If Romney really can't remember...

balsary

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I had no intent of linking to the book, I was even uneasy mentioning it.

It does however relate in that the President has 1 known incident and may have others which we haven't been told of. In general people running for public office don't go into details about their past misdeeds from before they were adults if no legal actions were ever taken.

As to the Romney matter, he may be in even worse shape if it turns out he is now lying. I say this because John Lauber's family is questioning the accuracy.

Whoa: Family of Romney’s Alleged Bullying “Victim” Says Story Inaccurate, They’re Disgusted by WaPo | The American Pundit

The family never said the incident didn't happen, just that the story is inaccurate. Nowhere does it mention how the story is inaccurate.

I will say that the website you got the story from seemed really unbiased though. :rolleyes:
 

Hoss

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The family never said the incident didn't happen, just that the story is inaccurate. Nowhere does it mention how the story is inaccurate.

I will say that the website you got the story from seemed really unbiased though. :rolleyes:

There are several OTHER links. Enter the name John Lauber in news searches. I gave that link only because it did not have any images of a young Lauber or Romney and they might have been under age.

Even ABC news last night reported that the Lauber family was not happy with this and regarded it as someone using it for a political agenda (although they did not say who).
 

sillystring

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How does Mitt reconcile these 2 statements:

"I don't remember the incident"

and

"We didn't know the boy was gay"

Easy, he remembers a fellow classmate but not the particulars of this event. By your logic it's impossible to remember a person you went to school with but not remember every interaction you had with that person.

The two statements are independent of one-another. The "We" means Mr. Romney and his friends.

What a classic group of wordsmiths. This event is representative of absolutely nothing. Make that molehill into a mountain if you must, let's the Republicans focus on issues voters will actually care about.

Water-cooler gossip like this is for the sensationalist TV crowd who won't be voting anyway.
 

balsary

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Easy, he remembers a fellow classmate but not the particulars of this event. By your logic it's impossible to remember a person you went to school with but not remember every interaction you had with that person.

The two statements are independent of one-another. The "We" means Mr. Romney and his friends.

What a classic group of wordsmiths. This event is representative of absolutely nothing. Make that molehill into a mountain if you must, let's the Republicans focus on issues voters will actually care about.

Water-cooler gossip like this is for the sensationalist TV crowd who won't be voting anyway.

I'm pretty sure most of the people involved in this thread are voters, and this topic seems to be something that they care about. If what you meant was "Let the Republicans focus on the issues Republicans care about" then I understand your logic.

I don't know you Sillystring nor do I claim to. I imagine you're similar to me though in the fact that you don't like to be told what you should and should not care about. If your purpose was to come in here and have your point of view heard, then you failed. At least in my case. If you don't think the story is important, by all means, tell me why. I'm a rational human being. If what you say makes sense, there's a good chance my opinion can be swayed.

My opinion is that it would be very difficult to remember a specific individual and what you thought his sexual orientation was, but not be able to remember an attack of this nature on the same individual. If we were debating whether Romney remembers sitting next to the guy on any given date where nothing extraordinary happened I could see your point.
 

ConanTheBarber

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I've been wondering about this for months. It is possible that he was lying when he was espousing moderate views when he run for the Senate against Ted Kennedy in the nineties and again as Governor of a generally liberal state. Maybe the more right-wing positions he is now taking are truer to his core.

I don't believe that, myself. I think the main change is in the Republican Party since the emergence of the Tea Party. There's was far more room for moderation among Republicans in 1994 and even as recently as 2002, when he ran for governor. He might have tacked a bit to the left, but I think he was not yet the totally plastic candidate that we've seen over the past couple of years.
Just my hunch, vince.

The man always seems to speak to the situation and not from any firm set of beliefs. He tells you what he thinks you want to hear. I don't think it much of a stretch to think that these are lifelong patterns. One of my brothers is the same and has been since he was a little kid.

