If someone dislikes femine-men gay or straight does that make them a homophobe?

SyddyKitty

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No - disliking something is a matter of preference. I'm not beef-phobic... I just don't like it. Now pork, on the other hand... I can't even try a ham sandwich without puking because my head is stuck in the stigma surrounding pork I was raised with. THAT is a phobia in its clearest sense.
 

dolfette

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no, it's not a simple like or dislike issue if the person in question is verbally attacking people for features or a manner they cannot help. it's still discrimination, it's just a different form of discrimination.
 

kurios

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I am less than comfortable with men exhibiting mannerisms usually associated with women and likewise with women exhibiting mannerisms usually considered masculine.
Don't dislike either though because it is the mannerisms not the person.
Don't see a connection between mannerisms and the gay-straight factor either therefor the phobia doesn't enter the equation.
 

monel

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Gecko said that his gay friend "hates" feminine guys but becuse his friend apparently holds no animosity towards gays in general, Gecko doesn't think it makes his friend homophobic. You, Hilaire, said that in your opinion, Gecko's friend's "hate" of feminine guys fits the definition of a phobia but whether it constitutes homophobia "is debatable". That is essentially my point. Maybe a person's dislike of effeminate men is a manifestation or consequence of his homophobia, but it does not necessarily follow that that is the case.
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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Gecko said that his gay friend "hates" feminine guys but becuse his friend apparently holds no animosity towards gays in general, Gecko doesn't think it makes his friend homophobic. You, Hilaire, said that in your opinion, Gecko's friend's "hate" of feminine guys fits the definition of a phobia but whether it constitutes homophobia "is debatable". That is essentially my point. Maybe a person's dislike of effeminate men is a manifestation or consequence of his homophobia, but it does not necessarily follow that that is the case.



Ah, OK well the reason I said it was debatable in the instance Gecko described (in which his friend Bobby is Gay) is that some people (though I'm not among them) claim that it's not possible to be homosexual and homophobic.

Naturally I don't subscribe to that view, but some do, hence the debate.

It really doesn't actually matter whether or not a person's dislike of effeminacy is a manifestation of their personal homophobia or not though. In the same way that it may not be because of innate misogyny that an individual dislikes tomboys it remains a misogynistic dislike.


In effect it doesn't matter what your feelings are about homosexuality if you publicly avow and state a hate or dislike of effeminacy then you are contributing to a social climate which views effeminacy as objectionable and since a cultural connection is made (quite wrongly) between homosexuality and effeminacy then you are contributing to the further stigmatisation of homosexuality.
 
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Endued

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Well it's still not a yes until you throw a "probably" into the equation, really. Too broad a brush stroke.
 

hockeysweat

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not saying i dont like feminine men, i dont care at all. But is it homophobia to verbally attack men based on feminine features they may have? even if your okay with masculine gay men?

This is the OP's question. There's a world of difference between preferring butch guys to verbally attacking a fem guy. Whether it's considered homophobic or sexist/misogynistic is, to me, an open question. But it's definitely a problem. People attack others, verbally or physically, because they feel threatened. So in figuring out the correct word to describe a person's hateful response to fem guys, I think the key question is: what is so threatening to you about that guy with the lisp and the limp wrist?
 

monel

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Ah, OK well the reason I said it was debatable in the instance Gecko described (in which his friend Bobby is Gay) is that some people (though I'm not among them) claim that it's not possible to be homosexual and homophobic.

Naturally I don't subscribe to that view, but some do, hence the debate.

It really doesn't actually matter whether or not a person's dislike of effeminacy is a manifestation of their personal homophobia or not though. In the same way that it may not be because of innate misogyny that an individual dislikes tomboys it remains a misogynistic dislike.


In effect it doesn't matter what your feelings are about homosexuality if you publicly avow and state a hate or dislike of effeminacy then you are contributing to a social climate which views effeminacy as objectionable and since a cultural connection is made (quite wrongly) between homosexuality and effeminacy then you are contributing to the further stigmatisation of homosexuality.

In the same way that it may not be because of innate misogyny that an individual dislikes tomboys it remains a misogynistic dislike.

This statement I don't agree with. I think that a person's dislike of Tomboys is too narrow to be labled per se misogenystic. After all the individual may hold no animosity or hate for woman in general.

In effect it doesn't matter what your feelings are about homosexuality if you publicly avow and state a hate or dislike of effeminacy then you are contributing to a social climate which views effeminacy as objectionable and since a cultural connection is made (quite wrongly) between homosexuality and effeminacy then you are contributing to the further stigmatisation of homosexuality.

A a practical matter, I agree with you here. I think such an overt hatred for effeminate men can - and I would argue does - serve to contribute to homophobia in society whether the hater is strickly homophobic or not.
 

Endued

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So you prefer to split hairs? To what end? If your views contribute towards cultural prejudices against homosexuals those views are homophobic.

I'm not trying to split hairs, I really am perfectly happy with the answer of "no"!
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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This is the OP's question. There's a world of difference between preferring butch guys to verbally attacking a fem guy. Whether it's considered homophobic or sexist/misogynistic is, to me, an open question. But it's definitely a problem. People attack others, verbally or physically, because they feel threatened. So in figuring out the correct word to describe a person's hateful response to fem guys, I think the key question is: what is so threatening to you about that guy with the lisp and the limp wrist?



Yeah and tbh this ^^^^ whatever your thoughts on the question of homophobia.

It's not OK to verbally abuse someone for simply being themselves if in being themselves they are harming no one else. Just because some people might not define this is a homophobic that does not mean it is acceptable.
 

monel

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It's not OK to verbally abuse someone for simply being themselves if in being themselves they are harming no one else. Just because some people might not define this is a homophobic that does not mean it is acceptable.

I would like to think this goes without saying. In any event, I concur completely.