If your husband was cheating...

Tattooed Goddess

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i'm of the opinion that you should bring any clauses in the contract to the other's attention beforehand.

That's what I mean, going to the other person about what you'd like to have them do or not do within reason and if the other person still refuses after being told you will find someone else to do that particular thing, then go for it. Not everyone will agree with me. I don't expect them to.
 

MarkLondon

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So because she has withdrawn from intimacy without honouring her duty to at least discuss it with him then he's carte blanche to go against the previously agreed monogamy? I don't believe that's healthy or fair.

Well I think "withdrawal of affection", as it used to be called (and it has been unilateral and non-negotiable from what I am told) has long been grounds for annulment or divorce. Though I'm not sure that still applies in english law.
 

MarkLondon

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Mark, I'm of the mindset that if you've got to your partner ahead of time about having your needs met within reason and the person still refuses to do so, you have a right to outsource. That's just my opinion.

Yes, I just wish he'd had the foresight to negotiage the right to outsource ahead of time. :frown1:
 

MarkLondon

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There is a feeling of rejection there with both scenarios, male or female lover, but I think I would feel that the rejection wasn't as personal if it was a person of a different gender from me, similar to how I would feel if a man I loved broke up with me and left me for a man instead of a woman. Then there's the betrayal and breaking of my trust on top of that, the cheating part. What I was trying to say before was that the cheating part would still be the same, but I would feel less personally rejected.

I have heard that view expressed by women in the past. But I've also heard the "double betrayal" arguement, where they've been shocked to discover a previously unknown side to their partner's sexuality.

Unless you're asking about what happens after she finds out that he's betrayed her, supposing that he wants to stay with him... Could I have a relationship where the man I love has casual sex with another man? I really hope I never have to find out because thinking about that makes me feel anxious.

In my case, it was seeming to be much more than casual sex, though it was in its early days. What began as a meeting of equals on the internet (before I discovered he was married, although I did know he was bisexual) was rapidly heading (or rushing headlong and unconsideredly) into love affair territory. But love affair, not intentional homewrecking or husband-stealing. Though I can see that intention is not necessary to achieve a disastrous outcome for all concerned.
 
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ManlyBanisters

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Well I think "withdrawal of affection", as it used to be called (and it has been unilateral and non-negotiable from what I am told) has long been grounds for annulment or divorce. Though I'm not sure that still applies in english law.

I'm not talking about law - I'm talking about a close personal relationship between 2 people.

They have been operating an agreement of monogamy, he wants to change that, he should talk to her.

She should have talked to him about the discontinuation of intimacy. The fact that she didn't has absolutely no bearing on the moral thing to do in his situation.
 

EllieP

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My husband and I were both married to cheating partners, so we're acutely aware of what it can do to a relationship, that is, kill it.

A monogamous relationship is not about ownership or self-esteem. That's ludicrous thinking. It's being committed to someone to provide for them in all matters: emotional, sustenance and security.


Cheating is a decision. It's deciding to no longer honor that commitment. The 3rd party is inconsequential to me.
 

1Cody

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Here is one that goes back to the, "I can't begin to compete with that", statement mentioned earlier. It is what I always say, when the bi guy wants a woman, no man can compete. When the bi guy wants a man, no woman can compete. I been on the recieving end of that. For the period of time he wanted only a man, that was nice and it felt good to be his exclusive. But when it came time for him to get a woman, I knew I couldn't compete and didn't try. I knew until he satisfied his desire, there was nothing I could do. I didn't sit by and wait for this to play out. I made him leave. I am guessing the question addressed marriage only, but that don't mean that if the same thing happens in a relationship there won't be some kind of hurt or pain involved. Yes, I am dumb enough that when he gets ready for me again, I will take him back. Actually, I can't wait!!
 

ManlyBanisters

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A monogamous relationship is not about ownership or self-esteem. That's ludicrous thinking. It's being committed to someone to provide for them in all matters: emotional, sustenance and security.

In fairness, Ellie, a non-monogamous relationship can provide those things too. It's not how I like to do things but that doesn't mean my way is only way.
 

monel

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So because she has withdrawn from intimacy without honouring her duty to at least discuss it with him then he's carte blanche to go against the previously agreed monogamy? I don't believe that's healthy or fair.

In contract law there is a concept of "first to breach". If one party is found to have breached the contract first, he cannot recover - generally - when the second party fails to perform his obligations. Why is the withholding of intimacy, sex, failure to love and cherish any less of cheat than having sex outside of marriage? And why if the former preceded the latter would the person who had extramarital sex be deemed to be the greater offender?
 

ManlyBanisters

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I believe I have answered both your points already. You may not like my answers/opinions or agree with them, but that does not change them.

In contract law there is a concept of "first to breach". If one party is found to have breached the contract first, he cannot recover - generally - when the second party fails to perform his obligations.

I'm not talking about law - I'm talking about a close personal relationship between 2 people.

Why is the withholding of intimacy, sex, failure to love and cherish any less of cheat than having sex outside of marriage? And why if the former preceded the latter would the person who had extramarital sex be deemed to be the greater offender?

They have been operating an agreement of monogamy, he wants to change that, he should talk to her.

She should have talked to him about the discontinuation of intimacy. The fact that she didn't has absolutely no bearing on the moral thing to do in his situation.

I made no judgment whatsoever on which, if either, offense was greater.
 

MarkLondon

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My husband and I were both married to cheating partners, so we're acutely aware of what it can do to a relationship, that is, kill it.

I strongly suspect that the heart of this marriage is dying or already dead anyway and that the cheating is symptomatic of that, and may even be in some way, an attempt to keep it going. But of course, I've only been told one side of the story.

A monogamous relationship is not about ownership or self-esteem. That's ludicrous thinking. It's being committed to someone to provide for them in all matters: emotional, sustenance and security.

Neither spouse here seems to be committed to the other's needs in totality anymore. Which is very sad, after 25 years of doing so and successfully raising four children to adulthood (two of them from a previous relationship of the wife's).

But at least, as the 3rd party, I'm not directly challenging the sustenance and security issues between them.

Cheating is a decision. It's deciding to no longer honor that commitment. The 3rd party is inconsequential to me.

Yes, the decision has already, in effect, been made. Before I even came onto the scene. Now, as well as considering the welfare of the marital couple, I need to assess my own, inconsequential, position. And whether I'm prepared to settle for that.
 

IntoxicatingToxin

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If my husband were cheating, I don't think it would matter much to me who or what he was having sex with - the betrayal is there regardless. I can't say for certain how I would act in either situation because it hasn't happened to me yet and it's somewhat beyond my realm of conception, really. I guess if he cheated with a man there would be a level of confusion to add to the hurt but I don't think that it would make it hurt more.
 

D_Kitten_Kaboodle

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If you suspected your husband was cheating would you be any less distressed to find out he was seeing a man and not another woman?

That's the general question. In the case I'm thinking of the married couple are middle-aged and sexual relations beteen them ceased over a year ago. He's been entirely faithfull up untill now.

Can I ask why the sexual relations ceased?

Medical issues?
Psychological or Emotional issues (such as depression or anxiety)?
Lifestyle changes (job pressures/family pressures) ?

I think it is important to identify WHY the sex stopped instead of just taking for granted that it did...end of story.

He has been faitful for a year without sex and is now seeking sex with a guy (a) to give him sexual relief without emotional strings??
or (b) because he realizes that he is bi (after all these years of marriage and is now accepting his sexuality) ??

It is also important to identify why he is seeking sex in a male companion when (IF) this is not his normal behavior.... and assuming he has been faitful, I am assuming this is not his typical behavior.


I could tell you how I would feel about finding myself in such a situation, but that will not help you (or whoever is in this situation) The dynamics of relationships are so different. Some people talk their problems out and share everything. Some withhold the tiniest bit of information from their partners. Some partners instinctively know when something is amiss.... others are totally clueless even when the problem is staring the in the face.

I hope this gives you more food for thought than how I would feel if my husuband were cheating or thinking about it....


edit: fwiw -- Had I been 10-15 yrs younger I believe that either male/female would be the same... I'm not so sure I would feel that way now. I would have to ask if he was satisfying some curiosity..... or if this was his way to get sex without ANY possibility of an emotional attachment. I am a bit odd in that I believe a person can definitely separate sex and love. It's the dishonesty that would probably kill me more than anything else.

Remember.... you have only heard one side of the story... There are always two sides and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle....
 
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B_chinagirl4u2

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In fairness, Ellie, a non-monogamous relationship can provide those things too. It's not how I like to do things but that doesn't mean my way is only way.

Agreed,

But thats why there is "cheating" in monogamous relationships, because one partner believes there is "only their way" and therefore alienates the others needs and desires.......therefore they start to "cheat"
 

D_Kitten_Kaboodle

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Agreed,

But thats why there is "cheating" in monogamous relationships, because one partner believes there is "only their way" and therefore alienates the others needs and desires.......therefore they start to "cheat"


I see what you are trying to say china, but to me... "cheating" means being dishonest... It can also happen in open relationships as well.

Anytime your loyalty is misplaced, or you fail to be completely open and honest to your partner about your feelings and desires, you become a cheater.

It's all symantics sure.... but I really think you and MB are talking about the same thing.... differently...
 

dolfette

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mark, you only have his word for it that the sex has stopped.

without wishing to sound cruel here...

''my wife doesn't understand me.''

and...

''we don't even sleep together anymore.''

are the oldest cheater clichés in the book.