If men had babies

[madame_zora]

In a post yesterday I introduced this idea, and like every other time I've brought it up, it was completely swept over. I'd really like to hear from some of you who are willing to do some soul searching and respond with some honesty.

"If men carried babies, this discussion would not be happening. I'd love to see a man suffer the consequences of morning sickness, stretch marks, weight gain, time lost from work, energy drain for seven months, swelling, soreness, and the potential loss of sex for a given time when they're too fat and weird looking to be fuckable, all to nuture a formerly non-existant life because of condom failure! Give me a fucking break. The right to choose whether or not to sustain a life is what gives women the right to be more than cum receptacles."

So I ask, if every time YOU had sex you had to consider the possibility that it could be a completely life altering situation for YOU, how would that affect your opinions about abortion?

I don't want this to be a rant. I want the men here to honestly consider how THEY would feel about an unwanted pregnancy if it were happening to THEM, knowing what a toll it would take on their life and their body. Take a few minutes to consider what it would feel like to have sex because you're horny, only to find out later that the precautions you took weren't good enough to protect you from pregnancy and you are now in a holy war concerning life and death, when you just wanted to get off. If it were YOUR ORGASM being threatened, how would you feel if women said you should just keep your pants up? If every time you had sex, even safe sex, there was an outside chance that you could become pregnant, would you expect to have to augment your life to accomodate this eventuality? Most studies report that the women who were using some form of birth control (not rythm) getting abortions is between 45 and 55%, somewhere around half. Do you think it's fair that a woman who is trying NOT to have a baby should be forced to do so just because she's the woman?

I really only want to hear from people who are willing to make the investment of time to consider it for themselves, please don't just add commentary not in the first person. Thanks guys.

 

[Rikter8]

This may or may not meet your criteria..but I'll try.

Reading through your description, it almost sounds like daily life for people with Severe Anxiety and Depression.
The weight gain/loss rollercoaster, the feelings of being incompetent or ugly, the mental pain and anguish, energy drain for YEARS..not months, and the sicknesses that go along with it.
So, I can relate.

EVery time I have sex, I go through an emotional Rollercoaster. FLOODS of Sadness overcome me to the point of worthlessness and Worry. Did I contract something that will change my life forever.
Did I do something that hurt someone else.

For women, its a bit different, as its more "Can I support this child I may be bearing". I think that it would Definitely change ones perspective on abortion if they were in those shoes. It IS a life or death situation (But I believe in abortion in the VERY early weeks) if too much time passes.
BUT....I still believe that the MAN whom did the deed should be responsable for his actions.
Women ARE more than just a cum receptacle, and I don't think that the good men view women as this.

I think more instruction is needed in Sex Ed. Yes...this is the anatomy. Now HERE is the REAL life shocker if you get her pregnant....
If the Woman is NOT trying to have a baby, then precautions need to be taken by both parties if Penetrative Sex is performed.
It takes 2 to make the baby....

C

 

[KinkGuy]

If men had to give birth, one or all of the following situations would probably occur:

1) Abortions would be paid for by the Government.
2) Birth control would be available to every man in the country.
3) Comprehensive sex education would be taught in the schools.
4) Free condoms would be available EVERYWHERE.
5) All births would be performed under general anesthesia.

And in all seriousness? If I had to contemplate the possibility of childbirth, I would probably never have sex again.

 

[Dr Rock]

I'd get my hypothetical fallopian tubes snipped, i reckon

 

[Pecker]

Pregnant men?

What better reason for adoption?

 

[D_Barbi_Queue]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rikter8 &#064; Nov 6 2005, 05&#58;52 PM) [post=358690]Quoted post[/post]</div><div class='quotemain'>
This may or may not meet your criteria..but I&#39;ll try.

Reading through your description, it almost sounds like daily life for people with Severe Anxiety and Depression.
The weight gain/loss rollercoaster, the feelings of being incompetent or ugly, the mental pain and anguish, energy drain for YEARS..not months, and the sicknesses that go along with it.
So, I can relate.[/b][/quote]

Actually, you&#39;re missing a couple more things before you can fully relate: )

having to haul your fat butt out of bed to pee 3-4 time every night (no exaggeration)
having some little alien in your stomach kicking back at you, oh and making other people freak out when they see your stomach randomly move
have indigestion ALL the time
having a period for 6 weeks after you give birth
having REALLY painful contractions for the first week of that^
cracked nipples, engorgment, blocked milk ducts (all nursing related and REALLY painful - probably like having your nuts not-so-gently nudged every few hours)
having really bad, uncontrollable gas
I won&#39;t even talk about the constipation or hemroids...you get the picture with those 2 words alone
oh...and the icing on the cake:


Drum roll, please.....

having to squeeze something that is the size of a watermelon out of something that is the size of a lemon

 

[jakeatolla]

Not to make light of this topic,
but it reminded me of a joke toon
from a few years back. And of course
I had to share it.

 

[GoneA]

I&#39;d still continue to have sex. I&#39;d be more scared for the poor child that I&#39;m going to father.

 

[Mestisamo]

Since I like Mdme Zora sooo much, I will try my best&#33;
I would try to have good/new condoms on me at all times, since I know that some folks don&#39;t always have them, as well as some lube I like. I would also try to have a good BC system in place that doesn&#39;t make me nuts or feel like I&#39;ll pick up cable from my IUD. If I don&#39;t think that would work, I would look into the best surgical technique to prevent me from conceiving. Condoms would still be used, since you can get more than just pregnant from unprotected sex.
I think that if I did get pregnant by accident, I would talk to my partner and tell them my ideas (I can&#39;t because of finances/too young/not ready *or* I want this baby because..) and make the choice early. If I could afford it, I would have the child. I have always wanted to have a baby, and wasn&#39;t worried if the other parent stayed or not. I know the 9 months are awful, and I know that it&#39;s very uncomfortable, but if I wanted to go through with it, I would. I would have a midwife, and I would try to get away from western ideas of childbirth. One would be enough for me, so I would have surgery after that to prevent future births, since I know I couldn&#39;t afford more than one child.

But since I don&#39;t have a vagina thingy, I guess I&#39;ll adopt.

 

[Love-it]

Madame Zora, you would not be able to handle my whining&#33;

I willingly acknowledge womens abiility to tolerate pain for the things that matter in their life and for those things that they cannot change, yet. It is a level of acceptance that men are not prepared to meet.

Men: only a position of pro-choice will help you avoid future retribution from women when they finally come out from behind our skirts to finally inform us that they are in control of the world and they are tired of keeping up the facade that men rule. Watch out, after women reproductive biologists/doctors successfully impregnate a man and the resulting pregnancy and birth is successful not only will your fate be sealed, sex will no longer be necessary for procreation. Enjoy&#33;

This will give new meaning to: "you reap what you sow".

As you might imagine, I am pro-choice.

 

[B_HappyHammer1977]

Obvoius statement of the day...if men had babies in the same way women do, we&#39;d be..umm...women&#33; We&#39;d have all the emotions, all the hormones...we&#39;d go through exactly the same thing. Or am I being too pedantic?&#33;

 

[GottaBigOne]

I think the implication here is that the only reason men are pro-life is because they don&#39;t understand how hard being pregnant is. I am pro-choice, so i don&#39;t think the hypothetical situation applies to me but I will say this, I would do everything to avoid a pregnancy simply because of the morning sickness. I am deathly afraid of vomiting and hence would probably never have kids. Having the abortion option open wouldn&#39;t mean a thing to me because morning sickness is one of the earliest symptoms of pregnancy, the damamge would have already been done.
For the record; I haven&#39;t thrown up in eight years, that must be a world record or something.

But madam I will pose this question to you: What about women who are pro-life?? Obviously people aren&#39;t only pro-life because they dont understand pregnant women, (which is what your implying by saying that the discussion would vanish if men had babies)they actually do have reasons why they feel its wrong and its not just an appeal to some sort of emotion, or lack of compassion. Its based on the belief that your body does not belong to you, but to someone/anyone else who wishes to force their desires on you. thats the notion you hae to attack in order to defend your right to your body.

 

[Jadamo]

If men had babies...

They&#39;d prolly want to give birth to Octuplets so that they can get FREE government hand-outs for their kids, forever.

And if the men didn&#39;t have Vaginas then, after 8 babies, they&#39;ll have one bigger than Jenna Jameson&#39;s.

I would imagine that they may not feel the same "exact" emotions as do women. I&#39;m sure after childbirth, the testosterone levels would return back to normal, hence returning to the original bodyweight (if they could or wanted to). This almost reminds me of an episode of The Simpsons when...

MARGE: Homer, I want another baby.
HOMER: No way&#33; I still haven&#39;t lost the weight from the last one.

[insert belly laugh here]

Anyway.



If men had babies, then gay couples at the Sperm Bank would just make-out to a magazine, with pages 7 and 8 stuck to eachother. Voila&#33;&#33; FatherFatherhood

Family Trees would become Family Loofas

Whoa&#33;, imagine my bitchy boyfriend, but with child.....OMG&#33;&#33; No fucking way&#33;

Men would probably have strippers at their baby showers.

Mental Picture: A round, taut, hairy belly.

Now divorced parents with kids can just take their own child with them - done deal&#33;&#33;

Father&#39;s Day would become Fommy&#39;s Day

And Mother&#39;s Day would replace Hispanic Heritage Month

Ok, I&#39;m sleepy....

PEACE &#33;&#33;

 

[hippyscum]

If it was only my sex that changed, I&#39;d still be unable to have children (I&#39;m sterile and women with my condition are unable to concieve), so the abortion issue and accidental pregnancy wouldn&#39;t be a worry. But if I really wanted a kid, then it would be IVF and I think that would be something I&#39;d be willing to go through. My body&#39;s been thrown into upheaval enough times that I don&#39;t think pregnancy would be anything I&#39;d be totally incapable of handling, though the idea of forcing something the size of my head out of myself makes me queasy, I think if I wanted kids enough, then yes, it would be worth it.

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

Originally posted by madame_zora

In a post yesterday I introduced this idea, and like every other time I&#39;ve brought it up, it was completely swept over. I&#39;d really like to hear from some of you who are willing to do some soul searching and respond with some honesty.

"If men carried babies, this discussion would not be happening. [...]"

Uh, yes it would. The argument that men are trying to control women&#39;s bodies, is actually misleading because a) women are actually more likely (5 to 10 % depending on the poll IIRC) to be pro-life than men b) it works both ways:

"That men have long coerced women into unwanted abortion when it suits their purposes is well-known but rarely mentioned. Data reported by the Alan Guttmacher Institute indicate that some 30 percent of women have an abortion because someone else, not the woman, wants it."


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>So I ask, if every time YOU had sex you had to consider the possibility that it could be a completely life altering situation for YOU, how would that affect your opinions about abortion?[/b][/quote]
It wouldn&#39;t.

 

[DC_DEEP]

Mme Zora, of course you and I both know it&#39;s easier to take a hard-line stance on this kind of issue if it is someone ELSE&#39;S body and life you are talking about.

My suggestion to the "pro-lifers" is this: Until you are ready to provide all the medical pre-natal care for a woman who is pregnant, but does not want to be, and willing to adopt any and all children born to someone who does not want to be a parent, then butt out. Don&#39;t picket or bomb the clinic, simply offer to pay all the medical expenses and adopt the babies. That one usually gets me into the receiving end of a tirade.

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

Majority of Women are Pro-Life

Despite claims to the contrary by the media and pro-abortion groups, the second poll in the last three months has confirmed that a majority of women are pro-life. When the national crisis pregnancy organization Care Net wanted a poll on women&#39;s views about ultrasound legislation in Congress, they also asked their pollsters to also survey women&#39;s attitudes on abortion.

In 2001, when The Polling Company asked female registered voters to describe their views regarding abortion, a slight plurality (48% vs. 43% pro-life) indicated they supported abortion. Only two years later, a majority of women are pro-life.

In their latest poll, 54 percent of women selected one of three different pro-life views opposing all or almost all abortions. Only 39 percent backed abortion. The results are similar to those found in a poll conducted by a pro-abortion group earlier this year.

In June, the Center for the Advancement of Women released the results of a poll showing that 51 percent of women took a pro-life position. Their poll also found that keeping abortion legal was the next to last most important priority for women as compared with other public policy issues.

In the new poll from the Polling Company, Republican women were more likely than Democrats (68% vs. 43%) to identify themselves as "pro-life." A majority (57%) of self-identified Independent women also take a "pro-life" stance.

Hispanic women were more likely to be pro-life, and some 63 percent said they opposed all or most abortions. Married women (59%) were also more likely to be pro-life.

Women&#39;s views on abortions also varied by region. The New England and Pacific regions emerged as the least pro-life (33% and 41% respectively), whereas the Mountain and East South Central regions (65% and 71% pro-life, respectively) were most opposed to abortion.

