"If our flag offends you, i'll gladly help you pack!"

[freyasworld]

Well now that's a matter of hot dispute among vexillologists, I mean the term Jack is merely an old word for the flag, that it was referred to in times past as "The Jack" or "The Union Jack" or even "His Majesty's Jack" is fairly well attested as far back as the 17th century and that parliament has recognised the usage itself on a numerous occasions is a matter of record. "The Union Flag" is actually less well attested. But you're right that Royal Naval Seamen only refer to the flag as the Union Jack when it's flying at sea and as the Union Flag when it flies (or indeed does not fly for that matter) anywhere else. And it does seem most likely that the name Union Jack became a popular one via it's maritime usage. :wink:

As far as I am aware the Union Jack is flown from the Jack Staff, (pole at the front of a ship) hence for seamen the Union Jack is used, as for the rest if this, it appears that it is not some kind of racist statement, but a way of pissing off the PC brigade!

 

[D_Relentless Original]

Anyone on facebook, especially in the UK, must have seen these groups.

For those who dont, they are usually full of posts like

"Yeh, i Fink dat we shud kik out da Pakis cos dey be takin al da benfits init"

^ who talks like that?.

Me and my mate got into an argument the other week with two Pakistani lads, over a car parking space we had both kinda driven into, i was about to give it up, until they insulted my mate by calling him a black Bastard, i interjected and was told to shut the fuck up and when they take over Britain you white bastards won't even have cars. Lots more insults followed about our colour and we got spat on. People witnessed this,but were frightened of being classed as racist. So yes, it cuts both ways, i am far from racist and so is my mate, but, it is very annoying to be treated in that way.

These are fueled by right wing media stories that "immigrants are getting complaining about the St George's Flag and councils are doing it"

These are of course Bollocks as they know that a story like this will sell papers to our beautifully Xenophobic country.

What are your views on people flying the flag in the UK?

They should do it, whilst they still can.

Mostly, when i see them on cars i think "Racist, ill-educated, dick head". Unfortunately, 99% of the time, i seem to be right.

Really?, lets review this in a couple of years.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

As far as I am aware the Union Jack is flown from the Jack Staff, (pole at the front of a ship) hence for seamen the Union Jack is used,

I think the point is that it's unclear whether the Jack staff is named after it's use (among other things) as a flag pole or if the word Jack as used for a flag comes from the name of the pole.

as for the rest if this, it appears that it is not some kind of racist statement, but a way of pissing off the PC brigade!

I presume this comment was aimed at Lemon's OP right? Because I didn't imply that flying the Union Jack or the Cross of Saint George was a racist statement. Though what "the PC brigade" is I have no idea.

 

[D_Relentless Original]

Politically Correct Brigade?

 

[freyasworld]

I presume this comment was aimed at Lemon's OP right? Because I didn't imply that flying the Union Jack or the Cross of Saint George was a racist statement. Though what "the PC brigade" is I have no idea.[/QUOTE]

Sorry need to explain....
In the UK, certain local authorities have tried to ban the flying of the Union Flag/Cross of St George in case it offends minority groups. As it has been associated in the past with far right political groups.

Within these local authorities they employ a group of people to look at the whole issue of sensitivity to ensure racial harmony and equality, not just racial but religious and gender equality. This is dubbed the politically correct brigade.

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

^ who talks like that?.
I take it you dont see these groups on facebook?

Me and my mate got into an argument the other week with two Pakistani lads, over a car parking space we had both kinda driven into, i was about to give it up, until they insulted my mate by calling him a black Bastard, i interjected and was told to shut the fuck up and when they take over Britain you white bastards won't even have cars. Lots more insults followed about our colour and we got spat on. People witnessed this,but were frightened of being classed as racist. So yes, it cuts both ways, i am far from racist and so is my mate, but, it is very annoying to be treated in that way.

I can imagine it is, But you had two very vile disgusting people against you. The average Asian has the whole UK media and the idiots that believe them looking at them funny, which over time, is much worse.

Really?, lets review this in a couple of years.

From my own experiances, which is all i can use, I will still be right. Almost everyone in this country now seems to hold some sort of racist view point. They may not act on it, but ask people about immigration and they say we should limit it, or we should "send them back", whoever "them" are.

Just look at the papers. When they are getting as racist as they are, you can tell that there is something seriously wrong.

 

[D_Relentless Original]

I presume this comment was aimed at Lemon's OP right? Because I didn't imply that flying the Union Jack or the Cross of Saint George was a racist statement. Though what "the PC brigade" is I have no idea.