You could be right. But I think he has more core than we've been seeing. That's why he never seems quite comfortable doing it, imo.

Missionary, venture capitalist, politician. These are endeavours that such a personality would excel at.

I'm not sure he's a natural as a politician.
(That said, he is the presumptive Republican nominee.)
 

ConanTheBarber

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Plz that asswipe remembers, hell he probably even jackoffs to the memory of him being so evil. You don't NOT remember something and while talking about it, especially actions that were so egregious to another human, chuckle while denying your memory......... Unless of course, if you're psychotic and ROMNEY does indeed fit the profile perfectly of a psychopath.


HH

I think he seems like anything but a psychopath.
Psychopaths are not ill at ease. They are not tugged here and there by doubts.
If anything, Romney seems more towards the neurotic end of the scale.
 

ConanTheBarber

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You're confusing the social Romney with the real Romney .
Well, obviously, like you, the only person I'm seeing is the social Romney, a person who has lots of self-doubt, worries about how he is perceived, very ill at ease, a bit of a ditz.
None of these traits suggest psychopathy.

If you read about the tendencies towards Psychopathy, Romney definitely fits most. (see the PCLR test link )
I'm quite interested in psychopathy and in narcissism, a related disorder.
To me, Romney just doesn't 'ring' as a psychopath at all.
The tone is all wrong.

What he does seems to be is a politician ... a rather inept one, which is surprising given that he was a governor and is now certain to be the Republican nominee.
 

B_Nick8

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As many have said, it's both preposterous and absurd to believe that Romney remembers the classmate but not the assault. I can't believe anyone could forget an incident of such brutal violence. But what struck me as even more disingenuous was his claim that it was the 60s and "we didn't even think about things like that", referring to homosexuality, and then going on to say he didn't even know the kid was gay because he "was in the closet" This is deflection of the highest degree. Bullying for suspected gayness in High School is a cherished tradition among bullies and besides, almost no one admitted being gay, especially in those years. He goes on not to answer the direct question about walking his blind teacher into a door as one of his other high-spirited larks. So his entire statement is crap.

As for Obama's peccadilloes, they're pretty easy to forgive, primarily because they were self-admitted. Whether he pushed a little girl as a nine year old or smoked some pot and did a little coke in college, he put it on the table, not the news media or the Romney camp. And should they come up with something (and you know they're digging as hard as they can and have for the last 5 years), I'm reasonably sure Barack will just admit it and not play the "I don't remember-I didn't know-But I'm still sorry if I did card.

Yes, I think being a bigoted bully as a youth and an unremorseful, disingenuous adult are factors that should be very much taken into account when voting. They reflect extremely poorly on the ways and kinds of decisions this man would make.
 
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monel

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But what struck me as even more disingenuous was his claim that it was the 60s and "we didn't even think about things like that", referring to homosexuality, and then going on to say he didn't even know the kid was gay because he "was in the closet" This is deflection of the highest degree. Bullying for suspected gayness in High School is a cherished tradition among bullies ...

Apparently Mitt never heard about the Oscar Wilde trials. I think they occurred a little before the 1960's.
 

sillystring

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..... an incident of such brutal violence. .

:p

I'm pretty sure most of us know that this is a ploy, and that this "brutal violence" was nothing more than forcing conformity on a non-conformist in a 1960's era prep-school.

If this was such a huge issue to his character and morality, why now, the week after Gay rights became a hot button topic? Why not when he was being elected Governor? Because it didn't matter to an agenda then but somehow it does now.

Funny how his friends back in the day could sit idly by during Mr. Romney's political career, anguish in their belly, until this moment... This was the moment their will to hold onto such a bitter tasting past event, this attack on a defenseless boy, broke entirely.

I mean the fact that these HS pals came out on this issue right in line with the Gay Marriage discussion, that's no coincidence at all.

Not that any of you self-licking ice creams in here is going to validate my response, but in any case here it's posted in defiance to your stand that this topic merritts discussion further. If High School kids were running the White House I'd understand your points, but they don't and your points are invalid.
 

monel

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Not that any of you self-licking ice creams in here is going to validate my response, but in any case here it's posted in defiance to your stand that this topic merritts discussion further.

You are right in this regard, I wouldn't dream of validating your response. In fact I repudiate it. I reject your premise that this was merely a societal endeavor to enforce conformity to the rules. This was a primordial attack on a weaker prey. I'd love to know how brave junior Mitt would've been if it was a 225lb linebacker who was flouting convention. I don't believe that the incident in and of itself should be used to define the 65 year old Romney even tbough I think his response to it should be. But lets not try to re-define what the attack was.

By the if you way, if you called me a self licking ice cream in real life, I'd beat the living shit out of you. And I'm generally a non violent kinda guy. Maybe you should moderate the language you choose to use. Just because you're anonymous and online doesn't mean all civility needs to be thrown to the wind.
 

dandelion

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I'm pretty sure most of us know that this is a ploy, and that this "brutal violence" was nothing more than forcing conformity on a non-conformist in a 1960's era prep-school.
So they approve of school bullying in the US then? Or for that matter, approve of forcing conformity on non-conformists? Oh havnt things changed since all those political exiles and refugees arrived.

If this was such a huge issue to his character and morality, why now, the week after Gay rights became a hot button topic?
since you put it like that, I imagine because someone thinks it relevant he is the sort of chap that beats up gays?

Why not when he was being elected Governor? Because it didn't matter to an agenda then but somehow it does now.
I dont know the mans history, but someone posted here his official position has moved significantly to the right. If he was acting considerably more gay friendly when running for governor, perhaps people thought he had got over a youthful tendency to beat up gays. But you are perfectly right, different issues become topical at different times and therefore people discuss them.

Funny how his friends back in the day could sit idly by during Mr. Romney's political career, anguish in their belly, until this moment...
Not at all. In social issues like this times move on and people come to realise something once acceptable is now not. As has been said, Mr Romney's views now are perhaps more the issue than what he thought then, but he is in effect being asked to judge his own youthful behaviour. In some school in the US right now this same scene is being re enacted. So what the president thinks does matter.
 

sillystring

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You are right in this regard, I wouldn't dream of validating your response. In fact I repudiate it. I reject your premise that this was merely a societal endeavor to enforce conformity to the rules. This was a primordial attack on a weaker prey. I'd love to know how brave junior Mitt would've been if it was a 225lb linebacker who was flouting convention. I don't believe that the incident in and of itself should be used to define the 65 year old Romney even tbough I think his response to it should be. But lets not try to re-define what the attack was.

By the if you way, if you called me a self licking ice cream in real life, I'd beat the living shit out of you. And I'm generally a non violent kinda guy. Maybe you should moderate the language you choose to use. Just because you're anonymous and online doesn't mean all civility needs to be thrown to the wind.

You'd beat the living shit out of me? Oh gosh, please continue internet tough guy. And yes, a topic where there is no dissent is a self-licking one. Don't agree with me, fine, threaten physical violence...well there's the way to win a discussion. Maybe you should learn to grow up and not care what someone says?

And let me know when you write up your op-ed on your eye-witness account of the "attack" from 45 years ago. I've been bullied and 20+ years on I, the person experiencing the event, can't recall who did what or what really happened... maybe if I was gay I'd be more cognizant of the details.. I doubt it though.
 
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B_Nick8

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You'd beat the living shit out of me? Oh gosh, please continue internet tough guy. And yes, a topic where there is no dissent is a self-licking one. Don't agree with me, fine, threaten physical violence...well there's the way to win a discussion. Maybe you should learn to grow up and not care what someone says?

And let me know when you write up your op-ed on your eye-witness account of the "attack" from 45 years ago. I've been bullied and 20+ years on I, the person experiencing the event, can't recall who did what or what really happened... maybe if I was gay I'd be more cognizant of the details.. I doubt it though.

