I tried, I really tried....

DC_DEEP

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Well, David, in all my time here, this is the first time I have EVER seen Madame Zora invite a PM, from anyone. You should feel greatly honored. She did not invite my first PM to her, I had to ask for permission!
 

NCbear

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David, I admire you, both for your earlier posts and for the naked bravery you've shown by starting this thread. I know you probably feel like a train wreck, and you're probably wincing at the thought that you may have revealed more than you really wanted to (in retrospect), but know that the people here have shown you that your presence has value.

Still, let me repeat what others have said about determining personal value based on others' impressions: don't do it.

Take a moment to regroup. Think about who you are -- honestly and without blame or shame -- and think about who you'd like to be (as a person, as an individual, not as a nameless faceless cog in others' social wheels). If you must start with the negative, think of things you don't like about yourself. But then always follow with what you do like about yourself.

And listen to hootie (and others who've followed up on his point). Good counselors, though difficult to identify/locate, can be worth -- well, not their weight in gold, but certainly the impetus for reassessing your life. Not a small thing, IMHO. [Caveat: Make sure it's not one of those "how do you FEEL?" therapists. Get with someone who abhors bullshit, makes you stay scrupulously honest about yourself -- including noting the good in yourself -- and has useful strategies for reprogramming your self-esteem levels.]

It sounds as though you've internalized the external forces that've been beating you down to bedrock. Take comfort in the fact that you DO have bedrock, and start from there.

My best to you, David,

NCbear

P.S. PM me anytime.
 

dudepiston

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David: I just wanted to add to the posts here singing your praises, man. You have been a huge help to me, personally, and I know it's because you have a great & good heart. I have really appreciated your honesty and kind-hearted approach when dealing not only with me but others on the board as well. If you ever need to talk feel free to PM me or catch me on yahoo.
 

davidjh7

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Thank you, everybody. I am overwhelmed! I truly am! It means more than you can know, to have comapassion shown to me in such ways. I honestly didn;t expect any real response, just needed a place to vent. You see, I have realized that I had to put people out of my life that only wanted to take, never give. Unfortunately, except for some online friends like you, that has meant pretty much everybody in my area. With the exception of work friends, and a couple of casual work-related friends, everybody else is gone. So, I really had no other venue to vent, and as I said, so many others are hurting so much worse than I am, I feel a bit guilty for dumping. And instead of getting berated for it, I get increadible compassion, honest, good advice, and support. This is one main reason I so love this site--I wish everyone, of any age, could experience what it truly is, and represents. This site is so much more than about a penis---maybe the P should stand for passion, because all that is put forth about any subject is done with passion, and intellegence, and beauty. Even the ugliness that sometimes happens, is still treated with passion, and intellegence, and beauty. THis time, it has just been harder to snap out of it, and it may take some time, but I hope for that moment when something positive will happen, to give me hope and a reason to feel more positive again. IN the meantime, it helps so much to know that there are people here, that while far away and "virtual" in the physical sense, are willing and able to show such caring and compassion to a fellow human being. Thank you all, so much! I guess it is hard for me sometimes to take the advice of a good friend, who I haven't seen in many years now (someone I helped), who, upon hearing some of the stories of what I had done (mostly from others), told me in a somewhat surprised tone, "You can;t save everybody--you're not Jesus". I guess it's true--I am human, and have limits, and needs, too. I guess part of the key is learning to be happy with, and love yourself, without other people around you. Maybe this is the best opportunity for this now, since I am now alone in my personal life. Maybe when I can value myself, others can learn to value me as well. Maybe not, but I guess if I can live with myself, then that's the only one I HAVE to live with. THank you all, for being a friend. It means more than you will ever know!!
 

Lordpendragon

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Indeed, I and many others have consistently said how much we value you.

Good that you have cleared your cloth ears out and heard us.

You were one of the first gay guys here that made me feel very comfortable - so I suppose you do have a lot to answer for.
 

dolf250

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I needed to cut my reply in two; the first part where I try to reply directly to what you have said, and the second where I ramble. I did this so that people who do not like me and don't want to read my ramblings will have to skip over two whole posts instead of just one.:biggrin1:

First off, please do not think that just because you feel that others are hurting worse that it makes your problems any less real or important. There are thousands of people starving to death in this world, but we still need to care about those who, while they may not die from malnutrition in our country, are going hungry. (strange analogy, but I hope you get the point that your suffering matters as well, even if it is not the worst in history.)

