I'm not denying that. If anyting, I'm reinforcing that view. What I hoped to explain is why.
Ignorance of European Threads...
- Thread starter D_Jared Padalicki
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I'm not denying that. If anyting, I'm reinforcing that view. What I hoped to explain is why.
The main issue for me was the fact that things on here like 'susan boyle' (how great she is in singing) are far more important then human pain. If you make a thread about things that happen in the world and hurts people, you want to get feedback no matter what. But threads like 'my brother is bigger' gets more attention and that is a wrong point of view then.
What I wanted is that people on here show respect for other threads if they are serious and participate in it, because that is what threads are made for.
i'm not asking for more or giving me attention, just bringing up something i notice. And luckily some gusy notice, also the guys from the USA. I won't say it is a general issue over there.
Thanks
What I wanted is that people on here show respect for other threads if they are serious and participate in it, because that is what threads are made for.
i'm not asking for more or giving me attention, just bringing up something i notice. And luckily some gusy notice, also the guys from the USA. I won't say it is a general issue over there.
Thanks
American older male here...when i heard the news in NETHERLANDS..i was complelled to offer my condolences to PIETER...time slipped by...i now apologize for that delay...
I am a well traveled well educated fella who has spent several weeks in EU every year for last 10 yrs...love the adventure....must say have enjoyed most everyone i have met...also i have enjoyed every post in this thread...we are all in the same world just trying to get by.....Pieter we may not show it but we feel your pain.
I am a well traveled well educated fella who has spent several weeks in EU every year for last 10 yrs...love the adventure....must say have enjoyed most everyone i have met...also i have enjoyed every post in this thread...we are all in the same world just trying to get by.....Pieter we may not show it but we feel your pain.
Really interesting thread. I think there are a couple of issues here that have been bubbling away for a while (in general I mean - not just on this site).
I think in the past Americans have tended to be isolated - mainly because they've been so self-sufficient and haven't needed to rely on anyone but themselves. Also, it's so vast that there's a huge amount of American news to cover, so the general public doesn't get the chance to see stuff from around the world apart from huge events. Having said that - I think things are changing, a lot of Americans I know like to watch the Beeb (BBC) for news, and the USA does seem to be waking up and becoming more outward looking.
The other issue is American perception that Europe is self-righteous/superior. From a British perspective that often seems to be the case. Europe has tended to stand back and let the US/UK act alone - but then be really critical of any mistakes afterward (I'm not trying to excuse Iraq, btw - which I think was a hige mistake). I do also think there is a knee-jerk anti- Americanism about in the European media (and the British media unfortuantely). I think it would be better to judge each situation on its own merits - rather than assume the US is always wrong.
Finally - despite having been isolated - the US has always taken interest in big world events if assistance was needed - like the 2004 tsunami for instance.
I think as the EU grows as a world power (which seems likely) and takes up more responsibilites - and as the US learns to look outwards more often - maybe things will balance out and there'll be more understanding between the two.
I think in the past Americans have tended to be isolated - mainly because they've been so self-sufficient and haven't needed to rely on anyone but themselves. Also, it's so vast that there's a huge amount of American news to cover, so the general public doesn't get the chance to see stuff from around the world apart from huge events. Having said that - I think things are changing, a lot of Americans I know like to watch the Beeb (BBC) for news, and the USA does seem to be waking up and becoming more outward looking.
The other issue is American perception that Europe is self-righteous/superior. From a British perspective that often seems to be the case. Europe has tended to stand back and let the US/UK act alone - but then be really critical of any mistakes afterward (I'm not trying to excuse Iraq, btw - which I think was a hige mistake). I do also think there is a knee-jerk anti- Americanism about in the European media (and the British media unfortuantely). I think it would be better to judge each situation on its own merits - rather than assume the US is always wrong.
Finally - despite having been isolated - the US has always taken interest in big world events if assistance was needed - like the 2004 tsunami for instance.
