I think there has been a significant decline in the value and expectation of men

[galaxus]

LETS GET ONE THING STRAIGHT BEFORE I START. THIS ISN'T A RANT. THIS ISN'T A THREAD WHERE YOU CAN BASH WOMEN OR MEN. ALL THE MISOGYNY AND MISANDRY DOES NOT BELONG IN THIS THREAD.THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD IS TO HAVE AN INTELLIGENT CONVERSATION AND TO POSSIBLY EDUCATE. THERE WILL BE OPINIONS AND GENERALIZATIONS AND SOME WILL BE UNPOPULAR. THE SUBJECT MATTER MAY BE SENSITIVE TO YOU.

I think there has been a significant decline in the value and expectation of the male sex. I was having a conversation with my partner. The subject basically summed down to the old and over simplified question, "Why do women like bad boys."

Throughout my life due to what I've been taught and what I have personally experienced, I explained to her that I felt conflicted with being a "good man".

I lived my young life and I'm taught how to be a man by other men and my peers [Society/Culture]. I was told to be aggressive, to take control. I go to college and study relationships, and I'm told to forget everything that I knew about being a man and I am retaught by women, some who are and are not feminists. I am told that the attitude that I had my lead to abusive situations. I enter a relationship, and I'm told to do both..... I learn that being a man is.......... there isn't even a word for it..... what is a word for "useless", "in false high demand of", "futile", "forbidden", and "vitriolic"........ Am I a drug????

I don't think men are asked to be the providers, fixers, the movers and shakers of the world. That was an archaic way of thinking. That's not what women "say" they want anymore. Now, its like they are requesting that men be committed companions instead of excelling. I hear "men are dogs", "he is just going to cheat on me", "I don't want to be in relationship because I'll just get hurt again". They are basically asking us to stop hurting them...... What it come down to is that we aren't expected to be the men who excel, we are expected to be the men who hurt, cheat, and to fail...... which is downright unfair, but our own fault.

I'm not saying that these expectations are unwarranted because we do commit most of violent crime and crime in general. We do have a history oppressing women, ourselves, and our children.... So it makes sense that all of this is happening. If you continue to hurt somebody, that somebody won't think very high of you.

...I'm not saying we don't deserve this, But I'm saying there is a big change that's happening and people aren't noticing it or taking it seriously. If I bring it up people think i'm pandering to misogynists and think they need to call a WAH-mbulance.

 

[bobg4400]

Maybe I'm just missing the point but I don't understand what the question was?
Are you saying that women expect men to be angry,violent and hurtful or that they expect men to be sweet,nice and happy?

 

[ManlyBanisters]

That's an awful lot about what you're not saying.

What are you saying?

Also, what does "in false high demand of" mean? In this context or indeed in any context.

 

[bobg4400]

That's an awful lot about what you're not saying.

What are you saying?

Also, what does "in false high demand of" mean? In this context or indeed in any context.

Oh, good, It wasn't just me who had no idea what the OP was saying.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

Maybe I'm just missing the point but I don't understand what the question was?
Are you saying that women expect men to be angry,violent and hurtful or that they expect men to be sweet,nice and happy?

I don't think you are missing anything.

My take on what I think might be behind what the OP is driving at is that there is no right way to be a man anymore. Well, sorry - I am going to call the WAH-mbulance if that's what he's driving at. There hasn't been a right way to be a woman since the 60s. And I think that's a good thing in the long run. Who wants to be a carbon copy?

Tell you what, I have a crazy idea - let's just be the best people we can be and not worry about what sex we are, what colour we are, the sex of the other people we like to rub naughty bits with and all that jazz.

 

[bobg4400]

The 'right' way to be something?
Do you mean like sterotypes?
Like if you conform to the sterotype it's seen as bad but if you don't conform it's also seen as bad so you can't do anything right?

 

[galaxus]

The 'right' way to be something?
Do you mean like sterotypes?
Like if you conform to the sterotype it's seen as bad but if you don't conform it's also seen as bad so you can't do anything right?

Something like that. I thinks that's too simple but its in the right direction.

 

[SprinkleMe69]

Bullshit thread.

 

[EllieP]

I think you might be reading the Internet too much. Real life is what I make it, and I don't want to be with a bad boy.

He is definitely the provider, but that's just the luck of the draw. He makes more money than I ever will, and I'm ok with that, even though we could both live on what I make.

He kills the spiders, I make the house look good. He tries to help and I appreciate it. He comes home every night and he knows how to make me feel good, and not just in that way.

I never worry about him cheating on me because we've both been cheated on before and it's ruined previous marriages. We know how fragile life can be, and we're very careful.

He's strong, he smells good AND bad. He's sometimes rough around the edges but knows how to pick out a good red. He will leave the house with his shirt un-ironed, but can wear a tux in a way that makes women jealous and I love it!

Did I make him do all of this? Not a chance. It's how he was wired before I got him. And I think the damns he gives for how people think about him are pretty near zero. He's never been a conformist, and I never expect him to be. He's found his own comfort level, and fortunately it agrees with my own.

Don't go through life believing there are demanding expectations placed on you. Find your own level and find a way to make yourself comfortable with it. Trust me you will have to go through hell to find it, but c'est la vie.

 

[Hoss]

LETS GET ONE THING STRAIGHT BEFORE I START. THIS ISN'T A RANT. THIS ISN'T A THREAD WHERE YOU CAN BASH WOMEN OR MEN. ALL THE MISOGYNY AND MISANDRY DOES NOT BELONG IN THIS THREAD.THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD IS TO HAVE AN INTELLIGENT CONVERSATION AND TO POSSIBLY EDUCATE. THERE WILL BE OPINIONS AND GENERALIZATIONS AND SOME WILL BE UNPOPULAR. THE SUBJECT MATTER MAY BE SENSITIVE TO YOU.

.

Let's get another thing straight, after your using the over sized type, I couldn't be bothered slumming through the rest of your garbage.


I find it more than crazy that you say "this isn't a rant" well then why the over sized type?

 

[galaxus]

I don't think you are missing anything.

My take on what I think might be behind what the OP is driving at is that there is no right way to be a man anymore. Well, sorry - I am going to call the WAH-mbulance if that's what he's driving at. There hasn't been a right way to be a woman since the 60s. And I think that's a good thing in the long run. Who wants to be a carbon copy?

Tell you what, I have a crazy idea - let's just be the best people we can be and not worry about what sex we are, what colour we are, the sex of the other people we like to rub naughty bits with and all that jazz.

I not saying there is no right way to be a man. I agree with your statement. lets do away with the genders.

But one thing I'm saying is women and men don't know how to react to the these new expectations (I guess that's the word I'm looking for). We just accept whatever comes from it.

And that, "in false high demand thing". What I mean by that is that people "say" they want men to be a certain way but hardly rewards them for being that way.

Thats really all I can say, I'm sorry I can't explain it anymore.

 

[D_Kitten_Kaboodle]

My two cents:
(keep in mind from an "older generation")

IMO, When looking for a lifetime partner,

• find one that takes pride in himself,
• treats his mother, sister (or female counterparts) with respect and isn't afraid to show love,
• is ambitious in his career (but not to the point to neglect family life),
• and the only place he is wreckless and wild with abandon is in the bedroom...kitchen...den...(you get the point)

The confidence and security (ie, commitment) in your relationship develops over time. The "bad boy" image may be fun to play with... but is not fun for a lifetime partner.

I'm sure there are women that are drawn, by their own personalities, to the bad boy image. But I would think that would be a dangerous relationship from the start...although, I suppose it could work for some...just not me.

I'm not sure we should "just accept" if we are looking for a lifetime relationship. Now, if you are talking about just friends, and people in general, certainly, that is a different subject. But I got the idea you were discussing with your partner and this is about relationships. IMO, it is important for you to know what you expect in a partner (without being overly critical)... basic morals, values, and beliefs.