Your worth is truly set by others---it doesn;t matter how much you love, or give, or serve, or struggle. It only matters how much you are loved, how much you are desired, how much you are wanted, how much you are treasured by those in your life. And if others don't value you, you are worthless.
I hope that you can return to your first way of thinking. Your worth is not set by others. You have self-worth. It may not seem like much, but the world is fickle, and if you rely on others to decide your worth you can be valued and de-valued in one event. Look to Hollywood and you will see how quickly somebody can go from star to yesterdays news (Cosmo Cramer anyone?) It is what you value about yourself that you work on, cultivate and can be proud of that you need to look to. What do you value in yourself?

I don't pretend that what your loved ones think does not matter- it can be uplifting or make you feel like trash, but ultimately, it is what you think of yourself that matters.
I wish I had the things that people value in another person. Looks. Brains. Money. Athletic ability. A great body. A big dick. Something, anything that is truly valued. All I have to offer is what I can give.
Somehow, if you had a great athletic ability the admiration that people felt for you would feel hollow as they would admire anybody else who could run faster, or jump higher more. You would eventually have to go from a life of celebrity to a mundane life where you would say “I'm David _____” and nobody would recognize the name. If you were Brad Pitt, looks do eventually fade (though plastic surgery is slowing it down.) If you were tremendously wealthy you could have the superficial friends and tag alongs that Paris Hilton does (that should give you pause.) A big dick you say? This board should tell you that it is nice, but that it is a superficial attribute that will not bring you love nor happiness.

As you said, you offer what you have to give. I hope you can be satisfied with your wisdom, compassion etc (others have already compiled a partial list on this thread) and realize that there is more to people than money. G.W. Bush is a prime example of a rich man with surrounded by phony friends. Would you want to be his friend even if he were not president just because he had $$$. Mme.Z has extended an invitation to PM her to you- something that all the money, oil, or land in Texas probably could not buy Bush.
 

dolf250

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Well, here is the ranting part; I managed to post the first part, but then the connection to the net went of a loop, and this is the first that I managed to get back online to post it, so....

I have had entire years that I have lost to depression and a lack of self esteem. I know as well as anybody that it is hard to “snap out of it,” and that if it gets bad enough, it does not seem like it is worth putting the effort into feeling better (I trust that you are not at that point.) For now, I would say that you should give yourself permission to be upset and “vent,” everybody needs to from time to time, just try to keep yourself grounded in your positive attributes and realize that you are worth more than you are presently giving yourself credit for.

One other thing that I have noticed about most (if not all) of the posters here. We are all severely flawed, most are lacking self esteem, most do not feel as though they fit in anywhere as well as they do here, and many have suffered/ are suffering depression, loss and heartache. I think that people are so much more open here than anywhere else that we all feel a level of comfort showing and sharing our pain. I often times wonder how many of us are as open or honest with the people we see every day and what would happen if we let our guard down a little outside of here.

Mme.Z offers some good advice in letting people who you know see you as human, flaws, needs, pain and all. It is difficult, and I still keep enough locked away, but it is necessary if the people in your life are going to know that they need to help you; otherwise you look the steady, strong pillar and people do not see the structural cracks forming if you keep plastering over the exterior. (another poor analogy, I seem to be full of them tonight.)



Better to try to be satisfied with the wisdom and compassion that you have been blessed with. In the mean time try to take solace in your online friends and the new friends who you have made from work and most importantly, in yourself.
 

DGirl

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dolf250 wrote..."
most do not feel as though they fit in anywhere as well as they do here, and many have suffered/ are suffering depression, loss and heartache.


I do feel this way. I felt like that in Japan and I also feel like this HERE in Hawaii.." It is HARD as hell to MAKE friends here. I am used to being with FAMILY and FRIENDS back home or when I was still in the Navy. Now that I am OUT I am just a Chief's wife.." It is hard.." I am very friendly.." But, I do not just JUMP into being FRIENDS with people. They have to meet me half way.." So, you are right dolf250.." I am very Sad most times. I hate being without GIRLFRIENDS. My reg girls are all over the world. I don't want to bring them into my SADNESS.." They have their lives to live. I don't want them worried about me.."
 

BIGBULL29

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Your honesty makes you shine like a star.

I do admit that I became very emotional while reading your post. I, along with many on this thread, sympathize wholeheartedly with you. I know what this world is all about, buddy.

It's much better to be alone if you are only surrounded by toxic people. That said, it's not bad to have a very small circle of people who you can love and count on (even just one dear soul)

As Fortiesfun suggested, it's nice to be around likeminded people. I lost that when I came home from Sydney, Australia. It's not that my friends in Sydney made me amazingly happy (I had my share of problems there), but I felt a "connection" to a few people, which - let me tell you - does the soul some good. Where am I now in the USA, I no longer have that. But, every day, I thank God for my precious family (no, I'm not Italian LOL).

I wish you the very best, David. You will find peace somewhere .:wink: