I want a new camera.

[maxcok]

OK, I'm in. I want a new piano, too. My little m-audio midi controller and softsynths is not cutting it.

Oh look, the OP has joined the hijackers!




Well come on down, and bring your new camera.

You can take pictures of my instrument.

 

[B_Hickboy]

Oh look, the OP has joined the hijackers!




Well come on down, and bring your new camera.

You can take pictures of my instrument.

What part of Tennessee are you in? I sometimes come over to Roan Mountain, Elizabethton, Kingsport, Johnson City, and other pretty places, especially during the fall.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Yes, but the keyboard is only the end of the chain. The feel and responsiveness of an instrument - the action - depends very much on a complicated mechanical linkage of keys, pins, levers, hammers, felts, strings, and so on. I'd be very surprised if they were able to reproduce that convincingly, the nuances being so different even from one acoustic piano to the next.

The greater the difference in nuance from one acoustic piano to another, the greater the likelihood that anything trying to mimick an acoustic piano will fit in somewhere in that indefinite gradient, il me semble.
But you should try one.
And as I say, I'm not sure you will like it.
But I suspect you will say that no digital instrument has ever come anywhere near as close as this one does.

Or perhaps a very experienced player of many intruments, a premiere virtuoso in this case, a Chopin specialist no less, would readily assess the constitution, the quality, the versatility and fine nuances of an instrument over a less experienced player. I am a very sorry golfer f'rinstance, and I could not tell the difference between a good club and a great club if my life depended on it. Tiger Woods would know in an instant.

But if you could not tell a good club from a real dawg, then it wouldn't matter how long you assessed one.
Similarly when comparing the time that a relative neophyte would take compared to a Rubinstein in assessing a new piano.

(one of my most cherished vinyl as opposed to digital recordings, the complete Rubinstein Chopin Nocturnes, has carried me to my dreams many a night)

Yes, both sets are wonderful.

I had a similar experience purchasing one of my instruments. After playing dozens all over the city, I sat down at an old upright grand in an antique store, and I knew in less than a minute it was the one. To be sure, I played it for a couple hours and came back the next day to play it again before I committed myself. They did not seem to mind.

That's kinda, sorta the experience I had with the Avant Grand.
If it had not been so small, and had not offered the possibility of listening, at the 3 a.m. dark night of the apartment dweller's soul, through headphones ... I'm not sure I would have been entirely satisfied.
But quite satisfied ...
All I'm saying is that I think you would be quite surprised by its quality.
But who can predict?

I may be missing sumpin here, though (I think) I know what a Bechstein is. This may be too abstruse for poor obtuse Maxcok.

The Bechstein, a German make, has been considered one of the great pianos for many decades.
Lipatti played a Bechstein quite often, for example.
The company, iirc, had a near-death experience.
Not sure how the current models compare to the older ones, nor how they compare to the new supposedly incredible makes ... e.g., Fazioli.

No way to know without the experience. My guess is I would be impressed, but for them dang esoteric reasons still find it somewhat lacking in satisfaction compared to a 'real' piano'. There is the natural vibrational quality of the wood, the strings, the metal, all those mechanical elements to consider. Hard for me to imagine that could be reproduced digitally in a way I would find satisfying. Then there is that whole soul of an instrument thang I alluded to . . . .

Well, digital is going to get closer and closer to anything it tries to emulate.
The sounds have been taken from conventional Yamaha concert grands.
Don't know what your take on them is, but I find some of them extraordinary.

I strongly disagree. A player can be no better than the quality of his um, instrument. A less responsive one is definitely a hindrance, and the worst impediment to getting better.

Well, Sviatoslav Richter, for one, loved to play second-rate pianos.
He found them challenging and thought a less exalted exemplaire forced him to forge new connections in his mind.
In some ways, his creativity was enhanced.
(I have to acknowledge that he was talking about better and worse example of concert grands in performance venues ... so it's not really all that germane to our discussion. And the other, inevitable point is that, for the last part of his career, he mostly toured with Yamaha Grands, so at that point he was not willing to catch what the good Lawd flang him.)
All this said, I don't think the Avant Grand would offer much impediment to the rubester's playing.

