Identifying Hate Groups and What They Are Doing

[JustAsking]

Sad but oh-so-true. These same kids have trouble finding Canada and Mexico on unmarked maps. And why should they? Its much more fun to spend time obsessing over "American Idol" or "Survivor" than fuss with a bunch of silly old maps.

No, actually kids these days are not too much different than we were. The real problem is the essentially contentless and criminally innane way we teach history to kids up until the college level. It has to do with the textbook food chain from the publishes all the way to the school boards that choose them. In order get as many sales as possible, history and civics textbooks are designed to be as uncontroversial and unpolitical as possible. This just leaves them to describing the dates on which things happened and the chief exported product of a country or something. Its disgraceful and it will ultimately destabilize our country. A democracy full of people who are ignorant of the issues and principles on which their laws are based is doomed to mess it up by voting out their hard-won liberties for a false feeling of security. I recommend this book.

This is why you hear people say stunningly innane things like, "hey, whats wrong with the government wiretapping? I dont have anything to hide, do you?" Not realizing that this "nothing to hide" argument was perhaps made into an artform by Sen. Joseph McCarthy. And not realizing that there has never been a government that did not abuse its power.

 

[DC_DEEP]

...This is why you hear people say stunningly innane things like, "hey, whats wrong with the government wiretapping? I dont have anything to hide, do you?" Not realizing that this "nothing to hide" argument was perhaps made into an artform by Sen. Joseph McCarthy. And not realizing that there has never been a government that did not abuse its power...

I think I'm in love....

 

[Freddie53]

It has been several years so I can't give the exact statistics, but a poll on each of the 10 amendments called the Bill of Rights was done. Not a single amendment was able to gather over 50 percent of those responding as I recall. And some of them were rejected by big margins.

This is so sad. And I agree about social studies curriculum. I taught social studies. I didnt' follow the normal routine that most teachers followed. It is boring to learn the names of rulers and the dates they ruled; the names of battles and who won; the names of countries and what they import and export.

Social studies should be about learning how man has adapted to his environment of the years; what processes man has used to form governments; the choices that governments have; what is democracy and how it allows more personal freedom; why we need a billb of rights to protect each person; how to be a good citizen; what is the organization of our government; basic "street'law as in laws that we have to follow daily and the consequences of not following them.

I could name a lot more. Those are just examples. Perhaps the most important is culture and how each culture was formed and how it is like our culture and how it is different. For those reading who have no idea what the word culture means, the word culture describes a way of life of a people including everything from how the hold their fork, to which hand they use for personal needs, to what mannerisms they use, their government, beliefs; in short EVERYTHING.

If we were to accomplish the last paragraph and the rest of the world did the same, perhaps a lot of grief from wars could be avoided.

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

Hey, I'm only 24, DC_Deep!

I can't say that I'm very knowledgable about the Constitution, I think that in general, the idea of "what we want, when we want" and the avoidance of the removal of the rights of people "for our own sake" is a universal. After all, the Americans and Europeans are the same stock after all...

As for Civics, apparently your marines in Iraq need to be taught them? WTF? Doesn't anyone know that "shooting people for no reason is bad no matter who you are?" is common sense?
-----------------------------------------

On topic, I don't feel that the line is so simple. While we do accept groups that we find distasteful, it's very interesting to me, that a Father's Rights group with a few members making cruel comments about the PMs son, means the whole group are disbanded, while anti-vivisectionists who resort to graverobbing and death threats are legal...hmmm...​

 

[DC_DEEP]

No, actually kids these days are not too much different than we were. The real problem is the essentially contentless and criminally innane way we teach history to kids up until the college level. It has to do with the textbook food chain from the publishes all the way to the school boards that choose them. In order get as many sales as possible, history and civics textbooks are designed to be as uncontroversial and unpolitical as possible. This just leaves them to describing the dates on which things happened and the chief exported product of a country or something. Its disgraceful and it will ultimately destabilize our country. A democracy full of people who are ignorant of the issues and principles on which their laws are based is doomed to mess it up by voting out their hard-won liberties for a false feeling of security. I recommend this book.

This is why you hear people say stunningly innane things like, "hey, whats wrong with the government wiretapping? I dont have anything to hide, do you?" Not realizing that this "nothing to hide" argument was perhaps made into an artform by Sen. Joseph McCarthy. And not realizing that there has never been a government that did not abuse its power.

Comments about textbook publishing are completely dead-on. I have had some up-close and personal experience, both from the consumer end (as a public school teacher) and from the producer end (as an assistant to an author). It's an incredibly complex give and take. As for the kids not being much different than we were... well, almost completely true. The two main differences I see are that parents and administrators these days pretty much do what the kids tell them to do; and the kids these days have become so accustomed to calling the shots that no one is willing to "change the paradigm." And governments only abuse their power when the people allow it. I just hope others will eventually come to their senses, and not just roll over waiting for the estocada when a president whines "national security! we have to erase the Bill of Rights to fight terrorism! national security!"

 

[SpeedoGuy]

This is why you hear people say stunningly innane things like, "hey, whats wrong with the government wiretapping? I dont have anything to hide, do you?"

I suspect the reason so many citizens continue to respond so blithely to wiretapping, torture, indefinite trial-less imprisonments, searches, etc is because such intrusions are perceived as being carried about against brown skinned people or non-Christian immigrants (i.e. potential terrorists who are also not likely to be Bush voters). Joe Sixpack is not likely to get too worked up about the FBI's questionable detention of Arabic surnamed citizens.

However, if increasing numbers of average white guys were questioned by the ATF about their National Rifle Association life memberships or were Elks Lodge poobahs investigated by Homeland Security for their web activity, well, there'd be a pretty quick reaction. A national hue and cry. Then you'd see a lot more Americans suddenly resolved to defend freedom and the Bill of Right. Until then, its just not their problem.

 

[JustAsking]

I suspect the reason so many citizens continue to respond so blithely to wiretapping, torture, indefinite trial-less imprisonments, searches, etc is because such intrusions are perceived as being carried about against brown skinned people or non-Christian immigrants (i.e. potential terrorists who are also not likely to be Bush voters). Joe Sixpack is not likely to get too worked up about the FBI's questionable detention of Arabic surnamed citizens.

However, if increasing numbers of average white guys were questioned by the ATF about their National Rifle Association life memberships or were Elks Lodge poobahs investigated by Homeland Security for their web activity, well, there'd be a pretty quick reaction. A national hue and cry. Then you'd see a lot more Americans suddenly resolved to defend freedom and the Bill of Right. Until then, its just not their problem.

I think you are right about that. And I am sure that there is a feeling that once this terrorism thing blows over (yeah, right), everything will be put back to the way it was before. The Executive Branch of the gov't will retire and give all the power it usurped back to Congress and pull those conservative judges off the Supreme Court. In the meantime, lets do what we have to do to "get it done."

The problem is that it is not a swinging pendulum. History has shown us that once power is given to an Executive Branch of a gov't, you ain't getting it back.

 

[madame_zora]

I think you are right about that. And I am sure that there is a feeling that once this terrorism thing blows over (yeah, right), everything will be put back to the way it was before. The Executive Branch of the gov't will retire and give all the power it usurped back to Congress and pull those conservative judges off the Supreme Court. In the meantime, lets do what we have to do to "get it done."

The problem is that it is not a swinging pendulum. History has shown us that once power is given to an Executive Branch of a gov't, you ain't getting it back.

Yes, and if the fucktards who said and believed those kind of stupid things would have DONE SOME FUCKING HOMEWORK instead of drinking beer and playing football when they were in school, they would know that now. Instead, we are surrounded by the barely literate, and they are completely UNAWARE they they are pissing away my civil rights permantently, along with their own. As I've said many times, the right to say "I told you so, asshole" will be of little comfort (but I'm sure I'll do it anyway :wink: ).

 

[JustAsking]

Awesome. She is back and she is pissed! Thanks MZ for punctuating the discussion with the appropriate amount of rage. I was beginning to think you had abandoned us.