Remarkably, 18-24 year olds (63%) were the most pro-life of any age group other than 65-74 year olds (65% pro-life), and 25-34 year olds were the only group that was not a majority pro-life.

http://www.aclife.org/about_us/newsletter/news03-10-17.html

 

[absinthium]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HappyHammer1977 &#064; Nov 7 2005, 06&#58;18 AM) [post=358850]Quoted post[/post]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Obvoius statement of the day...if men had babies in the same way women do, we&#39;d be..umm...women&#33; We&#39;d have all the emotions, all the hormones...we&#39;d go through exactly the same thing. Or am I being too pedantic?&#33;
[/b][/quote]

I find it strange that so few souls have managed to grasp the point of this exercise. It&#39;s not to argue about physiology, and whether having a baby would change your sex... The message was pretty clearly outlined...

If men, in their current anatomical state, were the sex assigned to bear children, how would it affect the laws concerning abortion?

I&#39;m inclined to agree that abortion wouldn&#39;t be such a social taboo, and wouldn&#39;t be constantly under the threat of being made illegal. Having a child does change your entire life, and being told by some higher authority that you aren&#39;t allowed to make the decision for yourself as to whether or not you can terminate a pregnancy is fucking insane, and I&#39;m sure men would be outraged if that was a reality for them.

I believe Madame Z wanted the pro-life males in the audience to honestly consider what it would be like if every time they fucked, they were in danger of having their life thrown into upheaval. I guarantee not every person says to themselves, "Now this decision could affect my entire life. Do I have enough money to afford a child if one is conceived due to my actions? Do I have a way to care for a child? Will my job be accomodating and understanding when I have to take time off to have this baby?" etc., etc. every time they want to get laid. I know that&#39;s not my situation, and I am female. When I want to get laid, I&#39;m thinking, "I want to get laid." I try my best to prevent pregnancy in the first place, but everyone fucks up sometimes, and birth control can fail. That&#39;s just life. No one&#39;s perfect, no birth control method is perfect. So it&#39;s pretty unfair to just tell women not to fuck if they don&#39;t want kids, and that abortion is never morally justified and therefore should be illegal becauseIsayso.

As a complete sidenote, can we, as a community, get over the word "pedantic"? The charm has worn off. It&#39;s becoming the Godwin&#39;s law of LPSG (for me, at least). When I read the word, all I can think is, "Gee, you must&#39;ve seen someone else use that in an earlier post and thought it sounded cool, huh?".

Here are some synonyms: formalistic, donnish, rigid, priggish, abstruse, arid, didactic, pompous, punctilious, nitpicking, sententious, erudite, fussy, and doctrinaire. (Some I looked up, some are personal favorites... I hope I&#39;ve given enough examples that people might think twice before simply relying on a buzzword.)

...Before anyone even mentions it, I know what a shining example of the word in question this very rant is. The irony is not lost on me.

 

[DC_DEEP]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(absinthium &#064; Nov 7 2005, 11&#58;49 AM) [post=358913]Quoted post[/post]</div><div class='quotemain'>
I believe Madame Z wanted the pro-life males in the audience to honestly consider what it would be like if every time they fucked, they were in danger of having their life thrown into upheaval. I guarantee not every person says to themselves, "Now this decision could affect my entire life. Do I have enough money to afford a child if one is conceived due to my actions? Do I have a way to care for a child? Will my job be accomodating and understanding when I have to take time off to have this baby?" etc., etc. every time they want to get laid. I know that&#39;s not my situation, and I am female. When I want to get laid, I&#39;m thinking, "I want to get laid." I try my best to prevent pregnancy in the first place, but everyone fucks up sometimes, and birth control can fail. That&#39;s just life. No one&#39;s perfect, no birth control method is perfect. So it&#39;s pretty unfair to just tell women not to fuck if they don&#39;t want kids, and that abortion is never morally justified and therefore should be illegal becauseIsayso.
[/b][/quote]
Ah, not to mention that if a pregnancy does occur, the man can simply walk away... or at the very worst, be labelled a "deadbeat dad." If a woman simply walks away, (of course, that would have to be after birth) then she is a criminal of the worst sort.

In some cases, if it was just a casual fuck, the man & woman may not even know each others&#39; names. The man can fuck, squirt, and leave, and never have to think about it again. His "cum receptacle" does not have that option. And by the way, yes, it does take two to make a baby. If the man also carried half of the physiological responsiblilty of the gestation and birth, I&#39;m sure the laws and perceptions would be different.

Hmm, someone calls you a deadbeat dad, and pinches off a small portion of your paycheck.... someone calls you an unbalanced, unfit mother and throws you in jail... hmmm, which is worse? tough decision, huh?

 

[Shelby]

I&#39;m guessing that in the interest of equal rights abortion would be illegal. The female parent would demand the same say so as the male.