Did you listen to the recording on the website? Or perhaps this YouTube file?
I'm impressed. Why don't you have a listen, max?
(Here is a comment from someone who listened to the YouTube video: Yes I played this today for a couple hours and then a 9 ft Yamaha concert grand. This avant grand is extremely convincing. Not everyone can afford $80,000 - $100,000 and not everyone has room for a 6, 7 or let alone 9 ft piano. Many of us pianists live in apartments or condos. That being said this is the best I've ever played by far. It's price is around $13,000 and sounds and feels almost exactly like a $100,000 concert grand. I had trouble distinguishing between the two. I highly recommend.)

My relationship is as I said, more esoteric and nuanced than can easily be described here, and entails much more than the sound quality. And there most certainly is 'good enough'. I quite love two of my instruments, each for different reasons, though they are hardly of concert quality.

Well, there's an experience of sitting at the bench and playing that is made up of the actual sound spreading out through the room and reverberating back to the player, of the sound coming directly from the piano, a feeling of the fingers as they contact the key bed, a certain vibrational thing that the instrument conveys to the player who is only a couple feet away ...
And the Avant Grand attempts ... I feel most convincingly ... to reproduce all those sensations.
But you will have to audition one.

I may suggest other more affordable options to consider before you sign that check, not that you seem in a hurry.

Yes. I have a lot of time (gawd knows ... ain't gonna write a cheque any time soon) and my mind and ears are open.

[To HickBoy]:
Well come on down, and bring your new camera.

You can take pictures of my instrument.

The woody one, max?

 

[maxcok]

What part of Tennessee are you in? I sometimes come over to Roan Mountain, Elizabethton, Kingsport, Johnson City, and other pretty places, especially during the fall.

Oh, that country is lovely in the Fall, anytime really. Here too, actually. Have you been to Roan Mountain when the rhodedendron are in bloom? Amazing. Do you drive down the Blue Ridge? You should let me know, well ahead, when you are coming. I am in Middle Tennessee, maybe 3.5 hrs from the Smokeys.

 

[B_Hickboy]

Oh, that country is lovely in the Fall, anytime really. Have you been to Roan Mountain when the mountain rhodedendron are in bloom? Amazing. Do you drive down the Blue Ridge? You should let me know, well ahead, when you are coming, I can give you lots of tips. I am in Middle Tennessee, maybe 3.5 hrs from the Smokeys.

Yes! I've been there during the rhododendron bloom! Some people say it's the most beautiful place on earth, and although I've not seen the entire earth just yet, I would not argue with them. When my kids were younger we used to drive up to the mountain top and spread blankets on the ground and sleep open to the sky. I have great memories of that place, and photographs of the entire area during all seasons. I love it up there. I'll be moving back to NC soon, and look forward to being able to spend more time in those hills.

 

[B_Hickboy]

So, I can keep my 8.5 foot 1953 Baldwin in the dry, even temperatures of Northern Nevada? It costs $700 to have a real live piano tuner to come out from Reno or Vegas (doesn't matter) and keep the monster taut and the bass keys not sounding too muddy at least once a year. The blind guy from Reno does the best job, but doesn't drive (obviously).

You need to have that piano shipped to Charleston and installed in my living room. I'll pay for the tuning. If you take it out west to the desert the sounding board will crack.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Yah know, I too have lived by the Old Man River.

 

[maxcok]

Yes, both sets are wonderful.
I was not aware there were two. Recorded separately? You may put that on my Christmas list if you like.

That's kinda, sorta the experience I had with the Avant Grand.
If it had not been so small, and had not offered the possibility of listening, at the 3 a.m. dark night of the apartment dweller's soul, through headphones ... I'm not sure I would have been entirely satisfied.
But quite satisfied ...
All I'm saying is that I think you would be quite surprised by its quality.
But who can predict?
It sounds to me like this would be a good choice for you understanding your criteria. However, we may still talk as a) there may be other alternatives worth considering, b) budget c) beyond the difficulty of describing such esoteric sensory concepts as sound, soul and vibration on an internet board, these posts of yours are getting absurdly and tediously long.

The Bechstein, a German make, has been considered one of the great pianos for many decades.
Yes, I knew that. I was thinking (hoping?) maybe there was an intendre buried there that I missed. Now I don't feel stoopid.

