if the election was held today (UK)
- Thread starter D_Andreas Sukov
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Everyone is opining as if their opinions count. Your votes count for nothing. Governments are decided by foreign owned newspaers: they pander to our prejudices. A man or woman who will vote for a politcian who they know will make their parents work an extra 2 years for a meagre pension, deny their children higher education by making sure only rich kids get to uni, treat our servicemen and servicewomen as mercenaries for US oil companies, then you deserves everything you get.
That's good, since I think it was probably you who told me in the first place! :tongue:
(I was saying that after Cameron ruled out a referendum, Clegg altered his previous idea of joining Labour to form a government - and decided to go with whoever wins the most votes).
They are all as bad as eachother. Labour may have lied about the intelligence but Parliament voted for war. ill probably vote labour simply because they will be easier for me to campaign against when it comes to raising tuition fees. the tories wont give a shit unless its affecting rich kiddies
I have total contempt for political party apologists. Parliament does what the whips tell it to do.
Neither Labour nor Tory have the moral high ground on any important issue. How many Brits will still vote for MPs who are proven liars and thieves in the continuing expenses fiasco - it isn't a scandal because no one is scandalized. I suspect it will be many. Labour is more guilty of turpitide because ethical people used to believe Labour was honest, they with the conivence of Tories have eroded our freedoms to the point where a medieval peasant probably had more rights than we now supposedly have. There needs to be a realignment, but of course the media isn't going to allow them any coverage is it? Westminster is a whorehouse. I repeat, you will get what you deserve.
Neither Labour nor Tory have the moral high ground on any important issue. How many Brits will still vote for MPs who are proven liars and thieves in the continuing expenses fiasco - it isn't a scandal because no one is scandalized. I suspect it will be many. Labour is more guilty of turpitide because ethical people used to believe Labour was honest, they with the conivence of Tories have eroded our freedoms to the point where a medieval peasant probably had more rights than we now supposedly have. There needs to be a realignment, but of course the media isn't going to allow them any coverage is it? Westminster is a whorehouse. I repeat, you will get what you deserve.
we will get what we deserve? what do you mean by that? shall we revolt?
(although i wouldnt mind some sort of mass people movement)
(although i wouldnt mind some sort of mass people movement)
mitchymo
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Arh fuck it, i'm movin to the Netherlands, maybe Katt has a spare room...
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When the Conservatives left office there were free university places for all (there were even unfilled places) and grants which pretty much covered the costs. It is Labour who have taken away free university education, kicking the poor in the teeth. Under the Conservatives there were no tuition fees at all, so nothing to be raised! It is Labour who have screwed the poor kids.
The Conservatives have indicated that they will not go along with the savage university cuts just announced by Mandelson (a massive cut in university funding which universities are supposed to deal with by teaching degrees in two years instead of three). Among all the cuts the Conservatives will be obliged to make I really don't think there will be cuts in Universities. Indeed the Conservatives were interested in the German idea of a fiscal stimulus through investment in education and may actually increase expenditue in this area - which will particularly benefit the poor kids.
Remember that parliament voted for the Iraq war after PM Blair stated that Iraq had WMD which could be targetted on Britain in minutes. Blair was lying. The lie is so outrageously huge hardly anyone realised that it was a lie. It is a shame that the Conservatives didn't, but lets face it, no PM has ever told such a big lie before, and Blair's actions appear to be criminal in both English and International law. After the Iraq enquiry he may well face a court.
I just don't see how anyone can vote Labour. I can understand Con, Lib Dem, SNP, PC, DUP, UUP, SDLP UKIP. I find it very sad that people vote Sinn Fein or BNP but I can just about understand voting for these, while feeling they are wrong. But Labour? What else does a government have to do wrong for people to decide not to vote for them? People vote Sinn Fein and BNP largely because they think these parties support people like them. It is a tribal, ethnic issue. Are we seeing something comparable with the core Labour vote where people feel that Labour represents their identity, and anyone else somehow threatens them? Conservatives represent the rich kids. Lib Dems are Guardian reading professionals. Is it that people belong to the Labour tribe and vote Labour because that is their identity? If this is what we have then voting Labour becomes a matter for sadness, directly comparable with the tribal votes for Sinn Fein and BNP. That is terrible for Labour (once a decent party with decent beliefs) and pretty sad for people who so far feel unable to move on from their previous allegiance.
well, i can see no other party bar tories winning the election. But a yeah from now, we will be saying very similar things, just swapping Labour with tories.
too late, shes asking her dad if they can keep me. then we are going to the park:biggrin1:
Which is why we're now basically ruled by Brussels - cos nobody had the bottle to do anything about it.
