times here isn't going to magically change the outlook to "Oh, okay, I guess I'm happy now then, if people on LPSG said I should be." It might even be more alienating to find that for all the assurance of being understood, the only input people can give is "Your feelings are wrong. Just switch over to our feelings." I think it's perfectly valid and possibly more productive to meet this guy where he is on the subject, tell him that his values and feelings are just as legitimate as anyone else's, and that he can still love himself anyway.

Good post!

I know what you are trying to say (was sort of saying the same thing in my last post, if I recall correctly). Male homosexuality is still so taboo in our culture that is hard to like that very thing that society hates so much. Sure, the younger generation and the liberal culture with its strong voice in the media/urban area has brought about incredible changes, but homosexuality is still despised at the heart of the culture.

We may hate certain aspects of ourselves, but that doesn't mean we can't learn to come to terms with those very things and find an lasting peace about that.

Never should any person ever feel shame about being gay or transgendered. It seems so wrong, so tortuous, so unnecessarily unbearable. How my poor heart aches to hear the sadness in the stories of gay boys when they cry out. I want to wave my magic wand as in a fantasy, though I can seemingly do nothing in this untranscendable dimension of reality. But wait - do not let your heart be saddened! You have my shoulder, and in time I promise that you will overcome. The transcendent power of love will set you free and fly you into the perfect sunset of reality.:smile:

 

[aglets]

Don't. Even if you were Catholic and you considered it a sin, the Catholic Church don't teach you or anyone else to hate you for sin. They teach repenting and forgiveness. And forgiving isn't just what you do for others, it's what you do for yourself. So if the bad 'ol Catholic Church doesn't hate you, why should you?

 

[hud01]

Don't. Even if you were Catholic and you considered it a sin, the Catholic Church don't teach you or anyone else to hate you for sin. They teach repenting and forgiveness. And forgiving isn't just what you do for others, it's what you do for yourself. So if the bad 'ol Catholic Church doesn't hate you, why should you?

Actually the Catholic church does teach hate...unless you repent....which means giving up homosexuality

 

[aglets]

Actually the Catholic church does teach hate...unless you repent....which means giving up homosexuality

Nope, check again.

 

[hud01]

Nope, check again.

Don't have to. The same church that was against condoms in Africa until a shit storm hit them.

 

[houtx48]

Go see Michele Buchmann's gay husband he'll fix you.................

 

[hud01]

Nope, check again.

you mean the same church who, during sermons, told their flock to vote against same sex marriage

 

[travis1985]

Trying to explain the Catholic Church's teachings to people who are determined to hate it is an exercise in futility. Anti-Catholic sentiment is one of the handful of situations where ignorance and closed-mindedness are still protected. Catholophobes.

 

[FRE]

Actually the Catholic church does teach hate...unless you repent....which means giving up homosexuality

Actually, that's not what it teaches.

The Roman Church teaches that homosexuality itself is not a sin, but sexual acts between people of the same sex are sinful. Thus, if a gay person abstains from sex, he is not committing a sin because of being gay. The Roman Church preaches acceptance for gay persons in that situation and opposes hatred. However, not all Catholic churches are the same in that regard. Some Catholic churches, including the Episcopal Church, support committed same-sex relationships.

And, now for a little story. In the 1960s, in some parts of the country, schools had released time so that religious students could go to their respective churches for religions instruction. Miss X announced to her class that Catholics should go to such and such a location for religious instruction. Matilda arose from her desk and proceeded to go with them whereupon Miss X said, "Sit down, Matilda. You are not Catholic." Matilda responded, "Yes I am Catholic, and my father is a Catholic priest." Matilda was a member of the Episcopal church which, like several churches, considers itself to be Catholic although it is in no way associated with the Roman Church. Her father was a priest in the Episcopal Church. She was making a point which should be made more often. Many of us are very irritated by the failure of so many people to understand that point.

 

[mymilkshakez]

Wow you guys are so supportive! Thanks for all the kind words! I've been thinking about what you guys have said and now I see a new light! Love you guys !

 

[FRE]

Wow you guys are so supportive! Thanks for all the kind words! I've been thinking about what you guys have said and now I see a new light! Love you guys !

I'm sure that all of us are happy that we have been able to help you and hope that you will soon become more comfortable with yourself.

 

[matelalique]

Good luck young man.

I would recommend googling something like "what the bible really says about homosexuality" (a book by a jesuit scholar), and viewing what many religious scholars have concluded - including many, many Catholic scholars. The Catholic church is hierarchical, and despite much thought, noone can contradict a superior "in public". Listen to the subtext of the Jesuits, and it the message is complex.

The major two messages are: from Leviticus - the health laws to protect a desert tribe desperate for survival, where tapeworm (no pork), inbreeding (don't fuck your cousins), and adultery (don't screw over another family that you need to work with), were sensible cautions. With the need to produce as many babies to continue the tribe, semen was a valuable commodity. The second is from Paul to the Ephesians, and he speaks out explicitly on man on man sex. What few people mention is that he *also* denounces sex between married straight couples in the same letter, since they should be purifying themselves in anticipation of Christ's return for the third time 2000 years ago. Since Christ was expected back within the month, Paul felt that straight couples could save themselves from a penis going astray into a wive's anus (and whatever hellish risk that might imply), and heaven would be on the cards, and noone should be concerned about abstaining for the brief period.

My history is raised Catholic, actively Catholic as a college boy, came out shortly after, tried the Dignity approach (which is the gay Catholic group).

The church has promoted homophobia based on a selective reading of writings from 2000 years ago, written for completely alien audiences. What I suggest is that you question the purpose of these messages, and I suggest you conclude that the message from the bible is stronger than the "carved images are the devil incarnate", to the "heaven on earth" message of "love your neighbour", and extend that to "what you do should not harm the people around you, and if you want to piss, shit or ejaculate onto or into these people, and it doesn't harm them, and it is fully consensual then what is the harm?" I don't want people shitting in my mouth, or anywhere near me. I'm happy with consenting to other stuff.

Anyway - it sounds like you have Christian issues - you need to tease out the Christian issues (and which are legitimate), and the icky issues - as a young gay man you may be cool with being jerked off, but not with another dude coming on your chest. Figure out the icky versus Christian, and try to enjoy your sexuality.

Good luck.
Matthew