Well, digital is going to get closer and closer to anything it tries to emulate.
'Emulate' being the key there. The musical equivalent of artificial intelligence IMO, not that there's anything wrong with that. I have played with synthesizers, etc. myself. Everything has its place, and like I said, if it fits your criteria, could be an excellent choice. I might do the same in your situation.

The sounds have been taken from conventional Yamaha concert grands.
Don't know what your take on them is, but I find some of them extraordinary.
They're fantastic. All things equal, I would still prefer a Steinway. Old school I guess. and Teutonic.

Well, Sviatoslav Richter, for one, loved to play second-rate pianos.
He found them challenging and thought a less exalted exemplaire forced him to forge new connections in his mind. . . . In some ways, his creativity was enhanced..
I was specifically referring to the action of the keyboard, the physical interface with the player. That should be as good as you can get. Bad action played much, not referring to the Avant but maybe a really stiff old casket, can not only ruin your technique, it can ruin your hands.

All this said, I don't think the Avant Grand would offer much impediment to the rubester's playing.
From what I've heard, I think it would improve Rube's playing, I'm sure the action is very facile, if not entirely realistic with the nuanced response a purist might desire. Most of all, if it's a joy to play, and that is the most important criterion, with added benefit of being able to play at odd hours, you may surprise yourself how good you get. Practice, practice, practice, makes. . . .

Well, there's an experience of sitting at the bench and playing that is made up of the actual sound spreading out through the room and reverberating back to the player, of the sound coming directly from the piano, a feeling of the fingers as they contact the key bed, a certain vibrational thing that the instrument conveys to the player who is only a couple feet away ...
And the Avant Grand attempts ... I feel most convincingly ... to reproduce all those sensations.
I am skeptical that it will be the same as an acoustic instrument for me, but as I say, the distinction is physical, sensory, esoteric, spiritual perhaps, impossible to explain in this forum.

But you will have to audition one.
Anything you say Senor, anything you say.

Yes. I have a lot of time (gawd knows ... ain't gonna write a cheque any time soon) and my mind and ears are open.
Then perhaps we will talk.

The woody one, max?

Yes, hardwood. Especially fine rare hardwood.

 

[maxcok]

You need to have that piano shipped to Charleston and installed in my living room. I'll pay for the tuning. If you take it out west to the desert the sounding board will crack.

And other things. Hopefully he knows enough to keep it humidified. Charleston, SC ?

Yah know, I too have lived by the Old Man River.

The muddy Mississip? Wheah, pray tell?

 

[B_Hickboy]

And other things. Hopefully he knows enough to keep it humidified. Charleston, SC ?

Yes, Charleston, SC. Is there another?

I was hoping he didn't know and would send me the piano in a panic.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I was not aware there were two [Rubinstein recordings of the Chopin nocturnes]. Recorded separately?

Actually, three, come to think of it. Late 30s, late 40s, and mid 60s.

'Emulate' being the key there. The musical equivalent of artificial intelligence IMO, not that there's anything wrong with that.

Far closer, imo, than what that comparison might suggest. However, we have talked this into the earth.

I was specifically referring to the action of the keyboard, the physical interface with the player. That should be as good as you can get.

A keyboard not merely as good as a Yamaha acoustic grand, but the same. Identical.

The muddy Mississip? Wheah, pray tell?

Whah max, the Old Man River of Southern Alberta.
And now I live near the Mississippi Rivuh of Ontario.
This is the essential story of my life (apologies to Pat Conroy): "On the night the hogs ate Willie, Mama died when she heard what Daddy did to Sister."
We iz bros, max.
Ain't nuthin U can do 'bout it.

 

[maxcok]

Yes, Charleston, SC. Is there another?

I was hoping he didn't know and would send me the piano in a panic.

Well I already suggested that to him. Whether he already knows that, which hopefully presumbably he does, I cannot say. He's a big boy (I'm told) and not stoopid.

Charleston, huh? Lovely. For some reason I thought you were upper E Coast. Why you're just over the hill. Howdy neighbor!

 

[maxcok]

Actually, three, come to think of it. Late 30s, late 40s, and mid 60s.
I believe mine is the latest, not sure, it's packed away at the moment. Which do you prefer? I can't imagine anything more quintessential than the recording I have, and that includes any classical recording by any artist. But then, I am biased. (Gould's Goldbergs could be a close second.)

Far closer, imo, than what that comparison might suggest. However, we have talked this into the earth.
And then some. Toldjah it wasn't gonna work. It's like 'dancing about architecture', only worse by several degrees.

A keyboard not merely as good as a Yamaha acoustic grand, but the same. Identical.
Right, I get that, got that, got that. But the 'touch' is much more than the keyboard. There's the whole mechanical chain I referred to, which I assume is superfluous and therefore absent in an electronic instrument. The keyboard is no more the sum of the piano, than the fingers are the sum of the player in terms of interface. But we tread on esoteric territory again, moving on . . .

Whah max, the Old Man River of Southern Alberta.
And now I live near the Mississippi Rivuh of Ontario.
Never heard of dem streams, but I'll look into it.
I have a history of life on the Mississippi and its tributaries. (apologies to Samuel Clemens)
Rivers run deep in my soul. (nod to Langston Hughes<click)

This is the essential story of my life (apologies to Pat Conroy): "On the night the hogs ate Willie, Mama died when she heard what Daddy did to Sister."
Now there's a compact and evocative sentence. It seems you have led an interesting life.

We iz bros, max.
Ain't nuthin U can do 'bout it.
That we are. Why would I want to?

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I believe [my set of the Rubinstein performances of the Chopin nocturnes] is the latest, not sure, it's packed away at the moment. Which do you prefer? I can't imagine anything more quintessential than the recording I have, and that includes any classical recording by any artist. But then, I am biased.

I think you are almost certain to have the 1965ish recordings.
I don't know which I prefer.
The earlier ones are a bit more taut; the later ones seem simpler and seem to address a more universal musical mind, well beyond all personal idiosyncrasy (and of course have better sound).
On balance, I think I prefer the last set.

(Gould's Goldbergs could be a close second.)

They are very fine.

 

[maxcok]

They are very fine.

And like the Nocturnes better than sleeping pills, from one insomniac to nother.

I suppose you knew that was the intent.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

And like the Nocturnes better than sleeping pills, from one insomniac to nother.

I suppose you knew that was the intent.

No, but they do soothe.

 

[Drifterwood]

To need or want, that is sadly the question.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

To need or want, that is sadly the question.

... and not, dear Drifter, a simple one.

 

[maxcok]

Edit: per Rubenstein recordings:

The earlier ones are a bit more taut; the later ones seem simpler and seem to address a more universal musical mind, well beyond all personal idiosyncrasy.

This describes what I hear, and why I say they are quintessential. I don't think I need to listen further, unless for intellectual comparison. Who cares? I'd rather be lost in the music.

[Goldberg variations] . . . . like the Nocturnes better than sleeping pills, from one insomniac to nother.

I suppose you knew that was the intent.

No, but they do soothe.

Searching for a link, I discover the legend is in some dispute among musicologists, not surprising. However, if you are interested: The Goldberg Variations. I warn you in advance, it tends pedantic rather quickly.

At any rate, nothing better than ol' J.S.B. for well ordering the mind, and much of the baroque and early classical repertoire for that matter. Well prescribed music could eliminate the need for a lot of psychotropic drugs, imho. As Mr. Shakespeare pointed out, well you know.

To need or want, that is sadly the question.

... and not, dear Drifter, a simple one.

There is overlap to be sure, but moving out from there I think it is fairly easy to separate what we want from what we truly need. On a material level, we need much less than most people desire or are accustomed to having. At the same time, we could perhaps use a bit more of certain things that are of a less tangible nature.

Gawd, this is so much nicer than the polithreads. I see now why you have abandoned us, Drifter.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

And like the Nocturnes better than sleeping pills, from one insomniac to nother.

I suppose you knew that was the intent.

Searching for a link, I discover the legend is in some dispute among musicologists, not surprising. However, if you are interested: The Goldberg Variations. I warn you in advance, it tends pedantic rather quickly.

At any rate, nothing better than ol' J.S.B. for well ordering the mind, and much of the baroque and early classical repertoire for that matter. Well prescribed music could eliminate the need for a lot of psychotropic drugs, imho.

Oh, I now see what you meant.
Yes, I knew the Goldbergs, by legend anyway, were composed to soothe poor Count Kayserling.
There isn't a lot of room for dragons or demons in Bach's sonic universe.
One imagines the universe as a great and flawless clock, unruffled by human drama and projection.