I think...

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by Imported, Jul 11, 2004.

  1. Imported

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    bih20: (and I say I think because I dont know if that is what it qualfies me with everything that I've said..I know many have said dont put yourself in either category, but I think to move on with life and do what you want to do, you have to)

    I'm gay. Since I was born I have been denying it, hoping it was false, hoping it would be something that change, but looks like it wont as I am heading into adulthood. I'm still really uncomfortable with the idea that this is true and this may be how I have to live my life. It has always been a problem for me, it has always bothered me.

    I do not like at all how this has made the rest of my life so complex. It has made things that I should enjoy be a huge pain, a huge worry.

    When you hang out friends of the same sex, you should be able to have fun, you should be able to just enjoy yourself, its a way to get away from everything else, instead, many times you dont feel comfortable, because you feel an attraction, and not even that, you feel that you have to dress properly and present yourself well when in fact you should be able to just sit back and be comfortable with your guy friends and do anything. Instead, since that is the sex that you are interested in, you are too cautious in many ways.

    HS was tough, it was tough to be around friends, in class, and get into these type of discussions, and you are always afraid that someone will find out.

    Looking for work becomes difficult, you have to consider how the boss will look at you if he finds out, or if your co-workers find out.

    Any situation that I can think of, this fact plays a role in it.

    I have always wanted a normal life, a wife, kids, hanging out with my friends but how I feel will likley not allow me to do that. I would love to have this "normal" life though, thats what I imagine.

    I am not what you would consider the "gay" guy. I love sports, I play it like crazy, almost daily, I watch it like crazy, whether its hockey, football, soccer, tennis, etc I dont talk or act feminine. I hate shopping. I just dont act how people think gay people act. I dont feel comfortable with the gay culture, I dont like too much of the flamboyance.
    I think women are beautiful, and I find them sexy, but not to the point where I get really really turned on, only abit. But, I get turned on quiet easily by a guy.

    I'm just having a really hard time understanding how I could want one thing, that "normal" life, yet because of the physical attraction none of that is really possible without me feeling umcomofrtable.

    This was really hard for me. I thought for long if I should post it.

    If someone feels the same way or anyone wants to talk about it just pm me.
     
  2. BobLeeSwagger

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    I'm not gay, so I don't know how useful my response is.

    As far as hanging out with the guys, I think it depends on what their attitude toward homosexuality is. Do you have any reason to think that they'd shun you if they found out? Although it hasn't happened to me, I've heard of guys feeling betrayed when a longtime male friend came out of the closet to them, that they felt kind of insulted that he hid this for so long, like they didn't even know this friend after all. On the other hand, if they're the homophobic types, you might never be able to hang with them again. I can see why that would cause a lot of anxiety.

    The only other thing I can think of to comment on is that being a straight guy who has a wife and kids is a social norm that doesn't apply to everyone, even if you're not gay. I'm a straight, 29-year-old guy who's never been close to getting married. Never even been in a relationship serious enough to consider it. I have no idea if it will ever happen and this doesn't really bother me. I know single, straight people who don't plan to ever get married, and married couples who don't want to have children, and they take a lot of grief from others about it. It's more important that you be happy with your life and who you are as a person than to live up to other people's standards. While being gay and wishing you weren't is a pretty awful situation to be in, being gay and never accepting it must be far worse. How many lives have been devastated because a homosexual tried too hard to be a heterosexual, to the point of marrying and having kids, all the while hoping that his/her desires would just go away?

    I strongly suggest you get some kind of therapy if you aren't already. It's a pretty complex minefield of emotions to sort through and it's not an easy thing to do with help, much less by yourself. Best of luck.
     
  3. Imported

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    bih20: I think people have a way of finding friends that are similar to them, I think thats what kind of makes a lasting friendship, I think you have to have a lot of similar qualities or you would not stay friends.
    My friends are really understanding, and are not homophobic whatsoever, so they are not a problem at all. Its just that I am sometimes uncomfortable because of my feelings but that has nothing to do with them. For most part though, its not a major issue.

    and I am not sure if I am...I shouldn't have said I wish I was not gay, because I dont really know if I am. I dont know what would really constitute it having read what I have on these forums..I have no desire for that kind of life, I dont want to live with a guy and have an emotional relationship with them, I am not comfortable with the gay culture and I dont even like how it is, but then there is that attraction. At the same time, I am attracted to women, and I find them beautiful but not attracted as much to them, and I do want an emotional relatioship with them.

    What I'm saying is that I think if I was part of the gay culture and lived a life like that I would NOT be happy, and obviously I want to be happy.

    I would consider therapy but I think I understand most of my feelings and I just would like to know what others think through experience.

    The way I look at is, its like deciding on a job, there are some positives and negative to everything, and I have to decide which would make me more happier. There are positives and negatives in jobs, friendships, and even the lifestyle you choose.

    For example, you choose to be single, maybe because you just haven't gotten to know people, but maybe because you think you will have a happier life that way, and that is respectable and the right thing because thats what makes you happy. So I have to find that middle ground.
     
  4. BobLeeSwagger

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    If by 'gay culture', you mean drag queens, bathhouses, etc., I strongly suspect that a large minority (if not a majority) of gay people aren't interested in that either. Many gay people don't identify with that at all and find the drag queen parades and sitcom caricatures somewhat embarrassing or even insulting. Most of them want what straight people want: to participate in society and live their own lives.
     
  5. Imported

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    kracken: Hey there. Hope you won't mind my 2 cents here. I can certainly understand your feelings on this issue. I didn't come out of the closet until I was 33. But once I did, the funniest thing happened. Nothin changed. My friends still liked me, work became easier and my family (shock of all shocks) already new.

    It doesn't sound as if you have a problem being gay. It sounds more like you have a problem with the stereo-typical gay: The Fem, the Queen, the guy that swishes when he walks. Guess what: You don't have to be that. Just be you. A gay guy that likes sports, both watching and playing. A gay guy that likes hanging around his friends.

    Try looking at this from a different angle. Take out the word gay and substitute Jewish in there. For example, and please don't anyone take offense at this as I am using this as an analogy, take the old joke of how copper wire was invented. Two Jews found a penny at the same time. The common stereotypical image of a Jewish man is long beard, wears a Yahmika and is cheap as Hell. Now, speaking as a Jewish man, I'm not cheap, I hate change, I like stubble and I don't wear a yahmika.

    Don't play into stereotypes. The best way to change other peoples ignorance is to take a stand and say I'm Gay or I'm Jewish and I'm NOT like what you think. Don't judge me by how others act, judge me by how I act!

    As for work, that's totally up to you. Each person is different. You might try considering becoming self employed. That way you won't have to worry about what co-workers think of you. I don't know what state you are in but there should be some kind of gay business group. Here is Seattle we have the Greater Seattle Business Association ( www.thegsba.com ). There are literally thousands of business men and women who are part of that group. See if there is something similar to where you are.

    As for the "normal" life, you already have it. Don't buy into the white picket fence with a wife and 2.8 kids. You're life is as normal as you make it. I'm going to plagerize Dr. Phil here: You'd be suprised that people don't think about you nearly as much as you think they are.

    Am I suggesting that you go out and announce to the world you are gay? No. What I am suggesting is to take this monkey off your back and hold your head up with dignity. There is nothing wrong with you.

    Kracken - - Gay, Jewish & Republican (and you thought you had problems???) :D
     
  6. daniel39

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    hi, i'm daniel, theres not one thing you said that i have'nt felt before... i work, go to church on sunday, hang w/ friends ( which are all str8 ) and am a active member of the chambr of commerce,,,,oh ya, did i mention i'm gay. my closest friend jokes somtimes that if he did'nt know i was gay,,,then he would'nt think i am gay.... this same buddy did'nt speek to me for 3 yrs when i came out to him. cause i cared about our friendship i never gave up on him....that was years ago and now we are very close,closer than when he thought i was str8. my point is,,,you are who you are...gay or not... i've met my share of queens who have never been sexual w/ another guy..... i dont walk around w/ a pride banner and i prefer str8 bars to gay ones... but that is that social surroundings i grew up in and am used to...i love nascar....my buddy says its stupid...gee were still friends...go figure......so,,as you mature,,,you will most likley be more like me....that you go to a gay bar more for the entertainment than to party w/ all your buddys...
    theres a few nice guys on this site..some guy named (doublemeatwhopper)seems to be a level headed dude, so just ask questions and be yourself...( my one buddy likes to take me to the bar w/ him...our game....i walk up to a girl he likes..ask her if i can buy her a drink,,,she says yes...then i say...well i'm gay, so i'll buy the drink and let my buddy here do the talking...works every time for him..)
     
  7. Imported

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    bih20: thanks for the comments guys, I definetley see what you mean.
     