Sorry need to explain....
In the UK, certain local authorities have tried to ban the flying of the Union Flag/Cross of St George in case it offends minority groups. As it has been associated in the past with far right political groups.

Within these local authorities they employ a group of people to look at the whole issue of sensitivity to ensure racial harmony and equality, not just racial but religious and gender equality. This is dubbed the politically correct brigade.[/QUOTE]

Even have stopped the Manger of Jesus in our LA at Xmas

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

Grrrr! Lol.

Brb...that's Che and Fidel on the phone... :wink:

It translates to simply "the people united will never be defeated". There is nothing to be scared or angry about in that.:smile:

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Sorry need to explain....
In the UK, certain local authorities have tried to ban the flying of the Union Flag/Cross of St George in case it offends minority groups. As it has been associated in the past with far right political groups.

Within these local authorities they employ a group of people to look at the whole issue of sensitivity to ensure racial harmony and equality, not just racial but religious and gender equality. This is dubbed the politically correct brigade.

I was actually good thanks, I didn't need you to explain anything to me, and you do realise that most of what you're saying is either garbled half-truth or pure exaggeration don't you?

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

From my own experiances, which is all i can use, I will still be right. Almost everyone in this country now seems to hold some sort of racist view point. They may not act on it, but ask people about immigration and they say we should limit it, or we should "send them back", whoever "them" are.

Just look at the papers. When they are getting as racist as they are, you can tell that there is something seriously wrong.

I'll grant you that anti-immigration politics is much more common these days in Britain and much more acceptable, having been less so in the past, but it's a bit strong to say that almost everyone in Britain holds some kind of racist view, especially since you admit you're only going on your own experience, and unless you've somehow met everyone in Britain I think you'd have a hard time justifying that statement. :wink:

 

[freyasworld]

I'll grant you that anti-immigration politics is much more common these days in Britain and much more acceptable, having been less so in the past, but it's a bit strong to say that almost everyone in Britain holds some kind of racist view, especially since you admit you're only going on your own experience, and unless you've somehow met everyone in Britain I think you'd have a hard time justifying that statement. :wink:

My take on the racism issue is it has been around for an awfully long time and will continue to be an issue for the foreseeable future. As for the UK been a racist country then the cross of St George is synonymous with the knights templar and the crusades, this is a “perceived” insensitivity towards Muslims, so the politically correct brigade have tried to ban the flying of the flag.
However, Britain has the oldest migrant population of any country in Europe, in the 16th Century we had the 1st Black community, 1st Jewish community and the 1st China town! Looking at the black communities of Liverpool, they were living and working, owned property and free to marry 200 years before the abolition of slavery, there are many black families can trace back their lineage 10 generations in England.
Now the issue of racism then we are all guilty of racism of one form or another, after all sport promotes racism, whether this is a neighbouring town, or country. (It’s them against us) The world cup will certainly bring this up. What if the French knock out the English team, God forbid Germany beating England! What happened with the French and Irish qualifier game!
Because the English flag is the cross of St George, everyone assumes that anyone flying it then they are racist bigots. In recent years, with high unemployment and uncontrolled and unlimited migration, racial tensions are high, then when thousands of returning servicemen are severely wounded and disfigured or they come home in coffins, or because some Muslim lunatics are waging war against civilians, then we had a socialist government spreading fear and panic in order to remove centuries of rights from its citizens.
The government, press and the media are to blame, pure and simple, “it’s not if we will be attacked by Muslim extremists it’s when, the current threat level in the UK is Severe – which means a terrorist attack is highly likely” Any Asian or person that enters a mosque is therefore a potential terrorist or threat! Thank you Mr Brown! Local authorities with high populations of migrants or Muslims have tried to appease them by banning the cross of St George in the hope that it will improve community relations and cohesion! When in fact it has had the opposite effect. Who do you believe a group of politically correct appeasers or the Prime Minister, couple this with the fascist far right spouting off and hi-jacking the flag as their symbol, the media and press with their little sound bites!
The average man in the street cannot do anything about it, but can stick 2 fingers up at the threat at the government and local authorities and fly the flag of St George – and say fuck you, the same as the English have done for 1000 years, oh and there are a group of fascist bigoted racists that fly the flag as a symbol of their hatred and contempt.
Also there are records that show Muslims settled in the UK in the 7th Century!
But this is just my take on it, dare say there are 1000 of other views and opinions.

 

[Bbucko]

I came across a vid from The Guardian today about the EDL: scary stuff.

 

[Rugbypup]

Anyone on facebook, especially in the UK, must have seen these groups.

For those who dont, they are usually full of posts like

"Yeh, i Fink dat we shud kik out da Pakis cos dey be takin al da benfits init"

These are fueled by right wing media stories that "immigrants are getting complaining about the St George's Flag and councils are doing it"

These are of course Bollocks as they know that a story like this will sell papers to our beautifully Xenophobic country.

What are your views on people flying the flag in the UK?

Mostly, when i see them on cars i think "Racist, ill-educated, dick head". Unfortunately, 99% of the time, i seem to be right.

England has forgotten what national identity and national pride means. It's been marred with Nazi notions of racism, xenophobia or good old fashioned political incorrectness.

As a nation, England has been taught to accept and identify our nationality as "British", in reference the the United Kingdom of Great Britain. Great Britain or the UK is made up of four distinctly unique countries. England, N.Ireland, Scotland and Wales, four national identities, flags, cultures, customs and histories.

Ask a Welshman if he's British?

Ask a Scotsman if he's British?

Once you got up off the floor and got the stitches you most urgently needed, I'm sure you will come to understand the answer is most vehemently no.

So if three of the kingdoms nations can hold an individual identity, why are the English forced to wear the now "yoke" of British? It seems to have left many nationals dispossessed with regards to identity. Such dispossession breeds contempt and resentment. A nation with a large population of resentful people is a very dangerous thing, if history has shown us nothing else.

I've spent a few years now down under and it has really put the whole UK, xenophobia and national identity crisis arguments into perspective for me.

I've worked a number of events here and 99% of them involve the singing of the national anthem and the celebrating of national identity. Not to the dogmatic extent of the Americans who are so insular in their patriotism it's offensive and neither embarrassed and fearful of it as the English.

I wonder how many kids in the UK can sing the national anthem? I wonder how many understand the difference between British and English?

Here, you are accepted as a foreign national but also acknowledged as not being a native national. There is no racist or xenophobic bollocks involved, just simply fact. I'm English in New Zealand, not Kiwi in New Zealand as such and until such time I that obtain citizenship, I am not entitled to the same rights as a born national.

Most notable of which, if I could not support myself here, I would be deported no questions asked. I would be seen as a foreign national whose become an expensive drain on the system depriving nations and treated as such, hence removed. I would be England's problem not New Zealand's.

...and do you know what, rightly so!

Is it racist, no, because I would be treated the same as any race in the same situation.

Is it politically incorrect or xenophobic to hold the interests of your nations nationals as a priority? Again, no. What's wrong with national self respect?

This to me is what it seems we have lost and confused in England and frankly what is the result?

Nick Clegg defends decision not to deport terror suspects - Telegraph

With this so clearly in mind it is no understatement to say England has become so weak, confused and fearful of it's national identity, it no long defense it as proudly once it did.

England is a tolerant, accepting and accommodating country, it is not over run with hordes of foreign nationals bleeding the country dry. Though many are so worried of being labeled a racist, a xenophobe, a bigot, a Nazi that we allow much to pass unchallenged and unchecked when faced with issues and arguments of nationality and identity.

If we do not address this, the future looks bleak for an Englishman in England, that much I do believe is true.

I have no problem with the St George's cross, it is the flag of England, not the Union flag and is a symbol that should unite the common pride and good of the nation.

I have no problem with the Union flag, it represent the history and achievement of four nations working as one.

I do have a massive fucking problem with those who think it is solely a symbol of thick arse chav wankers, football thugs and far right politically extremists and allow it to be accepted as such both home and abroad.

My county's flag(s) are not Nazi emblems! We should be ashamed to allow it to be accepted so.

 

[freyasworld]

England has forgotten what national identity and national pride means. It's been marred with Nazi notions of racism, xenophobia or good old fashioned political incorrectness.

As a nation, England has been taught to accept and identify our nationality as "British", in reference the the United Kingdom of Great Britain. Great Britain or the UK is made up of four distinctly unique countries. England, N.Ireland, Scotland and Wales, four national identities, flags, cultures, customs and histories.

Ask a Welshman if he's British?

Ask a Scotsman if he's British?

Once you got up off the floor and got the stitches you most urgently needed, I'm sure you will come to understand the answer is most vehemently no.