I think as the EU grows as a world power (which seems likely) and takes up more responsibilites - and as the US learns to look outwards more often - maybe things will balance out and there'll be more understanding between the two.
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...and there have been quite a few people who have bulldozed through crowds in the states, but it isn't politicly motivated. Senility, drunkenenss and road rage seem to be a factor in the states.
What has become of this man?
Principessa
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Amen!
Well stated, and totally true.
There are 200 million people in the US and 50 states plus two wars, a new president, a major economic downturn, a changed composition of Congress, a retiring Supreme Court justice, and internal security issues to worry about. There's a lot of news to digest just because of these things alone. On top of all that, Americans don't know much about Europe and don't particularly care. Many still see Europe as a nice place to visit, but ultimately unable to chart a course in the world that doesn't involve relying on the United States to come to the rescue.
[/QUOTE]That means most Americans don't respect Europe very much and so don't care much about what happens there so long as it doesn't involve the US.[/QUOTE] OUCH! I was with you up until that last sentence. :frown1:
:rofl: Sorry dude, but that kind of thing happens in the US on some scale damn near every day.
:irked: I'm sorry this happend and I'm sorry you are hurting; but you need to dial it back a notch and mind your manners youngun'. :irked: :angryfire2: The Royal Family was not physically hurt which is the thing I saw as an important positive point.
:261: 'Scuse you?!? :321:
Yup, that's true. :yup:
We didn't ask you to appreciate him.
Hell, almost half our country didn't even vote for him. We certainly do not need some, still wet behind the ears, child, from across the ocean, to appreciate him. :irked:True.
Dude, this is the large penis support group, NOT the I feel miserable about something that happend and need y'all to wallow in misery with me site.
:duh:Oh please! I've started countless, serious threads about which I really wanted an answer and didn't get so much as one response; no matter how many times I bumped them. Get over it and move on.
.Actually, that is exactly what you are doing. :tongue:
Also note that 675,000 Americans of Italian descent in just the NY metropolitan area offered to donate everything from clothing to rescue dog teams via Catholic charities and they were rejected by the Italian government as well.[/QUOTE] Yup, a friend of mine emailed that to me a week ago. I was truly upset and despondent about the eartquake and lives lost. I spent a semester there in grad school, 12 years ago and consider myself a bit of an Italophile.
dong20
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I think that's a fair assessment of most folk worldwide, on a day to day basis at least. I take an interest in world affairs but most don't directly affect me. I read about the incident Pieter relates, and mentally shrugged my shoulders, not through indifference but because it wasn't a significant incident from other than a national perspective. People crash cars into crowds in many nations, intentionally or not and to bemoan a lack of global coverage is naive.
The US lost 100 million people, wow that is news!! Makes the other things you mention pale into insignificance ...:tongue: I doubt your average <insert nationality here> will be aware of Souter's departure and most nations have internal security issues of their own these days.
As I imagine many resent the similar attitude that eminates from the US about ... well almost anywhere else. It's a two way street, even if the root causes vary, the end results are similar; typically manifested as misdirected anger.
I does, I think it's entirely reasonable that national considerations take precedence in terms of attention. Interesting you make reference to the 'next state over' ... more on that later.
It's that kind of crass comment that many find irritating, it's a parallel to the 'fat, dumb American'. It can be applied to [almost] any nation. Is there a correlation between national acreage and global awareness?
I can only echo Bbucko here, WWII has no real place in this discussion, but let me say that 9/11 was at least as significant to the US as many events of WWII were in Europe.
Like Pearl Harbour, it was a hammer blow to the national pysche, events of a significance almost impossible for a non American to grasp, certainly the post war generation. It is so for reasons far beyond the deathtoll, in many respects the numbers are almost incidental.
