I need some help (opinions)

[Gillette]

He has told me over and over that he just doesn't "get it" with other 24 year olds. He prefers the company of older people - male or female.

Of course he does. Other 24 year olds probably aren't able to support him and those who could won't. After all if they can make their own money they'll expect him to as well.

Kindhearted people with more experience tend to see others with less experience through nurturing lenses. They're more willing to make accommodations and to lend assistance, not just in the area in which they're more experienced but in others as well. It's a spillover effect. This spillover effect can leave them vulnerable to those willing to abuse this good nature.

But this was really premeditated. He met the guy on Gay Romeo which means he has an account on Gay Romeo.

This is something you should not forget should you experience a rush of sympathy.

But in retrospect he never had any other experiences prior to me.

How do you know this for certain? Because he told you?
People lie. Skilled manipulators lie well and often.
Men don't have a hymen.

The more I write, the more I DON'T see reconciliation. He did this, not me. If he "loves" me, he needs to show it to me some how.

This worries me.

Stop.
You aren't going to enjoy this but I think you need to hear it.

From everything I've read in this thread and others about your relationship he seems like a predatory manipulator.

You probably weren't his first experience but you may have been the first partner who could give him what he wanted, a free ride.

He was angry that you called the hotel. Was he angry that you read his email, that you didn't trust him, or that your call may have tipped off the guy he was seeing that he was already in a relationship, contrary to what he might have told him had he been setting that guy up for a sugar daddy role as well?

Anger at being caught <---genuine
No remorse for cheating <---genuine
Threats when cut off <---genuine
Sudden cajolery and attempts at reconciliation <---FAKE!!!!!!

No one ever wants to admit they were wrong about someone they gave their heart to but it happens all the time. It hurts like a sonofabitch, it's embarrassing and it make us doubt ourselves, but the best way to deal with it is to admit it and be more cautious in the future.

I honestly think you should cut off all contact with him and in case he calls you keep this list handy.

Lying
Anger
No remorse
Threats

Something else that I think might help you to read is this.
Kübler-Ross model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Normally it's applied to death but it also applies to other significant life changes and I think your relationship qualifies. You've been in the denial phase since you read those earlier emails. You're going through the anger phase and the bit of your post I bolded seems like bargaining, though with the wrong person. The next step will not be fun but we're here for you. Just know that on the other side of that final step will be a happier future for you without parasites.

 

[Darkriff]

Sorry it had to happen to ya thickjohnny, but as others have said, the boy can't be trusted, and from my personal experiences, people can't do a 180, they can only change so much, and ONLY if they are willing. Recently divorced I got tired of the lies and bullshit. Has she stopped? Fuck no, in fact, even though we're not together, she still lies to me about stupid shit, I just don't get it. As several others have mentioned, he's just in it for a free ride, it sucks having to pay your own bills, I've been there and done that shit. I may be only 25, but I have lived quite a bit more than many others my age. Most others haven't earned 6 figure income in a single year, had their own house, been married, divorced, and has a kid. I feel your pain, but cut your losses, protect your future now, as dol said, change those locks, and hire someone to take care of the paperwork in your business. You don't want to eventually come back and think to yourself, "Fuck, I knew this would come back and bite me in the ass." Be safe bro, take it easy, and good luck.

 

[B_thickjohnny]

Thanks everyone for all of the comments and thoughts. I need to hear things for sure to help me stay on course. On one side, he needs to go for what he did and for things he might have done in the past. More things seem to come to mind now - things that I thought was innocent. I've ALWAYS thought that he was honest and a good person. I encouraged him to go out with his friends so that he wouldn't feel that he missed out on university life. He said he just didn't have much in common with the others - they liked going out almost every night drinking, smoking dope, partying. He didn't like that so he opted for going out after classes for a beer and then home. Then it got to where it was almost every Friday and/or Saturday night. And it started getting later and later. It wasn't until then - about a year ago - that my spidey senses started tingling and I thought something was up. I asked him several times if there were things we needed to talk about - was he happy, etc. He always answered things were fine but the one thing that he didn't like was that we left home together, worked together (though it was part time and he was at school most of the time), came home together and talked mostly about business things. We talked about work over dinner and even in bed. He hated this. He was a TREMENDOUS help in my business (I'm in real estate). He organized showings, and sold several of our listings through his own efforts. He got paid 50% of the commissions so he had two very good years (of course 2009 and now SUCK!). He paid for things like groceries and our cleaning lady from time to time. He paid for lunch or dinners from time to time and he paid his fair share when we traveled together. I can't in all honesty say he was a complete gold digger. I can't. But he never offered to help out with the mortgage when he knew no money was coming in this past year. He never offered to go out to get another part time job to help out. He still got a small basic salary for his office work though and he never said anything like, Johnny, keep that money for the time being...until we can figure things out. And even now he expects to stay on that payroll because he has a contract through the end of the year. I've already check with a local lawyer and he says that the Czech labor law overrules contracts so I can give him notice and 90 days of pay, period. But there's still two deals (thankfully) he's been actively working on and one will close within the next week or so. I have to wait on at least that one before I pull the termination trigger and I will pay him the commission he earned. His being a dick doesn't mean I need to be a dick.

About reconciling. I like the guy... I love the guy. I see the need for him to have a life as a 24 year old. Though it hurts, and though he didn't do this in a good way, I have to let go and let him stand on his own two feet. He needs to know what it's like to pay ALL the bills and live within his means. That said, and after some time apart, I don't see a reason, provided we both have some feelings or attraction to one another, that we can't see one another on a slow "dating" basis - starting over , so to speak. Some one here suggest not dating (others) for a year. I'm not sure that could work for him and for me I can go without for some time (certainly not a year however). I wonder how to go about even suggesting this idea to him. Go out, meet people, date but remember me and what we had and the promises we made to one another that we'd be together for life. If he can say he agrees to that, I think I will be ok. I know that this flies in the face of what I was saying earlier but that might have been just my anger. Could this be part of a conversation? Maybe tonight when he comes to get the rest of his stuff. If he says he can't make that kind of promise (like when I asked him about if he would see other people he said he couldn't answer that) than I think I'll know my answer. But he's already said, that he wants to date me again. Invite me out, have me over to his new flat. In his words, "let's start over again". Was that just comfort words that he said to help me get over him leaving or was it sincere? Maybe only time will answer this question. He might go out again with his PWC friend and begin spending more time with him and his ideas for me will be out the window. Only time will tell and I need to move regardless... I know.

I already think I know the answer to this but does anyone think it would be ok to contact this guy (the PWC guy) and ask him if he knew when he met my BF that he was already involved with someone? Someone said to me that they would have thought that had the guy known, he may have told BF, go home. I personally would not go for someone cheating - if they do it once, they're likely to do it again. So would it be ok to contact him and ask him? He knows that BF left Sunday night and according to BF the guy offered his place but BF said no - at least that's what he's told me. That he stayed in a small hotel.

 

[sexplease]

if you truly love someone you must set them free.
no other way about it.

 

[molotovmuffin]

ThickJohnny, I mean absolutely no disrespect here but you're living up to your user name. You're asking for trouble and tons of it. Let the man go, both of them, and walk away. Ultimatums and/or conditions never work in one's favor. They always backfire.

The truth is...you're hoping someone is going to give you the green light to do what it is you want to do. Which appears to be take the man back.

Good luck to you... I'm out of here. I no longer wish to waste my time.:frown1:

Thanks everyone for all of the comments and thoughts. I need to hear things for sure to help me stay on course. On one side, he needs to go for what he did and for things he might have done in the past. More things seem to come to mind now - things that I thought was innocent. I've ALWAYS thought that he was honest and a good person. I encouraged him to go out with his friends so that he wouldn't feel that he missed out on university life. He said he just didn't have much in common with the others - they liked going out almost every night drinking, smoking dope, partying. He didn't like that so he opted for going out after classes for a beer and then home. Then it got to where it was almost every Friday and/or Saturday night. And it started getting later and later. It wasn't until then - about a year ago - that my spidey senses started tingling and I thought something was up. I asked him several times if there were things we needed to talk about - was he happy, etc. He always answered things were fine but the one thing that he didn't like was that we left home together, worked together (though it was part time and he was at school most of the time), came home together and talked mostly about business things. We talked about work over dinner and even in bed. He hated this. He was a TREMENDOUS help in my business (I'm in real estate). He organized showings, and sold several of our listings through his own efforts. He got paid 50% of the commissions so he had two very good years (of course 2009 and now SUCK!). He paid for things like groceries and our cleaning lady from time to time. He paid for lunch or dinners from time to time and he paid his fair share when we traveled together. I can't in all honesty say he was a complete gold digger. I can't. But he never offered to help out with the mortgage when he knew no money was coming in this past year. He never offered to go out to get another part time job to help out. He still got a small basic salary for his office work though and he never said anything like, Johnny, keep that money for the time being...until we can figure things out. And even now he expects to stay on that payroll because he has a contract through the end of the year. I've already check with a local lawyer and he says that the Czech labor law overrules contracts so I can give him notice and 90 days of pay, period. But there's still two deals (thankfully) he's been actively working on and one will close within the next week or so. I have to wait on at least that one before I pull the termination trigger and I will pay him the commission he earned. His being a dick doesn't mean I need to be a dick.

About reconciling. I like the guy... I love the guy. I see the need for him to have a life as a 24 year old. Though it hurts, and though he didn't do this in a good way, I have to let go and let him stand on his own two feet. He needs to know what it's like to pay ALL the bills and live within his means. That said, and after some time apart, I don't see a reason, provided we both have some feelings or attraction to one another, that we can't see one another on a slow "dating" basis - starting over , so to speak. Some one here suggest not dating (others) for a year. I'm not sure that could work for him and for me I can go without for some time (certainly not a year however). I wonder how to go about even suggesting this idea to him. Go out, meet people, date but remember me and what we had and the promises we made to one another that we'd be together for life. If he can say he agrees to that, I think I will be ok. I know that this flies in the face of what I was saying earlier but that might have been just my anger. Could this be part of a conversation? Maybe tonight when he comes to get the rest of his stuff. If he says he can't make that kind of promise (like when I asked him about if he would see other people he said he couldn't answer that) than I think I'll know my answer. But he's already said, that he wants to date me again. Invite me out, have me over to his new flat. In his words, "let's start over again". Was that just comfort words that he said to help me get over him leaving or was it sincere? Maybe only time will answer this question. He might go out again with his PWC friend and begin spending more time with him and his ideas for me will be out the window. Only time will tell and I need to move regardless... I know.

I already think I know the answer to this but does anyone think it would be ok to contact this guy (the PWC guy) and ask him if he knew when he met my BF that he was already involved with someone? Someone said to me that they would have thought that had the guy known, he may have told BF, go home. I personally would not go for someone cheating - if they do it once, they're likely to do it again. So would it be ok to contact him and ask him? He knows that BF left Sunday night and according to BF the guy offered his place but BF said no - at least that's what he's told me. That he stayed in a small hotel.

 

[B_thickjohnny]

You're more than 100%. And I was just convinced of it. I got wind of more information that he's been lying and cheating for months. Thanks for setting my head straight. It just became soooo much easier to kick his ass to the curb.

 

[helgaleena]

I too am guilty of imagining that because I love someone they love me equally. It has often not been so.

Even if the fellow had said 'go home' to him, he still had left you. It would be no help to anyone to find this out. Not you, not the young idiot, not the pickup. He chose to be unfaithful, and it may not be so bad if both of you had agreed to it. But he HID it. That is what you must not countenance.

 

[B_thickjohnny]

He came last night to collect his things. He came while I was away (I left a key with a neighbor) but I got home and he was still here. I noticed a box with all my hangers and I commented that I thought he was taking HIS stuff. He kicked the box and went crazy about HIM being out on his own, not having anything, starting from scratch etc. He said he wanted the hangers because he needed them. I said take the fucking hangers.

He shows up at Church today for the Good Friday service and smiles and shakes my hand. After that he asks me if I wanted to go get a bite to eat. We go and before too long he tells me that since he's still an employee and I'm getting 50% of the commissions HE EARNED he should get to use the company car from time to time especially for the apartment he rented since he had to bring all the sheets etc to the laundry before handing it to a new tenant. I just stared at him. I said for one thing, you're getting paid by the owner for managing the apartment for them. I've never asked you for any of that money. So in reality going to the laundry is part of your management responsibilities and covered by what you're getting paid. Then I told him that the car was bought by the company only for tax reasons. It's my company and it's my car. You got to use it before because YOU WERE MY BOYFRIEND. It had nothing to do with our "work relationship". I almost got up and walked out. Maybe I should have.

Then he said he couldn't believe that I commented about the hangers and proceeded to tell me about all the other things that he bought that he left behind. His explanation was if a couple gets divorced they divide things and each takes what they originally contributed. I agreed and said, no problem, come and get them. If you paid for them, they're yours, come get them. When/if he does come, I'll have a statement of back rent prepared for him and remind him that yes you bought those things but you also NEVER contributed to this apartment. You never paid a phone bill, a cable bill or an internet bill. You never paid a utility bill in THREE FUCKING YEARS nor did you pay rent! So take the sugar and flour containers, take the flowers and the pots from the balcony and take whatever else you bought or you feel belongs to you but I expect the back rent in my account within a week. That would be about $15,000 according to my calculations.

If there's any part of him that was thinking reconciliation, which he was implying in other things he was say, like coming over to his new place once he's settled, us dating again like we did at the beginning etc, his brain is not working in harmony with that part. Part of what you get when you date a child.

Anyway, I appreciate all of your comments. I made an appointment to see a counselor next week. I don't want to keep bothering you guys (and gals).

 

[Hockeytiger]

Just get him out of your life, period.

He obviosuly still has an emotional impact on you (quite reasonably). The only way to move on is if he has no part in your life. That includes work.

As soon as it is practical at work, terminate him, but make sure he is given everything he has a right to. But honestly, you still trust him to do a good job?

Let him have the tiny things in the apartment that have little value, if he demands them. Don't let it all drag on and on and on. Just get him out of your life. Personally, I wouldn't worry about the rent issue. You may be right, but its petty and you just need him out of your life. When non-married couples separate, you get what you've paid for and nothing else. If he bought those items. Let him have them. If they are worth much, let him have them anyways if he demands is. You just need him out of your life pronto so you can heal and move on.

Good luck

 

[dreamer20]

when you were 30 years old this kid was 1. As roles go it is kind of your job to pick up the tab - if the kid had his own money he would probably be hanging out with other 24 year olds. There is no equity in relationships like this and the kid always has the power, he can probably get another 56 year old faster than you can get another 24 year old.
You also mentioned that you accidentally saw his emails a lot - sounds to me that you were looking for evidence of what you already knew but it was hardly an accident. Do you really want to be a 56 year old man who is checking up on a kids emails to see if he is faithful to you? It is great to take a mentoring role in a younger gay mans life but that requires more discipline than most older gay guys have. I was living on my own since I was 17 and never had a adult male in my life and would have loved a relationship with an older gay guy that was platonic but affectionate - but they all turned into jealous bitches and it was a shame cause I could have used the advice of someone more mature. Have you thought about why you are not dating someone your own age? If this sounds ruff I don't mean to be but had to say it.

hunkydory, perhaps the "kid" could pull a 24 year old quicker, but that doesn't mean thickjohnny shouldn't date someone younger. Their relationship proves age is nothing but a number. Being an older guy doesn't predetermine him to be undisciplined, a jealous bitch or obligate him to pick up the tab for everything. In spite of the wealth disparity he is not obliged to spend, but can choose to be frugal or a spendthrift within a relationship.

Whether someone is 25 or 55, whatever, they could be possessive and jealous. They could suspect a lover is secretly seeing someone else and look through that person's personal effects to confirm their suspicions. I don't fault him for doing this as I've done it myself in the past and it was worth the effort.


From your previous post I see that you got rid of the "kid" thickjohnny. It was galling of him to look at your break-up as being comparable to settling a divorce.

When you are ready to date again, would you consider an open relationship with someone else?

 

[B_thickjohnny]

Thanks again for the support. I won't do the back rent thing; that's being mean, I think. I have to figure out now how to either move forward and take it on the chin or reconcile. He seems to want to start over and living on his own is important to him at this point in time. At the same time he says he won't promise to not see other people but he said he won't sleep with other people. He swears he did not have sex with the guy over the weekend. He said he did however do something (no details) with another guy some time back. He does not know that I know he has continued chatting with this guy because I saw the history which included their plan to meet in Paris (the guy works for Delta). It makes me question his sincerity.

 

[green carnation]

i was in a very similar circumstance and found the best thing to do was cease all communications altogether. No more discussions no more attempts to manipulate or be manipulated.
Basically move on. A lot of the things you dont understand in him are easy to explain-he simply is young and immature.
And dont put yourself in a position of being used again. Offer more than financial support in your future relationships, as im sure you have more to offer. Seek more equality in a relationship