If your husband was cheating...

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

You are safe. She may own tweezers but no magnifying glass.

 

[B_chinagirl4u2]

You already responded to that post I made on the first page. You said:



It seemed to me like we were in agreement and I'm not sure why you've chosen to take issue with my comments again.

It did look like you were saying monogamous relationships were inferior, you responded with a clarification that you weren't. As far as I am concerned we're cool, yes?

Because Altered ego used your post as the opening attack to support her argument in her post. You should be directing this question to her really.

 

[MarkLondon]

Can I ask why the sexual relations ceased?

Medical issues?
Psychological or Emotional issues (such as depression or anxiety)?
Lifestyle changes (job pressures/family pressures) ?

I think it is important to identify WHY the sex stopped instead of just taking for granted that it did...end of story.

Mild erectile disfunction (enough to make penetration awkward). And a difficult menopause (with no HRT). But there are treatments for both those conditions.

Last of the kids left home.

They had to sell up their business as financial crisis began a few years ago and have succeeded in establishing a new one.

In short, a full on mid-life crisis!

He has been faitful for a year without sex and is now seeking sex with a guy (a) to give him sexual relief without emotional strings??
or (b) because he realizes that he is bi (after all these years of marriage and is now accepting his sexuality) ??

It is also important to identify why he is seeking sex in a male companion when (IF) this is not his normal behavior.... and assuming he has been faitful, I am assuming this is not his typical behavior.

He advertised hoping for "a regular friend for no strings meetings".

He had some man-to-man encounters as a young man before he met his wife, and described himself as bisexual.

I think he's reviving a side of his sexuality that's lain dormant for a long time. It is noticeable to me that he's chosen to do that rather than try to find another woman, who might be more likely to want to replace his wife.

edit: fwiw -- Had I been 10-15 yrs younger I believe that either male/female would be the same... I'm not so sure I would feel that way now. I would have to ask if he was satisfying some curiosity..... or if this was his way to get sex without ANY possibility of an emotional attachment. I am a bit odd in that I believe a person can definitely separate sex and love. It's the dishonesty that would probably kill me more than anything else.

I know that it's easier for men to separate sex from emotional attatchment, but what has happened between us has not been entirely impersonal - there are definately grounds for affectionate friendship.

Remember.... you have only heard one side of the story... There are always two sides and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle....

Yes, I'm well aware of that.

Thank you again for your thought-provoking questions.

 

[MarkLondon]

mark, you only have his word for it that the sex has stopped.

without wishing to sound cruel here...

''my wife doesn't understand me.''

and...

''we don't even sleep together anymore.''

are the oldest cheater clichés in the book.

I think he's been starved of affection for quite a while. He seemed almost overwhelmed when we first embraced.

 

[MarkLondon]

Hey! Leave my balls out of this!

Yes, let's. It's complicated enough already, lol!

 

[MarkLondon]

along with,

''i've never done anything like this before but you're special to me''

How did you know! Are you psychic?

 

[petite]

I'm sorry Mark. From your OP, I didn't assume that you were personally involved.

 

[MarkLondon]

Hey, why did you get married in the first place -- well, unless you got her pregnant, and you thought that was the honorable thing to do?
<snip>

What's the point in answering a thread to which you have paid no attention whatsoever. The OP is not the married man in question
<snip>

It was probably my fault, my OP was rather abstract.

I'm sorry Mark. From your OP, I didn't assume that you were personally involved.

Well I didn't take offence at anything you said in your contribution at all.

But yeah, the reason I was asking was because I had a personal interest and wanted to get a handle on the women's perspective in such a situation - it's not just an academic enquiry. I didn't set out to snag myself a married man, but I suddenly find myself in a complicated situation and need some help understanding all the ramifications.

 

[Drifterwood]

I think that some people fall into the trap of confusing an asexual relationship with monogamy. Furthermore there are three types of monogamy, full sexual, genetic and social.

In your circumstance Mark, I would guess that the couple had passed through any issue of genetic monogamy (i.e. people commit to have kids and to bring them up together). What happens next is all too familiar. One party decides that they are happy with social monogamy, i.e. they are a two person household unit and they do varying levels of things together in society, but no longer have sex. When this is the choice of one person without consulting the other and taking into account their ongoing sexual needs, then I consider it as bad if not worse and the cause of cheating. In fact I do not consider it cheating as effectively the other party has made the relationship non sexually monogamous. Often they just don't realise this.

Clearly it is better if people discuss this. However if one party makes a unilateral decision to have a non sexual socially monogamous relationship, I do not see that they have any grounds for complaint if the partner takes a similarly unilateral decision to find a sexual relationship as well as the socially monogamous one.

The problem is, that the partner who still needs a sexual relationship may leave the old partner and take away their social monogamy, especially if they haven't discussed it. So I would advise that if you want to change sexual aspects of your relationship, you communicate it clearly with your partner. And I mean the woman in this case, Mark. My personal experience is more of cheating wives and I would guess it is about 50/50 as to who has discussed the issue with their husbands.

 

[185248]

Hide the scissors.

 

[MarkLondon]

I think that some people fall into the trap of confusing an asexual relationship with monogamy. Furthermore there are three types of monogamy, full sexual, genetic and social.

In your circumstance Mark, I would guess that the couple had passed through any issue of genetic monogamy (i.e. people commit to have kids and to bring them up together). What happens next is all too familiar. One party decides that they are happy with social monogamy, i.e. they are a two person household unit and they do varying levels of things together in society, but no longer have sex. When this is the choice of one person without consulting the other and taking into account their ongoing sexual needs, then I consider it as bad if not worse and the cause of cheating. In fact I do not consider it cheating as effectively the other party has made the relationship non sexually monogamous. Often they just don't realise this.

Clearly it is better if people discuss this. However if one party makes a unilateral decision to have a non sexual socially monogamous relationship, I do not see that they have any grounds for complaint if the partner takes a similarly unilateral decision to find a sexual relationship as well as the socially monogamous one.

The problem is, that the partner who still needs a sexual relationship may leave the old partner and take away their social monogamy, especially if they haven't discussed it. So I would advise that if you want to change sexual aspects of your relationship, you communicate it clearly with your partner. And I mean the woman in this case, Mark. My personal experience is more of cheating wives and I would guess it is about 50/50 as to who has discussed the issue with their husbands.

Hmmm, that's an interesting take on the various aspects of monogamy and one I find a great deal of agreement with. Although I suspect that generally more men than women would see things that way.

 

[Drifterwood]

Hmmm, that's an interesting take on the various aspects of monogamy and one I find a great deal of agreement with. Although I suspect that generally more men than women would see things that way.

Well, I would say that the stats and research support the reality of human relations rather than the wish fulfillment and otherwise of the Romantic Love Ideal and Church interference in people's sexual relations.

I was thinking about this today and I could give you a catalogue of different ways that this issue has been faced and resolved amongst my friends and family.

Woman tells man she no longer wants any sex, offers him sexual freedom, he declines.

Ditto above but he takes it.

Man and woman discuss her loss of desire for sex, they divorce and stay friends.

Man has no sexual desire, she is trying to live with it.

Man has little sexual desire, she loses it for him, has affairs, it comes out they divorce.

Woman loses desire for husband, has string of flings then finds someone she wishes to stay with, they divorce, she remarries.

He loses interest, she complains, he agress to her having affairs, she does, they stay together.

They both lose sexual interest in each ohter, have affairs, never mention it, stay together.

He or she loses desire, he or she has affairs, never mentions it, he/she may suspect decides not to do anything.

Everything happens.

The latest research from some august sounding US body called something like the US Institute of human sexual relations, recently published that 80% of marriages have infidelity (of course some of this consensual). It overlaps the 60% of men and 50% of women who have sex outside the married relationship. The figures have more than doubled in the last ten years.

I would suggest that this represents the reality of both open relationships and the shifting nature and types of monogamy.

NB - no one on the Internet is a cheat of course

 

[B_Hickboy]

Sometimes you cancel yourself out.

Well, I would say that the stats and research support the reality of human relations rather than the wish fulfillment and otherwise of the Romantic Love Ideal and Church interference in people's sexual relations.

I was thinking about this today and I could give you a catalogue of different ways that this issue has been faced and resolved amongst my friends and family.

Woman tells man she no longer wants any sex, offers him sexual freedom, he declines.

Ditto above but he takes it.

Man and woman discuss her loss of desire for sex, they divorce and stay friends.

Man has no sexual desire, she is trying to live with it.

Man has little sexual desire, she loses it for him, has affairs, it comes out they divorce.

Woman loses desire for husband, has string of flings then finds someone she wishes to stay with, they divorce, she remarries.