Maybe you didn't read the part where the other 5 guys involved in the assault and battery all vividly remember it. All confirmed that Mitt led it. All expressed deep regret and the wish to be able to have apologized to the victim, but unfortunately he died of cancer some years ago. All described the victim as shaking and crying and being terrified during the incident. But Mitt "doesn't remember"? Of course he doesn't. He's running for President. And all of his friends express remorse? Apparently they've evolved over the years. Mitt hasn't. This speaks volumes about the character and mindset of a man whom many would like to see run this country.

So that makes him disingenuous and a liar. And a gay basher and a bully, traits that are extremely difficult to exorcize without some therapy, which you can be sure he's never had. I'm sure his faith in the absurdity of Mormonism--something he, again, never talks about--has absolved him entirely but we'll never hear how or why. A Catholic would explain it, I'm sure. Personally, I'd like to see you take your gay-liberal bashing and put it where Mitt has apparently put his.
 
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B_Nick8

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You are right in this regard, I wouldn't dream of validating your response. In fact I repudiate it. I reject your premise that this was merely a societal endeavor to enforce conformity to the rules. This was a primordial attack on a weaker prey. I'd love to know how brave junior Mitt would've been if it was a 225lb linebacker who was flouting convention. I don't believe that the incident in and of itself should be used to define the 65 year old Romney even tbough I think his response to it should be. But lets not try to re-define what the attack was.

By the if you way, if you called me a self licking ice cream in real life, I'd beat the living shit out of you. And I'm generally a non violent kinda guy. Maybe you should moderate the language you choose to use. Just because you're anonymous and online doesn't mean all civility needs to be thrown to the wind.

P.S. Loved this post, you "internet tough guy". And, btw, I don't imagine you make statements you can't back up irl. :wink:
 

sillystring

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I'd like to see you take your gay-liberal bashing and put it where Mitt has apparently put his.

And THAT's how I know exactly where this topic comes from. So disagreeing with anyone in this thread makes me a gay-liberal basher? Touche, I thought that'd be a harder label to apply. What makes me a gay-liberal basher and you not a heterophobe? Time of day? Overcast or sunny?

And the cute little quip about not being able to back up my viewpoints.. that's neat. That come from your extensive knowledge about me and my history and my current employment? That the same feedbag of dismissive stereotyping you're applying right here in this thread and this forum?

People are going to dissent with your viewpoint, especially a viewpoint as shabbily constructed as this one is.

As with this discussion you are talking out of your ass.
 

B_Nick8

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And THAT's how I know exactly where this topic comes from. So disagreeing with anyone in this thread makes me a gay-liberal basher? Touche, I thought that'd be a harder label to apply. What makes me a gay-liberal basher and you not a heterophobe? Time of day? Overcast or sunny?

And the cute little quip about not being able to back up my viewpoints.. that's neat. That come from your extensive knowledge about me and my history and my current employment? That the same feedbag of dismissive stereotyping you're applying right here in this thread and this forum?

People are going to dissent with your viewpoint, especially a viewpoint as shabbily constructed as this one is.

As with this discussion you are talking out of your ass.

You apparently have no idea about where this topic comes from. Just as I have little knowledge about you beyond your posts, none about your history, and couldn't be less interested in your employment history. Unless that makes you bitter for some reason, in which case I'd understand that it gives you a slant.

I have no problem whatsoever with people disagreeing with my viewpoints and appreciate open debate. I do, however, bristle at sarcasm, poorly veiled insults and snark, things that seem to ring out in everything you've posted in this thread. If you re-read your posts and can't see the anti-gay and anti-liberal biases and, frankly, anger level you show, I'd be surprised because you come across as a reasonably intelligent individual. But, then, some people just can't see the forest for the trees.

FYI, I'm typing with my fingers but I'll bet you knew that already.