I notice how often you refer to Europe in the context of a country. You know perfectly well it's not, it's over forty sovereign nations, a majority of which have some overlapping interests. This is somewhat analogous to the US where some 50 states, with little in common, can be, and often are equally fractious. In the same way American states 'fight' the federal government, the nations of Europe 'fight' the creep toward a federal Europe.
I understand what you mean, but such statements as the above do you no favours.
I really don't know what that means, when the context of the thread is that Americans don't care - does that mean those in [in this case] Europe care less. It's clear Americans do care, but it's important to draw the distinction between caring and interest.
True, although that view isn't unique to Britain, or in applying to Americans. Stereotypes are fine, until we confuse them with reality or otherwise fail to recognise them for what they are.
That's a vital distinction. Over sensitivity to criticism is understandable but too often such criticism is taken personally. Only a fool paints an entire nation based on their perceptions of a handful and that foolishness knows no nationality.
... Cont'd
dong20
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I agree, the US is a great country. Personally it's no one in which I would want to live.
Of course it's comparable to any other nation but comparison doesn't mean equality.
For me the US is not better (or worse), it's simply different, and my personal preference is a personal allocation of values and my values simply don't align with my experience of the US.
I spend much of my time in Southern Africa, a more different way of life to both Europe and America is hard to explain.
And yet such considerations are considered secondary to US foreign policy priorties, because Europe is expected to think and act as nation. That's an example knee jerk reaction to Jason's earlier comment.:tongue:
The rest of the country might well shock you. Have you seen the Top Gear episode where the boys travel from Florida to New Orleans? There's a whole different America out there and one that Europeans (and British :tongue
I think the tongue in cheek attitude portrayed by Mssrs Clarkson, May and Hammond only barely hid the sheer terror behind that realisation. My experience of the US isn't extensive by any measure, but I agree there's a massive disjunct evident away from the 'tourist trail' where one really has to bite one's lip. Of course, such provincialism isn't unique to the US.
I've been wondering about this for a long while, and have made allusions once or twice here. Is it something that is beginning to crodn the nation's collective consciousness, or is it still a nagging doubt in the back of the mind of a minority?
Respect is earned, not demanded.
Who exactly is the 'you' to whom you refer? This is another example of knee jerk sensitivity I referred to. I'm really not sure what the link was intended to prove?
Yes, it shows the US donated more than any other nation by virtue of having a larger economy. But If it was intended to demostrate US financial generosity it fails miserably. Above all it shows that the US is as as gulity as most wealthy nations in failing to rise to the challenges they have set themselves - hardly news.
It also underscores the latent hypocrisy in the provision of aid, all in all, rather an own goal. The sheer $$ value donated proves nothing as to intent, and it's certainly poor justification for the rest of the borderline jingoism in your post. Besides, it's almost entirely irrelevent to the OP.
Come on Speedo, such generalities cut many ways and it's borderline hypocritical to make them without qualification.
That is so incredibly naive, as Vince explained.
If I hear about that woman once more, I swear I'm going to barf.:tongue:
Dude, this is the large penis support group, NOT the I feel miserable about something that happend and need y'all to wallow in misery with me site.
Until you seek to turn it into a personal soapbox for some issue that you care about, right.
Youngun' ... wet behind the ears, child? ... since when is age a disqualification for expressing sentiment. If so, then if the assinine emotional outbursts eminating from you on a regular basis are any indication, it's an inverse relationship.
It's also incredibly condescending, I'm only surprised you haven't managed to shoehorn in some rascist barbs too, so it could qualify as classic NJ.
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As far as Turkey's inclusion in the EU goes - Britain is in favour partly because it'll serve to widen integration rather than deepen it. Britain is usually in favour of less political integration rather than more, so anything that counteracts it, and also dilutes the importance of the French-German hegemony within the EU is seen as a plus.
I agree that they also see it as a potential bridge between east and west, and a moderating influence maybe, on other Islamic countries. Also, the EU have been dangling EU membership in front of Turkey for years, so they really ought to stick by their promises.