Mitchy - Can I come too? :biggrin1:
Lemon - dirty git! She didnt promise to play doctors and nurses with you too, did she?? (only kiddin, Katt).
Jase - I agree in a way. I thought the Tories were awful when last in power, altho the economy was picking up when they left office. I agree with Labour's traditional policies more, but at this moment in time I can't vote for them. Hopefully the Tories have become a bit more humble and aware of everyday people during their spell in the wilderness? But who knows...
So we can ignore human rights and Christians because Labour listens to them; do they hell. Labour politicians are no more ethical than their Tory counterparts, kiss Washingtons feet while having the Chinese government kick its arse. But I guess executing people with bi-polar and learning difficulties is easy to ignore when you are the caring New labour party. I have total contempt for all those who think the sun shines out of Brown's arse.
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Yes I'm pretty shocked by our luke-warm response to China's murder of a British subject. China is throwing its weight around and seeing what it can get away with. And we have given the wrong response. We've made a luke-warm protest which will hardly register in China, and that's it.
Correct action would be to use this abuse of human rights by China against a British subject as an opening for us to help China improve human rights in all areas. We could reasonably be proactive in raising objections on the world stage to China's use of the death penalty. A few years back I visited China and was channel hopping on a hotel television when I came across live television coverage of an execution. It was utterly sickening. I think we can and should protest China's use of the death penalty at every opportunity, and there are real opportunities in terms of signing trade agreements.
We also need to protest China's treatment of non-Chinese ethnic groups particularly the Tibetans and Uighurs, but also the many less well known ethnic groups. We need to protest in the strongest terms the incidents of slavery in China. We need to protest convict labour. China is a quarter of the world's population and the circumstance where a quarter of the world lives under an oppressive regime should concern us all. We do have power.
Of course we also need to protest the death penalty in other coutries too, particularly the USA. Indeed a strong protest might rid Britain of the image of being America's poodle.
The forthcoming Olympics gives Britain a global stage. We could insist that China take part in a process aimed to improve their human rights as a condition for allowing their athletes to compete. We could also encourage/tolerate crowd disruption of the national anthems of any country that permits the death penalty. China is very concerned about face and this has the potential to bring about improvements.
But our present wimp of a PM isn't doing a thing. Vote him out!
Drifterwood
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lol!
i think we need to realise, we are not by any means a bog country any more. if we say to china, "dont do this" why would they listen? they have no reason to. the Olympic threat is a good idea. but if we bar their athletes we would recieve far more pressure from countries then support. to encourgage disruption of national anthems is also a bad idea. that sort of behaviour is not tolerated in any sport. for a government to encourage it of a particular nation would make us look childish
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We in the UK are not as influential as once we were, but we are not without influence either. A proper expression of condemnation by Britain coupled with British efforts on the international stage to request action on Chinese human rights would have some impact. A statement of condemnation of the Chinese murder of a British subject would have particular impact if made by the PM. I think we should do what we can do.
The idea above of some protest related to the Olympics is not thought through, but I do think we need lateral thinking to come up with a response that would have real impact in China. If not this then what? We do officially recognise the independence of Tibet and Xinjiang - maybe we could repeat our existing views. It is a balancing act. Through the Beijing Olympics the world has engaged with China, and of course there has been enormous progress over the last 40 years. We don't want to jeopardise this progress, but that doesn't mean that we have to tolerate all misbehaviour by China. Indeed to tolerate it slows down necessary change in China, and increases the time for which a quarter of the world's population lives under a repressive regime.
Within the topic of this thread the key issue is that Gord the Gormless has (yet again) failed to show leadership. He is not fit to govern.
Within the topic of this thread the key issue is that Gord the Gormless has (yet again) failed to show leadership. He is not fit to govern.
I feel really sorry for him, but I agree. He can't deal with having the buck stop with him. Neither can I, but that's a different story... :tongue:
The prospect of more Gordon, or even worse, more Mandelson is too horrible to contemplate...
