If Americans Don't Get Hurt, War Is No Longer War

Discussion in 'Politics' started by lucidbass, Jun 25, 2011.

  1. lucidbass

    lucidbass New Member

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    The Obama administration has come up with a remarkable justification for going to war against Libya without the Congressional approval required by the Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of 1973.American planes are taking off, they are entering Libyan air space, they are locating targets, they are dropping bombs, and the bombs are killing and injuring people and destroying things. It is war. Some say it is a good war and some say it is a bad war, but surely it is a war.

    Nonetheless, the Obama administration insists it is not a war. Why? Because, according to “United States Activities in Libya,” a thirty-two-page report that the administration released last week, “U.S. operations do not involve sustained fighting or active exchanges of fire with hostile forces, nor do they involve the presence of U.S. ground troops, U.S. casualties or a serious threat thereof, or any significant chance of escalation into a conflict characterized by those factors.”

    In other words, the balance of forces is so lopsided in favor of the United States that no Americans are dying or are threatened with dying. War is only war, it seems, when Americans are dying, when we die. When only they, the Libyans, die, it is something else for which there is as yet apparently no name. When they attack, it is war. When we attack, it is not.

    This cannot be classified as anything but strange thinking and it depends, in turn, on a strange fact: that, in our day, it is indeed possible for some countries (or maybe only our own), for the first time in history, to wage war without receiving a scratch in return. This was nearly accomplished in the bombing of Serbia in 1999, in which only one American plane was shot down (and the pilot rescued).

    Read the rest of the article here

    Thoughts?
     
  2. vince

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    Maybe no scratches, but the country has received a fairly serious 750 million dollar bite at a time when you can least afford it. Money that could have been spent bailing out a bank.
     
  3. lucidbass

    lucidbass New Member

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    Well, while I'd argue that bailing out the banks would only prolong the problem, the main issue here is that Obama is doing the same thing that Bush was doing; going to war without the approval of congress. Difference being that Obama's administration changed the definition of what they're actually doing in Libya, claiming that it's no longer war because 'their side' isn't getting hurt in combat.
     
  4. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    If I recall, Bush did get the votes in Congress to go to war although it was discovered later that it was under false pretenses.

    For Afghanistan, Joint Resolution 64 passed in the House 420-1 with ten not voting (the nay vote was from Barbara Lee - D-CA). Joint Resolution 23 passed in the Senate 98-0 with two not voting (Senators Larry Craig - R and Jesse Helms - R).

    For Iraq, the vote on Joint Resolution 114 to invade was taken on October 11, 2002. It passed the Senate by a vote of 77 to 23, and the House of Representatives by a vote of 297 to 133.
     
  5. lucidbass

    lucidbass New Member

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    Well then I'll take everything I said regarding that back. Hah.

    Still doesn't sit right with me that the USA is commiting acts of war but shrugging it off, though.
     
  6. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Same here to some degree. Most people don't care for war at all, especially when it involves the Middle East after being there for nearly a decade. The only reason why this conflict in Libya doesn't strike me as much is due to the fact that the escalation was voted upon through the UN. Nine other countries (along with the United States) decided to get involved with Libyan affairs. Unlike the two Bush wars where he got Congress support but didn't get any real long term ally support beyond the UK (who quickly pulled out when they realized it was going to be a mess).

    Perhaps Obama decided as commander in chief to move forward with Libya on his own since he knew he would never get approval from his Congress (given how severely partisan members are these days)? It kinda puts us in a strange place when we have international allies counting on us to do something and then not see them through.
     
  7. Boobalaa

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    Please read, "The Shock Doctrine-The Rise of Disaster Capitalism" by Naomi Klein (2007)..

    It's all part of the process..When there isn't a Crisis, you invent one
     
  8. D_JuanAFock

    D_JuanAFock New Member

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    Strange, because I thought that there were already enough crises going on.
     
  9. Boobalaa

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    There are..three kinds of shock..the disorienting, physical.mental trauma of a natural disaster/War..and the economic consequences..when the "relief" kicks in..,provided by the IMF and World Bank, which is actually part of the U.S. Treasury and run by the major Banks and Wall Street in the USA..
    Whether or not these countries have/had their own system, these guys come in and actually use the crisis as leverage by forcing Capitalism..Free market Capitalism..down these governments throats!..
    Lifting price controls and government subsidies,
    Massive lay-offs-high unemployment,
    cutting spending on social programs and privatizing the public sector
    Massive sell-offs of public assets to muti-national conglomerates..
    Look what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan..

    The people you see on the news who they refer to as "rebels", "Insurgents,..(the bad guys)..etc. This is the third Shock! .These are the workers, the union bosses, civil servants..professors..etc..These are the people that actually want "democracy"..Yes..the big lie is that "Free Market Capitalism" cannot coexist with Democracy but then again, ask yourself who owns the TV Network that I'm watching the news on..why are they showing me this?..
     
    #9 Boobalaa, Jun 26, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2011
  10. D_Joseba_Guntertwat

    D_Joseba_Guntertwat New Member

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    What a pile of shite you talk.
     
  11. Attila the Hung

    Attila the Hung Active Member

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    Not surprising that Obama and the Euro nations were so quick to get involved in Libya`s affairs, its a fucking disgrace whats going on here. Yeah... now Libya will not be able to fund its own infrastructure projects anymore, and we have trashed their successes too! And now they will not be able to bankroll the development of Africa! Yeehaw capitalism!

    That is what happened here, we are only in Libya because they had a massive reserve of gold backing their own central bank. They funded their own infrastructure projects interest free and wanted to do the same with all of Africa.

    Independence from the IMF and International Banking is the biggest threat to NATO there is. Because no longer would they be able to suppress countries with loans that bury them under the pile of rocks known as interest.

    Slavery is not for the minorities any more......everyone either accepts slavery or they are attacked. There will be no freedom for anyone, because anybody that even gets close, will be throttled back into the stone age and then forced to borrow money to rebuild as slaves in economic bondage.
     
  12. Attila the Hung

    Attila the Hung Active Member

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  13. Boobalaa

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    okie-dokie..what ever you say..just keep watching FOX NEWS and you'll be happy with what you see and hear because you agree with it..
     
  14. Boobalaa

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  15. yoursgetsmine

    yoursgetsmine Member

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    So if a computer geek taps into a bank and transfers all the funds into his off shore account, it's not bank robbery because he never entered the bank with a gun? If we bomb, take lives etc. it's not war because no boots are on the ground? Interesting question and point of view for sure. That being the justification why not just take every country out that we don't agree with by using our incredible capabilities and technology and nobody in the world will despise us because we don't "have boots on the ground?" Riiiiiight!

    We sure live in exciting times and no matter who's the president, he can find a justification or reason to exercise our might and will....at least from the oval office....regardless what the rest of us think! Well stay tuned folks.....it ain't over yet!!!
     
    #15 yoursgetsmine, Jun 26, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2011
  16. Boobalaa

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    You beginning to catch on..congratulations and welcome to the never ending..euphemistically entitled.. "War on Terrorism"
     
  17. yoursgetsmine

    yoursgetsmine Member

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  18. Fiasco21

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    Almost as ridiculous, if not more so than the good ol "War on Drugs"
     
  19. D_Joseba_Guntertwat

    D_Joseba_Guntertwat New Member

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    You just did it again! I've never seen that channel in my life.
    You're a non stop torrent of ranting nonsense and conspiracy theories.
     
  20. Boobalaa

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    All ya have to do is read for yourself..I ain't ranting, It's no conspiracy..no theory either..It's simply a "fraud free zone" called unregulated free market capitalism..For your ranting nonsense and conspiracy theories, keep going to church and reading that Holy Bible, yesss sir..unh-hunh, don't ya know..
     
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