It will have a significant impact on the EU though - a poorer nation than most in the EU with different views on many issues and a large population. I think the Commission is worried about how the EU will cope financially if Turkey joins - and also the fact that the EU would then directly border countries such as Iraq, etc.
Oh - and some within the EU would like a to be a strictly Christian club - in line with Europe's religious and political histor, evoking the Holy Roman Empire or something.
I agree that they also see it as a potential bridge between east and west, and a moderating influence maybe, on other Islamic countries. Also, the EU have been dangling EU membership in front of Turkey for years, so they really ought to stick by their promises.
It will have a significant impact on the EU though - a poorer nation than most in the EU with different views on many issues and a large population. I think the Commission is worried about how the EU will cope financially if Turkey joins - and also the fact that the EU would then directly border countries such as Iraq, etc.
Oh - and some within the EU would like a to be a strictly Christian club - in line with Europe's religious and political histor, evoking the Holy Roman Empire or something.
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mainly because our news doesnt cover it and not many people watch the news anymore except for local news.
i dont see the need for another thread though slamming people from one country or another though. were all different, fucking deal with it.
i dont see the need for another thread though slamming people from one country or another though. were all different, fucking deal with it.
arktrucker
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Everybody is talking about news coverage and who knew/or didn't know what when.
A little off mark here but, what was the reaction in Europe when the United States cargo ship was taken by Somali pirates. What kind of uproar was heard when our navy sailed in and took it back. By the way piracy is a crime in our constitution.
As I see it bush (I refuse to capitalize his name) fucked the United States and our people with the world. He was and is and idiot. The people of the United States are in a state of shell-shock from him and what has happened in the middle east and what is happening here at home. We're sorry if we it appears we're not paying attention to the rest of the world but, we've got a lot on our plate now. It was tragic to see on the news the car attempting to run into the bus carrying Queen Beatrix and her family however in watching that tape.. several times, I noticed she didn't react to the horror. What we saw on our news was the prince and his wife covering their mouths while the Queen sat in the front seat.
Europeans as well as the rest of the world should understand our nation comprises 50 states. Most of those states are larger than some European countries. We do get a little preoccupied with ourselves but it's isn't disrespect.
A little off mark here but, what was the reaction in Europe when the United States cargo ship was taken by Somali pirates. What kind of uproar was heard when our navy sailed in and took it back. By the way piracy is a crime in our constitution.
As I see it bush (I refuse to capitalize his name) fucked the United States and our people with the world. He was and is and idiot. The people of the United States are in a state of shell-shock from him and what has happened in the middle east and what is happening here at home. We're sorry if we it appears we're not paying attention to the rest of the world but, we've got a lot on our plate now. It was tragic to see on the news the car attempting to run into the bus carrying Queen Beatrix and her family however in watching that tape.. several times, I noticed she didn't react to the horror. What we saw on our news was the prince and his wife covering their mouths while the Queen sat in the front seat.
Europeans as well as the rest of the world should understand our nation comprises 50 states. Most of those states are larger than some European countries. We do get a little preoccupied with ourselves but it's isn't disrespect.
mitchymo
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Personally i think the following:- Members shape the news that is posted about so there are more american newsworthy threads
While most of us europeans are posting away, the americans are sleeping or at work, i'm sure the online count is highest during eveningtime/nighttime in the US so euro-threads are statistically less likely to reap responses
Also in general (actual broadcasting) countries surely take an interest in news which is deemed exceptionally newsworthy of other nations focusing mostly on their own news and that of their neighbouring nations or wider continent nations.
I dont think there is any self-absorbsion when reporting news basically is what i am getting at.
While most of us europeans are posting away, the americans are sleeping or at work, i'm sure the online count is highest during eveningtime/nighttime in the US so euro-threads are statistically less likely to reap responses
Also in general (actual broadcasting) countries surely take an interest in news which is deemed exceptionally newsworthy of other nations focusing mostly on their own news and that of their neighbouring nations or wider continent nations.
I dont think there is any self-absorbsion when reporting news basically is what i am getting at.
dong20
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Well that isn't quite what happened. Anyway, there were a number of threads about those events, and many posted in them - perhaps you missed them? There was also press and media coverage.
I wonder, exactly what do you mean by an 'uproar' ... did you expect a series of parades in the capitals of European nations? :tongue:
By the way, piracy is a crime in most countries ...
I think that's pretty well understood. But, if reminders need to be issued here's another; Europeans [or Asians or Africans etc for that matter] don't think or speak as one, any more than Americans do, and what does the size of US states have to do with any given citizen's global awareness?
I mention it because that's the second time it's been cited as a reason [excuse?] for what some [evidently] perceive as a lack of interest/awareness in world affairs.
It seems to me that using acreage as mitigation for it's absence is a bit flimsy, isn't it - after all we all here have Internet access. Australians manage to keep abreast of world affairs, and they have a continent to themselves.
That's not meant as a criticism, merely a question/observation.
Wow! This thread has really taken off.
Earlier I responded to a post by Jason, who later wondered what he had said that caused me to take offence. I have not followed this thread for a few hours so this is my first opportunity to follow-up.
Jason, the following is just one of your statements that I found insulting:
"Many still see Europe as a nice place to visit, but ultimately unable to chart a course in the world that doesn't involve relying on the United States to come to the rescue."
That's what allies do. Much like other countries have come to US rescue. Do you remember, Canada's ambassador to Iran, Ken Taylor's rescue of Americans during the hostage taking?
Arktrucker, I can assure you the dreadful attack by Somali pirates was cover extensively but American media would have no reason to cover it.
"A little off mark here but, what was the reaction in Europe when the United States cargo ship was taken by Somali pirates. What kind of uproar was heard when our navy sailed in and took it back."
I think there was a great shout of glee when your navy rescued the crew. I thought it was brilliant. By-the-way did your media cover Canada's rescue of a ship a couple of days later? I'm not accusing, just wondering for my own interest.
And to set the record straight, I'm a huge admirer of the US. In just over two hundred years its gone from a struggling new country to the most powerful country in the world. On the whole the American business and people probably have a much more "Can do" attitude than businesses and citizens in many other countries, Canada included. I have met many wonderful, giving Americans I like to think are friends.
Unfortunately with so much overwhelming power comes great responsibility. Because of America's world dominance what happens in the US effects every other country in the world. We have a saying in Canada that I have quoted here before. "When the US sneezes, Canada catches a cold". At times there is a feeling that what's good for the US is good for the world which I'm sure most can agree is not necessarily correct.
Americans have every right to be extremely proud. I'm extremely proud to be Canadian and believe Canada is the best country in the world. But I also think one should be humble and show respect for all other countries.
Earlier I responded to a post by Jason, who later wondered what he had said that caused me to take offence. I have not followed this thread for a few hours so this is my first opportunity to follow-up.
Jason, the following is just one of your statements that I found insulting:
"Many still see Europe as a nice place to visit, but ultimately unable to chart a course in the world that doesn't involve relying on the United States to come to the rescue."
That's what allies do. Much like other countries have come to US rescue. Do you remember, Canada's ambassador to Iran, Ken Taylor's rescue of Americans during the hostage taking?
Arktrucker, I can assure you the dreadful attack by Somali pirates was cover extensively but American media would have no reason to cover it.
"A little off mark here but, what was the reaction in Europe when the United States cargo ship was taken by Somali pirates. What kind of uproar was heard when our navy sailed in and took it back."
I think there was a great shout of glee when your navy rescued the crew. I thought it was brilliant. By-the-way did your media cover Canada's rescue of a ship a couple of days later? I'm not accusing, just wondering for my own interest.
And to set the record straight, I'm a huge admirer of the US. In just over two hundred years its gone from a struggling new country to the most powerful country in the world. On the whole the American business and people probably have a much more "Can do" attitude than businesses and citizens in many other countries, Canada included. I have met many wonderful, giving Americans I like to think are friends.
Unfortunately with so much overwhelming power comes great responsibility. Because of America's world dominance what happens in the US effects every other country in the world. We have a saying in Canada that I have quoted here before. "When the US sneezes, Canada catches a cold". At times there is a feeling that what's good for the US is good for the world which I'm sure most can agree is not necessarily correct.
Americans have every right to be extremely proud. I'm extremely proud to be Canadian and believe Canada is the best country in the world. But I also think one should be humble and show respect for all other countries.
I'm not "naive" in what I said about Japan. I am very aware of the negative aspects of Japanese culture, but I'm in a mood to visit a place where the majority of people will treat me respectfully "on the surface."
I find North America to be way too aggressive and intrusive these days, and it turns me off big times.
I speak French fluently (linguist), and have lived in Europe and Australia for a while.
dong20
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Then I apologise, but I took and responded to your post at face value.
I increasingly find many countries too 'aggressive', but at least they are what they are.
I also like Japan but I was under no illusions about my 'status' there, and for the most part I don't like the [common] 'hypocrisy' [perhaps too strong a word] behind the smiles. Not that such 'behaviour' is unique to Japan of course, although in my experience it's more pronunced there than most Asian countries I've been to.
I can adjust to it, but it never sits entirely ... comfortably, if you know what I mean. Perhaps I wasn't there long enough and regardless I'm itching to get back.
When I say, "many," I'm simply expressing the opinion of many Americans. They are not necessarily my opinions, but those that I read and hear from everyday people or more isolationist media like small town newspapers (like where I live). If these opinions insult you then please don't shoot the messenger. I've been trying very hard of late to get to understand people in the red states from as open and honest a perspective as I can muster. I do that because these people have an effect on my life and the course of my nation as a whole. Their views (frequently) do not reflect my views. The best I can do is attempt to understand their perspective and then judge how to influence their opinion and, when possible, explain my position relative to theirs.
I stand by what I stated. Watching a game show last night, one woman was asked to name three countries in South America. She couldn't come up with one and had to pass the question. That's demonstrative of how clueless many Americans are about the world around them. I abhor that kind of ignorance because it's goofuses like her that vote for people who effect my life. I talk to these people about Europe, Asia, the middle east (God help me!), and world affairs when I feel it's possible to do so and they almost universally state what I have said. They really do believe Europe is still rationing, in post-war stress, and I've been admonished not to, "drink the water over there or you'll spend your vacation over a hole!" The only knowledge of Europe these people have are from their WWII veteran family members who have told them stories from the war. I can't begin to tell you the inaccuracies I've heard which range from Europe is a country to the Queen [Elizabeth II] is queen of England and the United States to there should be some countries between Germany and Italy so they can't "get together" again to I'm an American. I got nothing to do with Europe. None of my family came from Europe [coming from a very white person]. The ignorance is staggering and frightening.