 

[dude_007]

You claim it isn't a rant and then you rant.
Good job.

 

[OhWiseOne]

"new expectations"? I must have missed the flyer on that one.

As other posts have stated be yourself, be respectful that's all you can do. Sorry but not all are going to love you for who you are.

Or are you trying to say that there is a new set of rules that we (men) are suppose to conform too? IDK I'm confused now *going for a beer, scratch my ass and fart*

 

[breeze]

I don't know about the other parts but economically something is definitely happening.
As one college professor put it " this is not a good country for young men ". For awhile college enrollment for men was steadily declining while college enrollment for females steadily climbing. Young men had figured out college didn't mean much unless you had technical skills/ambitions. But its perfect if you want to teach provided there are enought teaching jobs. This may have changed but i believe there are now more females in law schools and medical schools than men. But still in high tech its mostly men. I believe in 1/2 of all households females now make more than men. Still a report came out recently that stated 90% of the new jobs created had been filled by men or were for men. I don't know if i believe that since blue collar jobs are disappearing and white collar/retail/service jobs are the wave of the future and have been for some time. At the lower/middle levels things are changing but probably not at the top.

 

[RawDog]

Tl;dr, but FancyPants, how do you do the bullet points thingie!!

 

[invisibleman]

I think that I understand the original poster's idea about men, though. I think that every boy...every man goes through wondering what it is to be a man. You are supposed to be doing certain things at certain times with certain people. Voila! You are a man now.


Some places in the world... there are rites of passages. (Some people find it serious...but me...I find it silly. *But if I were born in their situations...I guess I would be serious with it.*) But somehow...yeah...men aren't worthy just being who they are as they are. Society seems to want men to be Gods or Superheroes...someone to fix things in life. I have met many dudes. Not a one of them that were God-like...supermen...or life-mechanics every moment. Who will be the backbone and the supporter of men? Who will value us?

Every man...every woman should be valued.

 

[D_Kitten_Kaboodle]

Tl;dr, but FancyPants, how do you do the bullet points thingie!!

1. First, type what you want bulleted. (remember to hit the "enter" key for a new bullet.
2. Then, "Go Advanced" if you are not already there.
3. Above the text box you will find font, size, Bold, Italics, Alignments, Numbering, Bulleting, etc.....
4. Highlight the area you want bulleted, or numbered, and select the action... and voila!

I could play with this all day... but makes for a freaky post... hahah:smile::wink:

edit: just read the poster above the... The word of the day is "voila!" haha

 

[D_Dick_S_Lapp]

I think the OP is a bit pissed about gender roles. I think he could have done well to pace himself because making this thread but yeah. I agree though. There is no real standard that says a man is this so be it. The only standard...and possibly the thing he's pissed with is popular opinion of what a man should and shouldn't be. To which i totally agree. If you were to talk to two people from two totally different areas you'll get two totally different answers on what a man is and what a man should or should not do.

This is similar to how girls have unrealistic expectations of marriage shoved down their throats at young ages. I think what he was trying to say (and i could be wrong) is that a larger majority of people still think a man should be this or that and if you don't fill the bill then you are not considered a man. An insult which, to someone not completely in tune with who they are, can really anger and confuse (as insults are suppose to do). The difference though is that while gender roles for women have been and are being tested. The only way for them to be tested when it comes to men are when sexuality comes into play.

 

[Mercurygirl]

I think that women who choose bad boys are either in one of three categories. One, they're young and it's an act of rebellion, you know, piss mommy and daddy off. Two, they get off on the drama and excitement that comes with being in a bad boy's orbit. Three, they have daddy issues and this will be a revolving door throughout their lives, one bad relationship and wrong guy to the next, as it's the only type of love they've know. Abuse equals love in their mixed up heads. The latter kind is the saddest of all.

With the younger ones though what ends up happening is they grow out of it, get tired of being treated like shit, and start looking for the type of guy who will treat them better. Someone who is more considerate, someone who would make a good husband, a good father.