  8. madame_zora

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    Bih20, I have gay male friends who are club goers, as well as a couple who live very conservative lives in the str8 world. It's really up to you how you choose to live your life. My one best gay friend probably would not have told me he was gay if not for the fact that as our friendship was getting closer, he knew I thought he was interested in me. He was, but as a friend. He was afraid I would not want to continue the relationship we had both come to value, but it in fact drew us much closer, knowing we shared a secret. Hope that helps.
     
  9. txquis

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    I understand.
    Like you, i was confused about what i felt,
    and the fact that i didnt fit into the sterotypical gay mold.
    But, i came to know that is normal and fine.

    Adding to my confusion was my attraction to some women.

    But, after awhile, i noticed my emotional attachment,
    every time, was to a male.
    When i let myself explore a physical relationship
    with a guy, i knew for sure that was what i wanted all the time.

    Like many gay people, and maybe even like you,
    i found it difficult to find role models.
    But you dont have to.
    You are your own kind of guy.
    And if you are gay,
    you'll be your own kid of gay guy. You dont have
    to do a particular thing in bed,
    or have particular interests...
    just be yourself.

    And, i have found many gay men who are "my"
    style of gay guy.
    You will too.
     
  10. Imported

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    HornyVeteranSJ:
    Wow!!! That is a quagmire.
    Bik20, I'm in the very same boat as you are now. I consider myself gay, but sometimes I'm attracted to females...but not nearly as much as guys. I'm not the stereotypical gay guy by any means. I love NFL, NBA, NASCAR, fishing, MLB, etc. My wrists aren't limp, and I don't have that 'gay drawl' that some do. I would someday like to have children.

    That's how I'm trying to live my life. It's hard with no good role models around, but I'm my own person. The kind of guys I'm attracted to are the ones you wouldn't even know they're gay. At the same time I'm not attracted to the cocky types either. Laid back easy going is just perfect. Just be yourself Bik and let life take it's course. Don't get caught up on labels too much, they're very depressing. I wish you luck bro.
     
  11. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    I'm going to chime in because I hate someone going through pain and depression over something that he should embrace. What I say might not make a bit of difference, but I'll feel better having said it. Please excuse the fact that it may turn out to be an epic saga of a post in terms of length. It's a subject I feel strongly about, so the post may rival those of benderten in size.

    First off, bih20, you said that you find women sexy, also. Have you considered the possibility that you might be bisexual? And would that be so bad? You have admitted to sexual attraction to men. Have you ever acted on that attraction? Have you wanted to, or are you content to look? If you aren't sure about the sex part, I really suggest you try it when the opportunity presents itself and the timing is right. It's hard to reach a turning point based solely on supposition. See if it's for you, and don't beat yourself up about it afterwards. Sex is a facet of ourselves that shouldn't be ignored. We should explore it to know ourselves better.

    That said, realise that our sexuality is only a single facet of our whole selves. It shouldn't affect your friendships if, as you say, your friends are not homophobic. They already accept you, and the qualities you possess won't change just because they find out you're gay. It will be just one more discovery about you that will allow them to know you better. Most of my good friends are actually straight men. We go to ball games and hockey matches together. We go out drinking together. We eat, we go to movies, we swim, we sit around at one of our houses and shoot the shit ... we do 'guy friends' things. They know I'm gay, and they're cool with it. They even know that I find a couple of them very attractive. They flirt; they tease ... and I laugh along with them. It's all in good fun. I once asked if it really didn't matter that I'm gay; would they be more comfortable if I were straight? One answered, "Nope. If you were straight, you wouldn't be Jacinto." What better affirmation of friendship could I hope for? I hope that your friends are as accepting. If not, do you really want to hang around a group who can't accept you for who you are? It's your life, dude; you're free to choose friends on your own terms.

    About work, that really depends what kind of profession you're in to some extent. I say 'to some extent' because there are gay and bisexual men in practically every occupation ... up to an including the presidency. If you don't feel that you can come out to your boss and co-workers, don't. There's no reason for your personal life to intrude on your professional life. Though I think being out in the workplace is often a lot easier than people are led to believe, I understand that in some situations discretion is the better part of valour. I've known gay and bisexual men in practically every walk of life. If you're good at your job, your sexuality won't change that.