He loses interest, she complains, he agress to her having affairs, she does, they stay together.

They both lose sexual interest in each ohter, have affairs, never mention it, stay together.

He or she loses desire, he or she has affairs, never mentions it, he/she may suspect decides not to do anything.

Everything happens.

The latest research from some august sounding US body called something like the US Institute of human sexual relations, recently published that 80% of marriages have infidelity (of course some of this consensual). It overlaps the 60% of men and 50% of women who have sex outside the married relationship. The figures have more than doubled in the last ten years.

I would suggest that this represents the reality of both open relationships and the shifting nature and types of monogamy.

NB - no one on the Internet is a cheat of course

 

[Drifterwood]

sometimes you cancel yourself out.

fuck off.

 

[helgaleena]

Let's face it, monogamy is less common than it is portrayed by our dominant cultures. However, cheating is still cheating, no matter who it's with. I myself cannot condone any sort of deception in a relationship and only engage in relations with both members of a couple at the same time. If one half of a couple wishes to engage with me, I insist on getting it okayed by the partner beforehand. That, or they need to break up.

I do not think that makes me a fuddy-duddy.

 

[Drifterwood]

I do not think that makes me a fuddy-duddy.

I don't think so either, Helga. I think you are just saying what everyone else who has open relationships is saying. When you are pen, you don't have these issues.

The issues happen when people presume they are in monogamy and fail to work with the changes that happen and be honest about it. If you change lane without indicating, you shouldn't be surprised if there is a crash.

 

[B_Hickboy]

fuck off.

See what I mean?

 

[MarkLondon]

Let's face it, monogamy is less common than it is portrayed by our dominant cultures. However, cheating is still cheating, no matter who it's with. I myself cannot condone any sort of deception in a relationship and only engage in relations with both members of a couple at the same time. If one half of a couple wishes to engage with me, I insist on getting it okayed by the partner beforehand.

I wholeheartedly agree. For myself, I'm not into threesomes so that leaves me with the spouse's consent option.

That, or they need to break up.

Indeed. Except that's not so easy in the present financial climate.

I do not think that makes me a fuddy-duddy.

No, I think it makes you a sensible swinger, lol! :wink:

 

[D_Kitten_Kaboodle]

Mild erectile disfunction (enough to make penetration awkward). And a difficult menopause (with no HRT). But there are treatments for both those conditions.

Last of the kids left home.

They had to sell up their business as financial crisis began a few years ago and have succeeded in establishing a new one.

In short, a full on mid-life crisis!

Sounds like very typical experiences with both having to "suffer through" their part of the dillema..... not judging but sounds to me like they don't talk very much and probably haven't for years. So sad that many marriages end simply because the couples fail to communicate with each other.... (I guess there are those who expect that the other person should be able to read their minds, since they have lived with them for so long... )

Maybe one of those empty nest scenarios where, when the last one leaves the nest, they turn and look at each other and say "Who the hell ar you?"

If he/she still love one another they could save the marriage.... if they wanted to.... but then you say he is bringing back a side of him that has been laying dormant for a very long time.

If she is aware of this side of him (?) man, do they need to have a sit down and let's talk about this.... (IMO)

 

[MarkLondon]

Sounds like very typical experiences with both having to "suffer through" their part of the dillema..... not judging but sounds to me like they don't talk very much and probably haven't for years. So sad that many marriages end simply because the couples fail to communicate with each other.... (I guess there are those who expect that the other person should be able to read their minds, since they have lived with them for so long... )

Maybe one of those empty nest scenarios where, when the last one leaves the nest, they turn and look at each other and say "Who the hell ar you?"

I know, it does seem like that. I could weep.

If he/she still love one another they could save the marriage.... if they wanted to....

I fear that at the moment they are bound together merely by property values, business interests, and social expectations.

but then you say he is bringing back a side of him that has been laying dormant for a very long time.

If she is aware of this side of him (?) man, do they need to have a sit down and let's talk about this.... (IMO)

No, she is not aware of his other side. She knows something's up, but she suspects it's another woman. Hence my question in my OP. I've asked him if he could talk about that with her, and he says not.

He's managed to avoid actually being found out. But his wife has noticed his mood lift - she told one of their daughters that he'd been a lot easier to live with recently, and they were getting on better. Although it speaks volumes that she didn't say it directly to him. :frown1: