I'll take gay professions for $100, Alex...

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by earllogjam, Sep 10, 2009.

  1. earllogjam

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    Interior Decorator
    Hair Dresser
    Window Designer
    Flight Attendant
    Antique Dealer
    Fashion Designer
    Nurse
    Florist

    Are these really stereotypical "gay" jobs today? If they are why are gay men attracted to these kinds of jobs?

    I'm wondering if stereotypes always hold some truth to them or it they are not really based on any fact in this case as there are straight guys in these professions as well.
     
  2. D_Jared Padalicki

    D_Jared Padalicki Account Disabled

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    i'm studying to become an interiordesigner/architect... Those things are known as studies for gay people... but if you see the people who take those classes you would be suprised how many straight people do that.
    It isn't the best idea to judge someone because of their profession, but yeah, these days it's normal I guess.
     
  3. jason_els

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    Because they were professions that dealt primarily with women and upper class women at that. The upper classes traditionally tolerated homosexuality with a wink and a nod in a way the lower classes did not. These professions also allowed a way for women to interact with men who would not generate scandalous gossip if these women were seen alone with them.

    All this developed in a time when household staff was not an uncommon thing. Even middle class families had at least one housekeeper while upper class families had staff ranging from the single digits to veritable armies. At the same time, women could only be in the presence of non-male relatives when a chaperon was present. That could range from a lady's maid to another close relative. Engaging with strange men, even if vendors or married male friends, was seen as inappropriate.

    When gay men entered these professions, women were suddenly allowed to visit a man's shop on their own, engage their services, and invite them into their home without a chaperon. They were the few men whom a woman could enjoy the company of without raising eyebrows. That was as valuable to the gay men as to the women and it's one of the reasons that gay men like these became not just socially acceptable among the upper classes, but socialites in their own right. One would only order flowers from the fashionable young man, one would only hire the interior decorators who did other upper class houses, one would only go to the man who called upon Mrs. Astor to do her hair. That's how rigid Gilded Age society was (that's the time gay men began to be out in the most limited manner possible). Other professions included milliners, footmen and butlers, and secretaries. It wasn't until the advent of typewriters that secretarial services became a women's profession. Many of these jobs paid so little that no man could support a family so only men who were potentially out of the breeding stock could afford to take the jobs.

    Men have only recently entered nursing and flight attendant fields due to the reversal of discrimination. Both were exclusively female areas since the beginning because, for flight attendants, airlines wanted to hire only attractive young women to attract male business fliers, and, for nurses, the character of woman was seen to be naturally capable of care and compassion beyond what a man was capable of. Nurses could be comforting in a motherly way which was seen to be helpful. The same with teaching of elementary level children.

    That's not to say women had it easy by any means. Though these women had independent income they were paid little and they were expected to live a morally decorous life. Any hint of inappropriate behavior could get them fired. Nurses usually lived in dormitories, had to be home by a certain hour, had to dress conservatively, and could never entertain men in their quarters. The desk matron/rottweiler kept a watchful eye on everyone.

    Of course gay men could enter any area of work he desired so long as stayed closeted and had a family.
     
  4. gjorg

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    A lot of the Professions you mention have to deal with creativity.
    My Doctor is Homosexual as is my Attorney, Carpenter and household handyman.
    I know a few bus drivers, construction workers etc......get out more often!
    There are probably five times more straight acting homosexuals than effeminate ones.
    Places like the Azores don't think they have gay men, sure they have men who sleep with men but..... They think "Gay is an American or French thing".
    There is a difference between Gay and Homosexual.
     
  5. gjorg

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    BTW there is a huge difference between Interior designer and an Interior decorator but most people don't get it!
     
  6. D_Jared Padalicki

    D_Jared Padalicki Account Disabled

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    I know there is a huge difference, but I mentioned it because people still have that idea. I don't choose fabrics for curtains or so, I'm a real designer, not decorator... But yeah not everyone see it like that.
     
    #6 D_Jared Padalicki, Sep 10, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2009
  7. vince

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    Hey! I choose fabrics every chance I get! (which ain't very often these days), so don't knock it. ;) and I'm really good with colour. Decoration is important.

    I have a degrees in architecture and interior design and have applied them to my work in the megayacht industry.

    Gay/Bi guys work everywhere and in any profession. I think N. America lags Europe in acceptance and still those stereotypes are stronger there.

    I know gay Canadian lumberjacks and boatbuilders. I also have a str8 friend who owns a very successful high-end florist in the tonyist section of Vancouver.

    The times they are changing and it's slowly becoming an irrelevant discussion.
     
  8. D_Jared Padalicki

    D_Jared Padalicki Account Disabled

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    Lol, of courseu choose fabrics, we do too, but at the end. The fact is that I'm becoimming an architect for the inside of a house, so really designing.

    And indeed, in every job there are guy/bi guys working, same as women that work in a male environment are seen as lesbian.
     
  9. jason_els

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    Did you guys do the refit of Savarona? It looks spectacular!
     
  10. houtx48

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    stop being snobs about chintz flingers.............
     
  11. bigbull29

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    Effeminate men are often times drawn to those professions. And it happens that a lot of effeminate men are gay (I didn't say "all").

    Gay mechanics and gay construction workers are probably much more masculine and much more closeted. So, it appears that those professions are very "butch and heterosexual."
     
  12. nudeyorker

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    I always like your threads because I have to take a minute or two to think, but you know, I don't feel gay in Palm Springs, or when I'm working I only feel gay when I am behind closed doors with someone. If you let a job or neighborhood define you then you are living in a Pink Collar world in the ghetto. I've had a variety of careers in my life as I have posted in another thread and there are gay and straight people working in them together in perfect harmony at times. My question is why draw lines of what is gay and not gay? I always tell people to follow their heart when considering a career or change in their life. Who knows if I had followed my own advice you could be my bitch in Cairo now!:eek:
    From the other thread!
    As a child I went to Egypt and subsequently wanted to become an Egyptologist...on the way to where I am today I have been a ...
    Lifeguard
    Model
    Dancer
    Actor
    Stunt Man
    Teacher
    Flight Attendant
    Waiter
    Bartender
    Scuba Instructor
    Ski Instructor
    Chef
    Lawyer
    Now I'm a Voice Over announcer for television commercials and soon to be voice in an animated film.
     
  13. vince

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    No I didn't, but I worked for the company that did it. But it was a couple of years before I moved here. It is indeed spectacular! The marble work is incredible.
     
  14. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    I'd love to see her in-person someday. As it is, I only have the 360 walk-throughs to go by. I was very impressed by the quality of the work given her advanced age. My hat's off to the people who did the retrofit and to the government for not letting her slip into dereliction. Savarona is a treasure of the ship world.
     
  15. Principessa

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    I have a request. :redface: Not sure how things are done where you are, but new homes in the USA rarely have enough closets, storage, or electrical outlets for life in the 21st century. Granted my affinity for purchasing home goods may seem compulsive to the average male, straight or gay.
    That said, I think all homes should have:
    • a walk-in pantry,
    • a walk-in linen closet.
    • I'm not a fan of odd shaped rooms. No trapezoids please, stick with rectangles or squares. That's better feng shui anyway. :smile:
    • And windows, give us plenty! At least 2 per room. I LOVE natural light. :smile: Make them a normal size, so we can buy curtains, shade, blinds, and drapes in a store and not to have them custom made.
    • The laundry room should have a large sink and actually be a room, not a cubby, in a hallway. We need counter space to fold clothes, ideally we should be able to leave the ironing board up and out of the walking path. Cabinets for detergents and stain removers would be great as well.
     
  16. earllogjam

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    Maybe these professions in the 50's were ones where you didn't have to be a round peg in a square hole and need to uncomfortably fake being a macho straight guy just to fit into the a straight man's work environment and "team" - like a fireman, corporate exec or plumber would have to. It's probably changed somewhat for some professions but perhaps not for all. It always dismays me when only the women firefighters come out and participate driving the firetrucks in San Francisco Gay Pride Parade.

    Yes, fortunately the gay profession stereotypes are fading. Good for straight guys who want to be decorators, or florists or nurses but never pursued them because of a perceived stigma.


    Architecture is 90% minding the details and 10% creative design, if that. It's not architecture school, where those percentages are reversed.

    My sexuality is part of who I am. I can't turn it on and off depending on where I work. I feel gay ALL the time, even when I am hiding in the closet, which I did that during my corporate days and it gave me an ulcer.

    It's just easier to be who you are, a gay man, at a place of work that understands, or tolerates or celebrates your gayness. I would think twice about taking a job as a firefighter at a homophobic station simply because much of your work life revolves around teamwork and support of fellow workers. You rarely work in a vacuum. So in that respect gays don't have the freedom as straights to follow their hearts in any career or change in life because being openly gay is still not completely socially acceptable in all work circles.

    Although the restrictions are less now than say 50 years ago they are still there - some professions more so than others. There was a definite glass ceiling for open gay guys in the corporate America I worked in.
     
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