I hope that all Democrats can unite after this nonsense...

[unabear09]

That's pretty close to where I am with it.

me too! Really and truly, I don't really care for any of the candidates, as the person who would have gotten my vote in the primaries (and had they made it thru to be the dem. candidate), so I voted for the person who I thought was the lesser of the 2 evils so to speak. Now I'm getting tired of everyone's bullshit, and when I go and vote in November, I won't be voting for anyone....I'll be voting against McCain :smile:

 

[transformer_99]

I hate to say it, but anyone, regardless of whether they are Democrat or Republican that thinks this economy is fixable by any one of the three/four running, still believes in the tooth fairy. Either that or they still think they can swing a $ 2,000 mortgage working an 8-5 job and not wind up foreclosed on again.

The only way it happens, each one of our incomes has to catch up to the inflation that occurred for the major ticket items that used to be the American dream. That isn't going to happen. So house prices need to drop back to pre-2000 levels, that won't happen. Fuel prices will have to drop to pre-2000 prices too and that isn't going to happen either.

When Clinton took over for Daddy Bush, the game was still manageable. This 2008/2009 hand off is like being put in the game in the 4th quarter and being down by 4 td's. The games pretty much over. Sorry to be a pessimist, but I think I'm being fairly realistic about where the state of the nation truly is. You still need a 6 figure income to buy a house and really be able to afford the taxes and upkeep on it. And a retirement, sock that money away, that's if the devaluation of the dollar doesn't continue to make that almost a worthless endeavor ?

And to be honest, the rift amongst the Democrats will probably fall short of the solidarity the Republicans have within their party.

I'm still waiting to hear how any of these 4 are going to salvage the USA as they raise and spend millions to further their own interests as President of the USA. I certainly don't want to hear any more of this stupidity that we have to find new and creative ways to forego. We bought that load of BS from 1992/1993-2000. Then to have the last 8 years go the way it has. Yeah, the last thing I want to hear is a majority of us going without and making sacrifices for the future. I've had a lifetime of that already. And I can't be the only one that feels this way ?

 

[D_Thoraxis_Biggulp]

With how bad our situation is, nobody could achieve full economic repair in 4 or even 8 years time, assuming we keep the pattern of 2-term Presidents. But I believe it is possible to turn things in the right direction and atleast maintain stability while getting back towards more solid ground. Whether or not we get there is anyone's guess, but I think we can make progress towards it.


Also, as a side note, the Republican party is falling apart behind the scenes. McKinnon, one of McCain's top aides, said he would resign from the campaign rather than compete against Obama. On top of that, McCain has begun dismissing campaign staff with connections to potentially damaging groups, and high-level lobbyists make up a significant portion of his campaign staff.


Still, I'll agree with you that the weakness of the dollar and the resulting increased necessity of sacrifices among even the upper middle class is getting out of hand. What happened to the days when a middle class family of four could live off the 9 - 5 incomes of two parents, living in a two-story house with a two-car garage, and still have the time, money and energy left to go out and enjoy themselves sometimes? Honestly, all I've wanted for years is to eventually be financially comfortable without having to break my back on a daily basis and still be able to enjoy myself at the end of the day. Y'know, the American dream in a nutshell. But that's become a pipe dream. But I sincerely hope, and believe, that it will not stay that way.

 

[midlifebear]

Most 'Mericuhns I know think I'm a commie pinko with no interest in the USA. On the contrary, many years ago I made an educated guess as how to best manage my meager assessts, took the 10% penalty hit for closing down and cashing in all of my IRA's, and a KEOGH. Consolidated everything, and moved to Spain when a Euro was only 86 cents to the All Mighty (bow and says vespers) Dollar at the time. I could not afford to live in the USA, work in the USA, and find myself mortgage free with no unsecured debt by the time I was 50. But if I moved out of the country there was a chance.

It's really rather amazing what 1 Euro buys me in the morning. There is rising inflation, but business interests are much easier to manage than in the USA even though the taxes are substantially higher. But I'm willing to pay even more taxes as long as Spain's autonomous governments continue to improve and maintain the physical infrastructure. Gas and diesel are incredibly expensive, but it's not necessary -- in fact it's a down right pain -- to own and maintain an automobile where I live. The benefits are improved health because I walk a great deal and enjoying a state-of-the-art public transportation system for where ever I want to go. Imagine. No Parking Tickets!

I'm now a resident of my chosen country, but I'm still a US citizen. I care a great deal about who wins the next election. What bothers me is not the constant whining about the choices for president or what may or may not have happened in the past that has led the USA to it's present edge of long-term recession and endless world debt. What irks me the most is how naive ALL 'Mericuhns are regarding how to change the direction of the country and remove/imprison the scoundrels who we've let take control of what was once a rather nice place to live.

I'm all for everyone enjoying the rise in fuel prices, having to decide between a gallon of fuel or enough ramen to eat for a week. It's about time we, as pampered ethnocentric babies have to face the realities that the majority of the world has had to deal with since the end of WWII. Maybe . . . just maybe this looming crisis -- depending upon how you define it -- will stimulate 'Mericuhns to think, rebuild their cities and recapture their past rather than simply expand out into prime farm land with poorly designed subdivisions and invest in failed businesses in strip malls.

Imagine being able to take a train from community to community rather than be herded on discount airlines (a soon-to-be-non-existent-entity) and using a newly implemented mass transit infrastructure to get from A to B. Yeah, I'm looking forward to the oncoming collapse as Highway Patrol cannot afford lumbering the highways in their gas guzzling cruisers just to pick off the occasional speedster or hitch hiker. Of course, it will be like pulling teeth to get companies such as Union Pacific back into the business of hauling passengers long-distance. But it's definitely the cheapest, most economical way to go.

Maybe 'Mericuhns will calm down a bit and become somewhat reflective about their plight. Who knows. Men may even return to the old custom of offering up their seats to pregnant and older women.

As for those of you who got suckered into a variable sub-prime mortgage; what the Hell were you thinking!? Did you miss those classes in basic arithmetic in intermediate school? If so, maybe you should consider going to a community college and brushing up on some basic skills -- like how to read a contract as well as figure percentages.

I'm not wishing the USA ill will. I'm simply stating the obvious and hoping that there are enough reasonable minds in the USA who can implement positive change. (Including universal health care.)

Good luck with that.

 

[transformer_99]

With how bad our situation is, nobody could achieve full economic repair in 4 or even 8 years time, assuming we keep the pattern of 2-term Presidents. But I believe it is possible to turn things in the right direction and atleast maintain stability while getting back towards more solid ground. Whether or not we get there is anyone's guess, but I think we can make progress towards it.


Also, as a side note, the Republican party is falling apart behind the scenes. McKinnon, one of McCain's top aides, said he would resign from the campaign rather than compete against Obama. On top of that, McCain has begun dismissing campaign staff with connections to potentially damaging groups, and high-level lobbyists make up a significant portion of his campaign staff.


Still, I'll agree with you that the weakness of the dollar and the resulting increased necessity of sacrifices among even the upper middle class is getting out of hand. What happened to the days when a middle class family of four could live off the 9 - 5 incomes of two parents, living in a two-story house with a two-car garage, and still have the time, money and energy left to go out and enjoy themselves sometimes? Honestly, all I've wanted for years is to eventually be financially comfortable without having to break my back on a daily basis and still be able to enjoy myself at the end of the day. Y'know, the American dream in a nutshell. But that's become a pipe dream. But I sincerely hope, and believe, that it will not stay that way.

I admire and respect your hope, but we live in a post 9/11/2001 economy. A new type of cold war and to be honest that's been rekindled too. We're looking at tax rebates that are announced and only signal wholesale inflation in a race to get to it first by every wolf that can raise the price of what we all use and need on a daily basis. The one in 2001, sold as something that American's could use to save for a retirement was a lie, inflation ate that one up, just like $ 4/gallon gas is plundering our bank accounts and savings as we speak. Nothing we can do about it but bend over and grab our ankles. Raise your wages/salaries enough and you won't work period. And what is trickled down doesn't cover the inflation. As a credit card society they already know what we buy and where. Profiled just like our internet usage and consuming habits were back when NetZero tracked our cookies. They haven't planted tracking chips in our bodies yet, but your cell phone knows where you are and that's just as good.

What you offer as hope, if it can't be done predominantly over the next 8 years/2 terms, simply won't ever happen. It'll take a lottery win as the only way to make it thru life. Either that or you have to become that entrepreneur that is soaking the 8-5 worker drone, while stifling them with a $ 10/hr wage. One thing I've noticed, back in early 1990's plenty of infomercials looking for victims, well those have come back in full force throughout W's administrations. A lot of it has been directly responsible for the mortgage and real estate issues that need to be resolved.

 

[unabear09]

Most 'Mericuhns I know think I'm a commie pinko with no interest in the USA. On the contrary, many years ago I made an educated guess as how to best manage my meager assessts, took the 10% penalty hit for closing down and cashing in all of my IRA's, and a KEOGH. Consolidated everything, and moved to Spain when a Euro was only 86 cents to the All Mighty (bow and says vespers) Dollar at the time. I could not afford to live in the USA, work in the USA, and find myself mortgage free with no unsecured debt by the time I was 50. But if I moved out of the country there was a chance.

It's really rather amazing what 1 Euro buys me in the morning. There is rising inflation, but business interests are much easier to manage than in the USA even though the taxes are substantially higher. But I'm willing to pay even more taxes as long as Spain's autonomous governments continue to improve and maintain the physical infrastructure. Gas and diesel are incredibly expensive, but it's not necessary -- in fact it's a down right pain -- to own and maintain an automobile where I live. The benefits are improved health because I walk a great deal and enjoying a state-of-the-art public transportation system for where ever I want to go. Imagine. No Parking Tickets!

I'm now a resident of my chosen country, but I'm still a US citizen. I care a great deal about who wins the next election. What bothers me is not the constant whining about the choices for president or what may or may not have happened in the past that has led the USA to it's present edge of long-term recession and endless world debt. What irks me the most is how naive ALL 'Mericuhns are regarding how to change the direction of the country and remove/imprison the scoundrels who we've let take control of what was once a rather nice place to live.

I'm all for everyone enjoying the rise in fuel prices, having to decide between a gallon of fuel or enough ramen to eat for a week. It's about time we, as pampered ethnocentric babies have to face the realities that the majority of the world has had to deal with since the end of WWII. Maybe . . . just maybe this looming crisis -- depending upon how you define it -- will stimulate 'Mericuhns to think, rebuild their cities and recapture their past rather than simply expand out into prime farm land with poorly designed subdivisions and invest in failed businesses in strip malls.

Imagine being able to take a train from community to community rather than be herded on discount airlines (a soon-to-be-non-existent-entity) and using a newly implemented mass transit infrastructure to get from A to B. Yeah, I'm looking forward to the oncoming collapse as Highway Patrol cannot afford lumbering the highways in their gas guzzling cruisers just to pick off the occasional speedster or hitch hiker. Of course, it will be like pulling teeth to get companies such as Union Pacific back into the business of hauling passengers long-distance. But it's definitely the cheapest, most economical way to go.

Maybe 'Mericuhns will calm down a bit and become somewhat reflective about their plight. Who knows. Men may even return to the old custom of offering up their seats to pregnant and older women.

As for those of you who got suckered into a variable sub-prime mortgage; what the Hell were you thinking!? Did you miss those classes in basic arithmetic in intermediate school? If so, maybe you should consider going to a community college and brushing up on some basic skills -- like how to read a contract as well as figure percentages.

I'm not wishing the USA ill will. I'm simply stating the obvious and hoping that there are enough reasonable minds in the USA who can implement positive change. (Including universal health care.)

Good luck with that.

Very well said Midlife! I couldn't agree with you more. I love my country, but I have seen what is going on now (economy and what not ) and what is coming for many years now (and I'm only 25 years old with 3 years of college). I just pray the citizens of this great country wake up and realise that we are in for tough times and we are going to have to make some drastic changes to our everyday lifestyle. That means sacrifice. We need to go back to the pre WWII days, when people lived within walking distance of their work and all of the stores, and every town having street cars and some form of cheap public transport. We Americans got to used to having it all and not doing without, and we've become spoiled and developed this since of being better than everyone else in the world because we have the nicest (most expensive) homes, cars, etc. instead of what we need to get by. I just pray that who ever does get elected this Fall, and the subsequent presidents after him or her, can reunited this country and teach us all to reprioritize our lives.

 

[Beauxbatons]

I don't think it much matters one way or another how the votes go... I mean, nobody voted for Dubya, but we've been plagued with that retarded crack monkey for the last eight years...

What I really wish, though, is that the Democrats could have combined Hillary and Barack into one super-candidate... oh, wait, that person already exists--Oprah! If anyone can fix our problems, she can...

 

[transformer_99]

I don't think it much matters one way or another how the votes go... I mean, nobody voted for Dubya, but we've been plagued with that retarded crack monkey for the last eight years...

What I really wish, though, is that the Democrats could have combined Hillary and Barack into one super-candidate... oh, wait, that person already exists--Oprah! If anyone can fix our problems, she can...

I hear Dr. Phil is her VP running mate ? :wink:

 

[naughty]

I don't think it much matters one way or another how the votes go... I mean, nobody voted for Dubya, but we've been plagued with that retarded crack monkey for the last eight years...

What I really wish, though, is that the Democrats could have combined Hillary and Barack into one super-candidate... oh, wait, that person already exists--Oprah! If anyone can fix our problems, she can...

LMAO! I'm sorry I couldnt get past the retarded Crack Monkey...

 

[transformer_99]

Well to both the "*Bears", that model works in Europe. Each nation is rarely larger than a comparative US state. California is larger than Italy, Texas is bigger than Spain. North America is nearly 2 1/2 times larger than all of Europe and that includes the British Isles. To be honest America has more interior to grow into as the larger populations are coastline. So in planning it, they had to think small and compact in Europe or each of those individual nations. Last time they had a guy think big and expansion, we had to crush Hitler for Europe.

 

[deleted15807]

Ultimately a country get's the government it deserves. To cross the aisle and vote Republican especially after the Bush years shows a fundamental lapse in judgment.

Has anyone been paying attention to the Supreme Court? A McCain win would be diasterous to moderates and liberals. On Jan. 20, 2009, six of the nine Supreme Court justices will be over 70. Most of them could be replaced by the next president, particularly if he or she is re-elected. Given the prospect of accelerating gains in modern medical technology, some of the new justices may serve for half a century.

So much is on the line this year.

 

[Trinity]

I see you're an acolyte of Trinity's "I'm rubber, you're glue" school of sophistry. You'll be right at home where I'm putting you alongside her, fucktard.

Hazel you always resort to name calling and profanity because you can't think of anything else to say. You always look like a child and you always lose the debate when you do. So, keep it up. All your nasty language is projection because when you project you describe yourself.:wink:

Ultimately a country get's the government it deserves. To cross the aisle and vote Republican especially after the Bush years shows a fundamental lapse in judgment.

To coronate a less qualified candidate with a few inspirational speeches and promise of change over a more qualified candidate who has the goods to not only inspire but to make change a reality...that is a fundamental lapse in judgment. And yes, ultimately if so many are willing to prop up Obama, we deserve the government we get.

 

[saabman]

Then you're really an Independent. I'm myself a registered Independent. But you're not a Democrat if you vote for McCain, that ought to be patently obvious.

After watching what has happened this primary season, I am considering leaving the Democratic party (and are my parents pissed!), and switching to Independent. I mean, c'mon - when you really sit down and think that the nominee of the Democrats will be a man: who four years ago was running around the Illinois State House voting "present" instead of making a decision; someone with no foreign policy experience even though we have two wars raging; someone who is a member of a hate/racist church for 20 years; someone who, with no economic experience is supposed to turn an economy around on the brink of collapse; someone who has less popular vote; someone who has not one original plan or idea - they are all twisted versions of other candidates, all because he talks real pretty into a microphone and "inspires"...wow.

The Democrats aren't about to shoot themselves in the foot as they usually end up doing - they are about to blow their entire leg off.

I cannot fill that bubble in for Barry next November because of those reasons I've mentioned - unless Hillary is the VP. She won't let him screw the country up more than it already is, and she'll be ready to step in when the rest of the country realizes they've been duped.

When you actually think that we are a symbol to the world of the democratic process, and the person with the most votes doesn't win (think back to 2000), it's totally messed up, and hurts my brain, LOL. Sorry, I saw "Recount" on HBO over the weekend.

 

[Industrialsize]

Hazel you always resort to name calling and profanity because you can't think of anything else to say. You always look like a child and you always lose the debate when you do. So, keep it up. All your nasty language is projection because when you project you describe yourself.:wink:



To coronate a less qualified candidate with a few inspirational speeches and promise of change over a more qualified candidate who has the goods to not only inspire but to make change a reality...that is a fundamental lapse in judgment. And yes, ultimately if so many are willing to prop up Obama, we deserve the government we get.

You are sounding more "bitter" as time goes on. There was no coronation. Senator obama ran a better campaign and collected more delegates. Senator Obama as done far more than give a few inspirational speeches. You know that. On policy issues, Senator Clinton and Senator Obama are remarkabley similar. If you can't see that through your anger over the "Process"..you are not as saavy politically as you think. How a woman, who contends to be a democrat, can even countenance pulling the lever for john Mccain is beyond me. Millions of Senator Clinton's supporters are beginning to understand how important it is to elect a democrat, even though he was not their first choice. I'm beginning to think you will never come around. Hypotetical question: Your standard bearer, Senator Clinton, sometime this week comes out and enthusiastically endorses Senator Obama and exhorts her supporters to do the same. What does Trinity do?

 

[deleted15807]

To coronate a less qualified candidate with a few inspirational speeches and promise of change over a more qualified candidate who has the goods to not only inspire but to make change a reality...that is a fundamental lapse in judgment. And yes, ultimately if so many are willing to prop up Obama, we deserve the government we get.

I agree with HazelGod now. Congratulations on your achievement. I was referring to John McCain and you know it.

You are sounding more "bitter" as time goes on. There was no coronation. Senator obama ran a better campaign and collected more delegates. Senator Obama as done far more than give a few inspirational speeches. You know that. On policy issues, Senator Clinton and Senator Obama are remarkabley similar. If you can't see that through your anger over the "Process"..you are not as saavy politically as you think. How a woman, who contends to be a democrat, can even countenance pulling the lever for john Mccain is beyond me. Millions of Senator Clinton's supporters are beginning to understand how important it is to elect a democrat, even though he was not their first choice. I'm beginning to think you will never come around. Hypotetical question: Your standard bearer, Senator Clinton, sometime this week comes out and enthusiastically endorses Senator Obama and exhorts her supporters to do the same. What does Trinity do?

I think Trinity will need intravenous Prozac.

The election as you state should be about POLICY and not about CELEBRITY. But such the nation America has become when more people know Britney than David Souter what exactly should we expect?

 

[Trinity]

After watching what has happened this primary season, I am considering leaving the Democratic party (and are my parents pissed!), and switching to Independent. I mean, c'mon - when you really sit down and think that the nominee of the Democrats will be a man: who four years ago was running around the Illinois State House voting "present" instead of making a decision; someone with no foreign policy experience even though we have two wars raging; someone who is a member of a hate/racist church for 20 years; someone who, with no economic experience is supposed to turn an economy around on the brink of collapse; someone who has less popular vote; someone who has not one original plan or idea - they are all twisted versions of other candidates, all because he talks real pretty into a microphone and "inspires"...wow.

The Democrats aren't about to shoot themselves in the foot as they usually end up doing - they are about to blow their entire leg off.

I cannot fill that bubble in for Barry next November because of those reasons I've mentioned - unless Hillary is the VP. She won't let him screw the country up more than it already is, and she'll be ready to step in when the rest of the country realizes they've been duped.

When you actually think that we are a symbol to the world of the democratic process, and the person with the most votes doesn't win (think back to 2000), it's totally messed up, and hurts my brain, LOL. Sorry, I saw "Recount" on HBO over the weekend.

I have to agree with you on this. I too saw Recount...

 

[deleted15807]

After watching what has happened this primary season, I am considering leaving the Democratic party (and are my parents pissed!), and switching to Independent. I mean, c'mon - when you really sit down and think that the nominee of the Democrats will be a man: who four years ago was running around the Illinois State House voting "present" instead of making a decision; someone with no foreign policy experience even though we have two wars raging; someone who is a member of a hate/racist church for 20 years; someone who, with no economic experience is supposed to turn an economy around on the brink of collapse; someone who has less popular vote; someone who has not one original plan or idea - they are all twisted versions of other candidates, all because he talks real pretty into a microphone and "inspires"...wow.

The Democrats aren't about to shoot themselves in the foot as they usually end up doing - they are about to blow their entire leg off.

I cannot fill that bubble in for Barry next November because of those reasons I've mentioned - unless Hillary is the VP. She won't let him screw the country up more than it already is, and she'll be ready to step in when the rest of the country realizes they've been duped.

When you actually think that we are a symbol to the world of the democratic process, and the person with the most votes doesn't win (think back to 2000), it's totally messed up, and hurts my brain, LOL. Sorry, I saw "Recount" on HBO over the weekend.

Then I urge you to vote McCain and quit whinning and YOU too Trinity. Put your money were your mouth is and contribute!!

John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President

 

[saabman]

Then I urge you to vote McCain and quit whinning and YOU too Trinity. Put your money were your mouth is and contribute!!

John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President

The country is so anti-Republican, that Charles Manson could be at the top of the Dems ticket - and on November 5th, he'd be called, "President-Elect Manson". I fought to have the MOST QUALIFIED candidate lead the nation. Obama will most likely be the next President - but at least I will be able to sleep at night knowing he didn't win with one of my votes, and when the mask slips, and you see him for what he really is - a whole lotta nothing - I'll be there, with millions others saying, "I told you so."

So, in short, and to summarize: Kiss my ass, douchebag.

 

[deleted15807]

Your ass smells of McCain and I don't kiss 75 year old asses.

And no McCain is doing well vs Obama.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2008 - General Election: McCain vs. Obama

So I urge you to go contribute!! It's not too late to cut your nose to spite your face!! Do it!! Do it!!

John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President

The only ones laughing will be the Republicans who will get the White House after the Worst President Ever leaves.