So if three of the kingdoms nations can hold an individual identity, why are the English forced to wear the now "yoke" of British? It seems to have left many nationals dispossessed with regards to identity. Such dispossession breeds contempt and resentment. A nation with a large population of resentful people is a very dangerous thing, if history has shown us nothing else.

I've spent a few years now down under and it has really put the whole UK, xenophobia and national identity crisis arguments into perspective for me.

I've worked a number of events here and 99% of them involve the singing of the national anthem and the celebrating of national identity. Not to the dogmatic extent of the Americans who are so insular in their patriotism it's offensive and neither embarrassed and fearful of it as the English.

I wonder how many kids in the UK can sing the national anthem? I wonder how many understand the difference between British and English?

Here, you are accepted as a foreign national but also acknowledged as not being a native national. There is no racist or xenophobic bollocks involved, just simply fact. I'm English in New Zealand, not Kiwi in New Zealand as such and until such time I that obtain citizenship, I am not entitled to the same rights as a born national.

Most notable of which, if I could not support myself here, I would be deported no questions asked. I would be seen as a foreign national whose become an expensive drain on the system depriving nations and treated as such, hence removed. I would be England's problem no New Zealand's.

...and do you know what, rightly so!

Is it racist, no, because I would be treated the same as any race in the same situation.

Is it politically incorrect or xenophobic to hold the interests of your nations nation as a priority? Again, no.

This to me is what seems what we have lost and confused in England and frankly what is the result?

Nick Clegg defends decision not to deport terror suspects - Telegraph

With this so clearly in mind it is no understatement to say England has become so weak, confused and fearful of it's national identity, it no long defense it as proudly once it did.

England is a tolerant, accepting and accommodating country, it is not over run with hordes of foreign nationals bleeding the country dry. Many are so worried of being labeled a racist, an xenophobe, a bigot, a Nazi that we allow much to pass unchallenged and unchecked when faced with issues and arguments of nationality and identity.

If we do not address this, the future looks bleak for an Englishman in England, that much I do believe is true.

I have no problem with the St George's cross, it is the flag of England, not the Union flag and is a symbol that should unite the common pride and good of the nation.

I have no problem with the Union flag, it represent the history and achievement of four nations working as one.

I do have a massive fucking problem with those who think it is solely a symbol of thick arse chav wankers, football thugs and far right politically extremists and allow it to be accepted as such both home and abroad.

My county's flag(s) are not Nazi emblems! We should be ashamed to allow it to be accepted so.

well said

 

[Rugbypup]

I came across a vid from The Guardian today about the EDL: scary stuff.

I'm not sure I've ever been so ashamed of my countrymen or my government.



Many saw this happening just round the corner and we were labeled doomsayers, bigots, told it could never, would never happen in England.

Well it has been allowed to happen, when so much could have, should have been done to prevent it.

I'm not talking about giving credence to extreme xenophobic and racist demands, I talking about repairing the sense of national identity and pride so shit like this would never have been felt necessary.

Where does the hated end? Islamic extremists? Foreign nationals? Nationals of different racial origins? Homosexuality? Your neighbor?


"In England's green and pleasant land"
William Blake

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

As a nation, England has been taught to accept and identify our nationality as "British", in reference the the United Kingdom of Great Britain. Great Britain or the UK is made up of four distinctly unique countries. England, N.Ireland, Scotland and Wales, four national identities, flags, cultures, customs and histories.

Well in fact it's called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. But more of that below. The Union in question being the Union between Great Britain (England, Wales, and Scotland) with Ireland, now reduced to Northern Ireland.

Ask a Welshman if he's British?

Ask a Scotsman if he's British?

Once you got up off the floor and got the stitches you most urgently needed, I'm sure you will come to understand the answer is most vehemently no.

That's an extraordinarily broad generalisation. It ignores the reality that there will be plenty of Scots Unionists and others, and welsh people who do in fact happily identify as British, just as there are a substantial majority of people in Northern Ireland who happily call themselves British. What proportion of the populations of these countries would identify in this way is a rather fluid thing, and it's worth remembering that there are large populations of Welsh and Scots and Irish in England who probably also have a fluid relationship with the concept of Britishness.

So if three of the kingdoms nations can hold an individual identity, why are the English forced to wear the now "yoke" of British? It seems to have left many nationals dispossessed with regards to identity. Such dispossession breeds contempt and resentment. A nation with a large population of resentful people is a very dangerous thing, if history has shown us nothing else.

There are two Kingdoms in the UK, one Principality and one semi-autonomous region. England has been described as seething with discontent and and alienation on so many occasions in its history it's hard to find a period when it wasn't. Has that resentment driven politics? Perhaps, but you might also say that it simply suits certain views of England to see the politics of any period as being driven by these forces regardless of whether that's true or not.

England is a tolerant, accepting and accommodating country, it is not over run with hordes of foreign nationals bleeding the country dry. Though many are so worried of being labeled a racist, a xenophobe, a bigot, a Nazi that we allow much to pass unchallenged and unchecked when faced with issues and arguments of nationality and identity.

I completely agree with you, England is a very tolerant and accommodating country these days. there is a natural and some would say well deserved fear of English cultural identity, especially when that identity is viewed in its historical context.

I have no problem with the Union flag, it represent the history and achievement of four nations working as one.

That's most assuredly not the case, there are many (though certainly not a majority) who view the Union Jack as an anachronism at best or as a symbol of the violent expansionism of England which forced Wales, Ireland and Scotland in to a Union which none of them would otherwise have joined and in which they were exploited and made second class by an overbearing English government.

As I said before, I don't think either of these views is a majority, and I do think it's a shrinking minority who do think this, but I think they have every reason to think it nonetheless, just as you have every reason to view the Union Flag in the way you do.

I do have a massive fucking problem with those who think it is solely a symbol of thick arse chav wankers, football thugs and far right politically extremists and allow it to be accepted as such both home and abroad.

My county's flag(s) are not Nazi emblems! We should be ashamed to allow it to be accepted so.

Well I completely agree with you here, there's no reason to associate any of the UK's emblems and flags with fascism and the connection is a shameful one. And it's all the more unfair considering Britain and England's contribution to the downfall of Nazism. I do think the Union Flag and the Cross of St. George should be rehabilitated completely and cleansed of their association with racism and thuggery.

 

[Rugbypup]

Well in fact it's called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. But more of that below. The Union in question being the Union between Great Britain (England, Wales, and Scotland) with Ireland, now reduced to Northern Ireland.

My point was that the many of people do not seem to understand that we are not one single country. In NZ there is much confusion with some thinking that the UK, GB and England are three separate countries and do not understand the interrelationship of the name. Many 'Brits' seem to also fall into that category to.

That's an extraordinarily broad generalisation. It ignores the reality that there will be plenty of Scots Unionists and others, and welsh people who do in fact happily identify as British, just as there are a substantial majority of people in Northern Ireland who happily call themselves British. What proportion of the populations of these countries would identify in this way is a rather fluid thing, and it's worth remembering that there are large populations of Welsh and Scots and Irish in England who probably also have a fluid relationship with the concept of Britishness.

The fluidity of identity is a bit of a cop out frankly. British is nearly always second to Irish, Welsh and Scottish in regards to identification to nationality, with exception to N.Ireland. For the other nations, I'm not saying they deny being British, I'm saying it's generally not their first acknowledgment. The biggest identity distinction would be the accents. Speaking with a Welsh, Scottish or Irish accent does not invoke the question, what part of Britain are you from?

There are two Kingdoms in the UK, one Principality and one semi-autonomous region. England has been described as seething with discontent and and alienation on so many occasions in its history it's hard to find a period when it wasn't. Has that resentment driven politics? Perhaps, but you might also say that it simply suits certain views of England to see the politics of any period as being driven by these forces regardless of whether that's true or not.

England's history is long and bloody. We are indeed one of the first multi cultural melting pot societies in history. Wars, invasions and all sorts of conflicts have indeed shaped and define us into what many have come to call the mother of bastard nations. Though history is as statistics, it may be lent in any direction depending on the intent of the argument, I completely agree. In modern view though, I would argue we are now seen as one kingdom of four nations, although how we got there seems left to distant history in Joe publics opinion.

I completely agree with you, England is a very tolerant and accommodating country these days. there is a natural and some would say well deserved fear of English cultural identity, especially when that identity is viewed in its historical context.

The sun never set on the British Empire. We murdered, butchered and raped our way around the world and we are still resented for it by many indigenous peoples. The Irish, Maori, Aborigines... the list goes on. I have encountered historical resentments first hand since living down under. It has surprised me how much the history of England is perceived in place of it's current identity.

Which is it to be, a once great nation of bloody conquers serving God, queen and country or a nation of chavs and sheep serving Apple, Burberry and football.

But we are not the only nation with history. The Spanish, French, Germans Italians, Dutch and Scandinavians all have their fair share of blood soaked chapters in history. It seems one nation has reason to fear nearly another other, if you want to look back far enough.

That's most assuredly not the case, there are many (though certainly not a majority) who view the Union Jack as an anachronism at best or as a symbol of the violent expansionism of England which forced Wales, Ireland and Scotland in to a Union which none of them would otherwise have joined and in which they were exploited and made second class by an overbearing English government.

This could be said for ten or so nation who still bares the emblem on their flag. If it was still such a symbol of rape and pillage, it can just as easily be removed as most if not all are independent of England and the empire is long dead. Many seem to have a sense of identity with the connection it represents to England, be that of today or of a bygone era, which has mellowed since the days of force colonialism.

I believe the Union flag to Britain today is an accepted symbol of nations together than of it's bloody, power hungry history.

Well I completely agree with you here, there's no reason to associate any of the UK's emblems and flags with fascism and the connection is a shameful one. And it's all the more unfair considering Britain and England's contribution to the downfall of Nazism. I do think the Union Flag and the Cross of St. George should be rehabilitated completely and cleansed of their association with racism and thuggery.

I agree. It's my hope that as a nation, we will progress without further shaming ourselves, our country of our national identity.

 

[B_Nick4444]

England has forgotten what national identity and national pride means. It's been marred with Nazi notions of racism, xenophobia or good old fashioned political incorrectness.

As a nation, England has been taught to accept and identify our nationality as "British", in reference the the United Kingdom of Great Britain. Great Britain or the UK is made up of four distinctly unique countries. England, N.Ireland, Scotland and Wales, four national identities, flags, cultures, customs and histories.

Ask a Welshman if he's British?

Ask a Scotsman if he's British?

Once you got up off the floor and got the stitches you most urgently needed, I'm sure you will come to understand the answer is most vehemently no.

So if three of the kingdoms nations can hold an individual identity, why are the English forced to wear the now "yoke" of British? It seems to have left many nationals dispossessed with regards to identity. Such dispossession breeds contempt and resentment. A nation with a large population of resentful people is a very dangerous thing, if history has shown us nothing else.

I've spent a few years now down under and it has really put the whole UK, xenophobia and national identity crisis arguments into perspective for me.

I've worked a number of events here and 99% of them involve the singing of the national anthem and the celebrating of national identity. Not to the dogmatic extent of the Americans who are so insular in their patriotism it's offensive and neither embarrassed and fearful of it as the English.

I wonder how many kids in the UK can sing the national anthem? I wonder how many understand the difference between British and English?

Here, you are accepted as a foreign national but also acknowledged as not being a native national. There is no racist or xenophobic bollocks involved, just simply fact. I'm English in New Zealand, not Kiwi in New Zealand as such and until such time I that obtain citizenship, I am not entitled to the same rights as a born national.

Most notable of which, if I could not support myself here, I would be deported no questions asked. I would be seen as a foreign national whose become an expensive drain on the system depriving nations and treated as such, hence removed. I would be England's problem not New Zealand's.

...and do you know what, rightly so!

Is it racist, no, because I would be treated the same as any race in the same situation.

Is it politically incorrect or xenophobic to hold the interests of your nations nationals as a priority? Again, no. What's wrong with national self respect?

This to me is what it seems we have lost and confused in England and frankly what is the result?

Nick Clegg defends decision not to deport terror suspects - Telegraph

With this so clearly in mind it is no understatement to say England has become so weak, confused and fearful of it's national identity, it no long defense it as proudly once it did.

England is a tolerant, accepting and accommodating country, it is not over run with hordes of foreign nationals bleeding the country dry. Though many are so worried of being labeled a racist, a xenophobe, a bigot, a Nazi that we allow much to pass unchallenged and unchecked when faced with issues and arguments of nationality and identity.

If we do not address this, the future looks bleak for an Englishman in England, that much I do believe is true.

I have no problem with the St George's cross, it is the flag of England, not the Union flag and is a symbol that should unite the common pride and good of the nation.

I have no problem with the Union flag, it represent the history and achievement of four nations working as one.

I do have a massive fucking problem with those who think it is solely a symbol of thick arse chav wankers, football thugs and far right politically extremists and allow it to be accepted as such both home and abroad.

My county's flag(s) are not Nazi emblems! We should be ashamed to allow it to be accepted so.

hope the American libs read this and understand

bravo!

 

[Drifterwood]

Are England in the world cup then?