    Don't worry about fitting into a particular lifestyle. Despite what the public at large believes, there is not a definitive 'gay lifestyle'. Being gay is not about going to the bars, cruising parks, interior decorating, and lip-synching to Judy Garland songs. There are gay men in suburbia with homes and family. There are gay religious organisations to help reconcile gay men with their spiritual nature. You haven't mentioned if you have any religious convictions, and of what affiliation. If you do have religious feelings, you might see if your denomination has a gay organisation. Catholics, Episcopalians, Methodists, Lutherans, Mormons, Jews and Eastern Orthodox do; I'm sure there are others that do as well. And there's the interdenominational Metropolitan Community Church that ministers especially to gay Christians. These might not apply to you, but some people struggling with their budding sexuality might find solace in sharing spirituality with others in their situation. There are other gay groups, as well. Gay Men's Chorus, gay bowling leagues, the Gay Republican Caucus, Act Up, etc. Or you don't have to join any organisation. These are just some of the options of finding like-minded gay men without doing the bar thing.

    And sports. I was an athlete in high school and went to college on an athletic scholarship. I'm still very interested in sports, and was recently made assistant wrestling coach at the high school where I will be teaching. So you have an interest in sports ... good for you! Follow sports. It's a respectable pasttime That can be something that you share with your straight friends. We bet on our favourite teams and go to the games together. It's not at odds with being gay. It's a sign that we're not so different after all. We share similar interests because humans do that.

    bih, I hope you come to see that being gay is not the end of the world. In fact, coming to terms with your sexual orientation can be the beginning of a whole part of your life that you've always feared. Face that fear, and you'll likely find that it's not so scary. It's part of you are; embrace it. Accept yourself as a whole person and you'll accept those different parts of you. It's part of what makes you who you are. Recognise that being gay doesn't mean you have to live up to some stereotype; many of us don't. Role models were mentioned earlier in the thread. Gay role models are easier to find now. I recommend reading books of two gay athletes: David Kopay and Greg Louganis. You'll see that both had struggles, but both were happier when they finally accepted that they were gay.

    I hope my words were some help. I'm lucky: my family and friends know I'm gay and are okay with it. They're the ones who matter to me. When you make peace with your inner demons and doubts, I think you be relieved to find that who you are is not such a bad person. Self discovery can be an exciting adventure. Good luck!
     
  12. txquis

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    All DMW said is great,
    and I will stress,
    deal with it now, if you can.

    It is awful to have regrets,
    but my regret is not accepting myself
    at an early age.
    I tortured myself over this until i was
    25 years old.
    There is no need for it.
    good luck,man.
     
  13. Imported

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    bih20:
    Thanks for the posts guys, especially to you DoubleMeatWhopper for the long post.

    Bisexual...hmmm, possible, I feel some attraction to women, that tingle, maybe abit aroused...with a guy though, I get easily aroused.

    You made me think of something when you said have I ever acted on it? Some of you may not beleive this, but I had my first sexual experience (gay) when I was about 7yrs old. (with a boy from the neighbourhood, same age) I look back at that and I have always wondered why did I do that? how did it occur? was I the one that made it happen? how did i have the understanding to even do that? All I can remember is where it happened and abit of the act.

    So one thing I've been saying to myself, to come to terms with this is that example. I say to myself, look, at age 7, I acted out on who I really am, I didn't have reasoning skills, I didn't have understanding, yet I still did that. So it must be that deep in the mind that is who I am and thats where my attraction is..I must have been born with it and therfore there is nothing I can do about it.

    Then another piece of me says, but, it could be that maybe that boy wanted it to happen (since I really dont remember) and that experience made me this way. Or, kids experiment, it doesn't really mean anything.

    The stuff about the sports..I was simply saying that I dont fit the "usual" characteristics of what people think of when they think gay..just explaining some things about myself.

    Role Models, really never been a problem..I have many, I dont think someone needs to be the same orientation for them to be a role model neccesarily. There are certain characteristics that I really respect from people and that way I really respect them.

    Joining organizations..not really comfortable with that. I'm really independent but the main point is I HATE the seperation of people further and further, and in my opinion that kind of does it.

    Pretty sure most of my friends would be fine with it and nothing would change but I am still under 20yrs old, and I dont know if I'm quiet ready yet. Simply, we are still young, and I think telling them when we are abit older, with more experience, they will understand better.

    I'm already slowly beginning to realize that there is nothing wrong with it and I have to say that just thinking of everyone knowing about it, I can really say it would make me more proud as a person because everyone knows me fully. I feel that holding this back has made me hold myself back in other areas too, and that alone is reason enough to come out.
     
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