What I have discovered is that there is a huge chunk of this country that is deeply suspicious of the outside world, has a very long memory for things that happened ages ago, and a reluctance to address things outside their borders be those borders townships, counties, states, or the country. They don't see how China's monetary policy affects the US. They buy American products, have July 4 picnics, honeymooned in Niagra Falls, Las Vegas, or Florida, and when they do travel, it's usually just within the United States. I have found many of these people generous, kind, friendly beyond belief (so long as I don't mention I'm gay or use words they don't know), but remarkably limited by their own horizons. In school they didn't see a use for history or art or foreign languages because they had zero effect on the lives they saw themselves transitioning into after school. And they're right! Insurance clerks, barbers, wait staff, farmers (lots of farmers), and other pink and blue collar positions have no need to know these things. They don't value education for how it can teach you to think and don't understand that it isn't so much what you study as how you study it. They were never told that. They were told, "finish school, go to work, get married, and don't move too far away so we can visit our grandkids." They might watch the nightly news, but most are too busy in the evenings and so read local morning newspapers focusing on local events with maybe a few major world events in short 2-3 paragraph blurbs just before the comics and Ann Landers. They listen to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity because they're on every radio station all over rural America and are more entertaining than listening to Light FM or Oldies. Rush and Sean sound reasonable to these people because they have few other sources of information to rely upon. They don't understand straw man arguments or how they're being manipulated to think. They're just happy their kids aren't doing drugs, are interested in sports, and get decent grades. They go to church, help out their neighbors, and try to be good people. 99% of their lives focus on their jobs, their families, their community, and care most about what policies in Washington or their state capital will effect them. They may rarely see black people, are (in fact) more likely to see Mexican migrant workers, never have met Jews or Muslims, are suspicious of Catholicism, and take pride in their independence. Their pastimes are gardening, working on cars, fishing and hunting, having barbecues with friends, watching TV, collecting, and reading pulp novels. That's really it. That is their lives and that is what they teach their children will be their lives as well. Making an effort to understand anything else doesn't give them an immediate benefit nor do they link their fortunes with those who live far away. Note that they don't necessarily think of traveling to New York or San Francisco or LA on vacation, instead prefering national parks, Disney/Orlando, or just bumming around in an RV. Maybe, just maybe, if they're very young and don't have kids or are older empty nesters, they'll go to Cancun or Jamaica for a trip but understand that when they travel to these places, they land and are immediately collected at the airport and ushered into guarded compounds that comprise the resort they're staying at. They'll never meet a native outside of the resort or the airport. They'll not leave the resort for their entire stay.
On occasion, somebody will raise a rebel who will see the outside world and think their small town life rather dreary and yearn for the bright lights of the big city. It may sound ridiculous, but many kids are discouraged to leave. They're warned about the dangers of big cities, the lack of community, the tough people on the streets and in the offices, how they won't have the safety and security of a real home where they don't lock their doors at night (which they don't do in my town either). If these kids leave, it's to go to a state college and then come home. They're not expected to go off elsewhere.
Don't expect those state colleges or universities to necessarily be hotbeds of liberalism or cultural expansion either. Most are just factories to get kids through with whatever degree they want; it's just more high school where students will pack a stadium to see football but would be lucky to fill a small room should YoYo Ma come to perform. The administrators and teaching staff rarely seek to challenge so much as just give information pertinent to their disciplines. Four years later, these kids have a bachelor's degree but still couldn't tell you anything about the Peloponnesian War or why it was important and while they might know that Greece is in Europe, couldn't point to it on a map. Not that they need to know that to be a bank manager, a merchant, a cooperative extension inspector, or an accountant. The bright kids who do know these things are told what wonderful teachers they would make, go into teaching, and then find there is little or no money in the school budget for teaching what they know and the parents really don't care if their kids manage a C in history (or art or music or foreign language or geography or even English).
This is largely in contrast to my experiences in Europe. I regularly travel to a tiny village in nowhere Ireland to visit my college buddy and his Irish wife. I universally find that people who would be on the same social scale as the Americans I describe above as being far better educated. That's not surprising given the very high standard of Ireland's education system, but it was very illuminating to me to sit in a modest home with blue collar people discussing world events and realize they have a grasp of them even years after leaving school. The media there is much more focused on European and world events (OK, except The Sun which seems to only care about big tits). I figure that's because their audience is educated enough to care about these issues. Foreign Affairs and The Economist aren't taken by the Americans I speak of because they don't understand how the issues these publications address effect their lives.
More later, I have to get ready to go out for dinner with my family. :redface:
I just hope you can understand just what life and the world is like for so many Americans outside the sphere of influence of the big cities.
Drifterwood
Superior Member
I deign to have many Colonial friends. :tongue: Even Yankees, so long as they know how to behave.
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