I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this sobering article

[Wyldgusechaz]

I should stay out of this but I won't. Like a moth to a flame.

If AIDS is rising in the African American community we can squarely place the blame on the African American community. This is an easy science project, we have an experiment with controls, white heterosexuals and gay men. If blacks are getting the disease well out of proportion to these controls groups then its the the black commnity that needs to shoulder the blame, not the Federal government, as Bbucko's link tries to do. People need to be responsible for their own health and blacks are looking to be sexually irresponsible both in America and surely in Africa.

I know white swingers who have sex with literally scores of partners a year and are STD free. They just play safe. I have heard that black men consider it to be a sign of weakness to wear a condom. It could be an apocryphal theory but it seems to be born out in the stats.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

My GOD, the ignorance. When does it ever stop?
Facequeen... think OUTSIDE the box. Radically religious people have always preached abstinence and may other bible-related rhetoric as the only way to combat unwanted pregnancy and the transmission of STDs. They not only disregard any scientifically proven facts on the matter, but they go to the extreme level of preventing this information from being accessible for those who actually want to know more about it. Not everyone is required to follow the teachings or advice of religion, even when it pertains to sex. Maybe if the hyper-religious stuck to raising and taking care of their own instead of sticking their noses in the business of those who seek other knowledge, we wouldn't have such a problem with HIV in the world? And if you've noticed, I've not mentioned Democrat or Republican, Liberal or Conservative in this statement even ONE TIME. Keep that in mind as you TRY to think of a rebuttal.

And seriously, Wyld, with your ignorant, racially biased self... kindly STFU.
There's a bigger explanation to why many minorities (including the African American community) have higher HIV rates and it has nothing to do with whether or not they want to wear a condom. Because let it be know... I've been with PLENTY of men of your shade that are the first to talk about "barebacking" like it's the best thing to sex since Viagra. It's all about immediate access to HIV prevention, and poor areas just don't get it as much as the wealthier areas. There's also a major social stigma in place, thanks to the radicals of religion who are adamant in stomping out anything they don't agree with. Put one and one together and you get the REAL answer. Not some bullshit based on some mundane belief of a superior race.

 

[Bbucko]

What would Darwin vs. Jesus Christ of done?

The liberals hate the answer to that question... given the Ixoye/fish-poking emblems on their Subaru Outbacks.

Lots to chew on with this FK:

1) I am not a liberal. I have outlined my political philosophy here and elsewhere, but as it falls so far out of the spectrum of neat, easy-to-digest labeled boxes I'd bet better-than-even money that you wouldn't even be able to grasp any of it.

I have a visceral horror of any and all authority: left, right and center. I am an Anarchist, and have lived my entire adult life in society's margins. I doubt there'd be a single thing about my bio you'd find even remotely possible to relate to. As I live life to please myself and according to my own (very high, actually) standards of ethics, I've never been swayed by the opinion of anyone not directly interactive with my life, and even then take it under advisement rather than see any need to conform to anyone's notions of right and wrong.

At the same time, I am completely socialistic in my approach to government. Although I loathe them all equally, I understand that only government can provide such essentials as universally available health care and transportation, among many other items. Under unregulated capitalism, profit is the sole mechanism for advancing the common good. This a priori leaves the disenfranchised out of the equation, to the detriment of all members of society, not just those disenfranchised.

This dispute goes back to the very founding of our counrty, with the whole split between urban populations (represented by John Adams, among many) and Jeffersonian ideals of arcadian rurality. The compromises between the two factions run right through the American Experience from the very beginning. One might think that the Civil War might have put an end to the notion that cities are evil and un-American, but no such luck.

I come from old-growth, New England stock, which always understood the necessity of proper governance. Massachusetts has always been a Commonwealth, and the American Revolution started in Boston, not the Virginia plantation country. The area we now call Beacon Hill (which was drastically modified in the early 19th century) was largely a community of black Freemen. FWIW, Boston was also home to the foundation of the Abolitionists, from where it grew accross the country. This was considered the "bleeding heart" movement of its day, and stood firmly against the concept that property rights trump human rights. Boston also subsidized the construction of the first subway in North America, years before there was anything similar in New York or Paris.

2) Darwin was horrified to see his concept of natural selection applied to social constructs, and was a deeply pious Christian. Jesus wold have devoted at least part of his ministry to comforting people living with HIV: he certainly "palled around" with enough lepers. He would also insist that access to health care based on one's ability to pay is deeply immoral and fundamentally evil.

3) I'm really at a loss to see why you resurrected this old thread. Making cheap political points on the backs of people living with HIV is beneath even you, or so I would have thought.

And just in case anyone reading this is unaware of the fact, I've been living with AIDS since 1983, when HIV was called HTLV3. I don't know for certain, but I'd be willing to bet that no one on this board has a deeper knowledge of the virus, how it effects the body, and how it has forever altered humanity. I am also up-to-the-minute on issues like treatment research and how the government funds everything from preventative information and reasearch to getting people to and from their doctor's appointments and supplies of lifesaving medication. It's part of my job.

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

My GOD, the ignorance. When does it ever stop?
Facequeen... think OUTSIDE the box. Radically religious people have always preached abstinence and may other bible-related rhetoric as the only way to combat unwanted pregnancy and the transmission of STDs. They not only disregard any scientifically proven facts on the matter, but they go to the extreme level of preventing this information from being accessible for those who actually want to know more about it. Not everyone is required to follow the teachings or advice of religion, even when it pertains to sex. Maybe if the hyper-religious stuck to raising and taking care of their own instead of sticking their noses in the business of those who seek other knowledge, we wouldn't have such a problem with HIV in the world? And if you've noticed, I've not mentioned Democrat or Republican, Liberal or Conservative in this statement even ONE TIME. Keep that in mind as you TRY to think of a rebuttal.

And seriously, Wyld, with your ignorant, racially biased self... kindly STFU.
There's a bigger explanation to why many minorities (including the African American community) have higher HIV rates and it has nothing to do with whether or not they want to wear a condom. Because let it be know... I've been with PLENTY of men of your shade that are the first to talk about "barebacking" like it's the best thing to sex since Viagra. It's all about immediate access to HIV prevention, and poor areas just don't get it as much as the wealthier areas. There's also a major social stigma in place, thanks to the radicals of religion who are adamant in stomping out anything they don't agree with. Put one and one together and you get the REAL answer. Not some bullshit based on some mundane belief of a superior race.

Sorry but you are wrong. AIDS is also increasing amongst rural blacks of the South. When compared to rural whites of the same economic and social strata, Blacks still get AIDS way out of proportion to whites. Same access to care, same access to condoms, same EVERYTHING.

Here: >>>The HIV/AIDS epidemic is concentrated in poor communities, where African Americans are disproportionately represented. This is particularly true in the Deep South, where populations are approximately 30% Black, compared to the 18.5% in other southern states. Overall, 25% of African Americans live in poverty and are 1.5 times more likely than Whites to lack health insurance. Medical and social service barriers for African Americans are not uncommon in the rural South, and access to HIV medication and care is no exception. Many African Americans feel distrust and anger towards the healthcare system due to historical oppression and enduring medical inequalities. This has led to conspiracy theories that are believed by even the most educated and has created barriers for HIV prevention.
HIV prevalence in the Deep South cannot be studied without a look at historical and cultural factors as well. Many people often blame the lack of medical professionals and poor access to healthcare for the South’s high HIV rates, yet the South is just as rural as the Midwest and does not have fewer health providers than other rural areas. The southern “culture of politeness” prevents discussion of topics that are deemed offensive, such as sex and homosexuality.<<<


And your anecdotal story of white men wanting to go bareback is just that, a story. Why is it always the government fault? Don't you ever get tired of blaming others for what is intrinsically not other's fault? Do you ever take responsibilty? Is it always the government fault for everything?

Why all the AIDS in Africa? Is that the Americans fault? Your song gets old, "Its not our fault, its not our fault, its not our fault!!!" Well in this case, "Yes it is."

 

[houtx48]

star night star bright stay on topic tonight, or do you need a link for that too?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Sorry but you are wrong. AIDS is also increasing amongst rural blacks of the South. When compared to rural whites of the same economic and social strata, Blacks still get AIDS way out of proportion to whites. Same access to care, same access to condoms, same EVERYTHING.

I underlined where your statement fails. TREMENDOUSLY.
You've probably never grown up poor, or never even lived in a truly impoverished area before. I have, and I can tell you from experience that most poor areas do NOT get the same access to health care. And it doesn't stop there. Education, housing, police protection, etc... the whole package. I lived in a poor city and was bussed to school in a more wealthier suburb all throughout grade school. And while playing sports, I was bussed to other richer suburbs and seen the same exact thing.

It's VERY foolish of you to just point to one particular area and base that on your entire argument. Then again, you've openly admitted that you have something against African American males in previous threads so listening to anything you say on this subject, knowing your extreme bias, pretty much invalidates it as being anywhere close to objective. The main issue around HIV surrounds the poor, and that includes all races although minorities make up the most numbers when dealing with this social demographic. Look at all of the areas that are suffering with sharp rises in new HIV/AIDS cases, and then look at the average income of the average family in each of them.

And your anecdotal story of white men wanting to go bareback is just that, a story/

It's not just a story. Despite it being a problem across the board, the evidence is there for people to see especially if you watch gay porn. Then again, being that you're a straight boy I wouldn't expect you to know. So, consider yourself enlightened. And if you want to challenge that, I provided pictures.

Bareback Porn Movies & Gay Bareback Sex Videos

Why is it always the government fault?

Did I once blame the government in my last statement? Re-read it and find where I did? I'll give you a big hint... I DIDN'T.

Don't you ever get tired of blaming others for what is intrinsically not other's fault? Do you ever take responsibilty?

Do you actually THINK before you type? Have you ever muttered a non-racially biased thought in your life? Is everything in your shallow, little world based on skin color?

Is it always the government fault for everything?

Again... did I ever blame the government?

Why all the AIDS in Africa? Is that the Americans fault?

Nice idiotic premise. I take it you figure that no caucasions live in Africa, nor anyone of them have HIV. You probably assume that an African male brought the virus to so-called "caucasion America", which is completely unfounded and have absolutely no credible evidence. You make it SO easy to discredit you. I can find better knowledge from a Fisher Price "Speak & Say".

Your song gets old

So sayeth the lonely, middle-aging, race baiting bigot who still bellows the rhetoric of Old Dixie.

"Its not our fault, its not our fault, its not our fault!!!" Well in this case, "Yes it is."

Hey, I'm not one of the wealthy, nor am I one of the socially ignorant, religious bigots who would ever try and block the access of sexual education or contraceptives from reaching those who need it. And I'm thankful for being able to say that I'm still negative. So really, it ISN'T my fault.

 

[Bbucko]

Sorry but you are wrong. AIDS is also increasing amongst rural blacks of the South. When compared to rural whites of the same economic and social strata, Blacks still get AIDS way out of proportion to whites. Same access to care, same access to condoms, same EVERYTHING.

Here: >>>The HIV/AIDS epidemic is concentrated in poor communities, where African Americans are disproportionately represented. This is particularly true in the Deep South, where populations are approximately 30% Black, compared to the 18.5% in other southern states. Overall, 25% of African Americans live in poverty and are 1.5 times more likely than Whites to lack health insurance. Medical and social service barriers for African Americans are not uncommon in the rural South, and access to HIV medication and care is no exception. Many African Americans feel distrust and anger towards the healthcare system due to historical oppression and enduring medical inequalities. This has led to conspiracy theories that are believed by even the most educated and has created barriers for HIV prevention.
HIV prevalence in the Deep South cannot be studied without a look at historical and cultural factors as well. Many people often blame the lack of medical professionals and poor access to healthcare for the South’s high HIV rates, yet the South is just as rural as the Midwest and does not have fewer health providers than other rural areas. The southern “culture of politeness” prevents discussion of topics that are deemed offensive, such as sex and homosexuality.<<<


And your anecdotal story of white men wanting to go bareback is just that, a story. Why is it always the government fault? Don't you ever get tired of blaming others for what is intrinsically not other's fault? Do you ever take responsibilty? Is it always the government fault for everything?

Why all the AIDS in Africa? Is that the Americans fault? Your song gets old, "Its not our fault, its not our fault, its not our fault!!!" Well in this case, "Yes it is."

The Southern AIDS Coalition has all the facts in black and white (pardon the pun). Whether or not you recognize it, institutionalized bias and stigma aren't some San Francisco activist's wet dream.

There are many factors at play here, including the entrenched homophobia and distaste for anything related to sexual matters among the very conservative black church, and the "war on drugs" that has resulted in much higher incarceration rates among blacks (hint: there are no condoms in prison).

It's also a fact that fully 60% of everyone living in the US live at or below 150% of FPL (Federal Poverty Level). All the clucking about knowing about risk presupposes a level of social and cultural sophistication that simply cannot be applied to extremely poor people living in the rural areas of the South.

There's also a real turf war going on in Domestic AIDS right now. While we have sent billions of dollars overseas for Bush's vanity project PEPFAR, funding for Ryan White and ADAP (which provide payer-of-last resort health care and medications for Americans living with HIV/AIDS but without health insurance) have been effectively flatlined since 2002. The results have been waiting lists and cost-containment measures (including rationing) that have cost American lives.

As the need continues to grow by as much as 20% per year, the funds haven't. This pits the places with a long-standing infrastructure of care and service (New York, Florida and California, as well as cities like Chicago and Boston) against those with little if any as the demographics of the epidemic have changed over the last 10 years.

One also needs to keep in mind that fully 30% (some estimates are higher) of everyone in the US carrying the virus doesn't know he/she's infected. They are silently spreading the plague across the entire population spectrum. I've always said that HIV/AIDS will not be taken as seriously as it needs to be until the daughters of CEOs start testing positive. As long as it remains a disease of the disadvantaged and disenfranchised, the stigma will remain and the virus will spread. And there are no studies I've ever seen that suggest that whites take any greater precaution in preventing STDs than anyone else.

One demographic not mentioned in this black/white dichotomy is the Latino population. For many years, the fastest-growing single demographic of new infections was among Hispanic females. It's only been the rise in infection rates among black youth and women that seems to have quieted down all the fuss.

Finally: all this talk about "personal responsibility" in the face of a medical crisis is pretty revolting. An HIV positive test result reduces life expectancy by 25 years, and dooms one to a level of medical supervision that anyone not living with the virus would find incredibly burdensome. AIDS eventually shreds your finances, your GI tract and your central nervous system, all at a slow but steady rate. It alters everything from your diet to your vacation plans to your sex life. People living with HIV pay an enormous amount for their having been infected, ultimately with their very lives. I'm unclear how much additional suffering the stigma of "poor choices" really makes anything better. Over the last 25 years, it hasn't even worked as a good prevention tool.

 

[Mackey]

When I was in high school 4 years ago we learned about condoms and safe sex. Don't know where people are getting this abstinence stuff from.

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

Finally: all this talk about "personal responsibility" in the face of a medical crisis is pretty revolting. An HIV positive test result reduces life expectancy by 25 years, and dooms one to a level of medical supervision that anyone not living with the virus would find incredibly burdensome. AIDS eventually shreds your finances, your GI tract and your central nervous system, all at a slow but steady rate. It alters everything from your diet to your vacation plans to your sex life. People living with HIV pay an enormous amount for their having been infected, ultimately with their very lives. I'm unclear how much additional suffering the stigma of "poor choices" really makes anything better. Over the last 25 years, it hasn't even worked as a good prevention tool.

Who is going to protect you from getting that horrible disease if it isn't you? Yes personal responsibility is everything in this case. Yes your choices matter. You cannot absolve people from getting AIDS today when the means of prevention is clear. Its YOUR life. If you won't cherish it, who will?

I will use a simple but effective analogy. I went to a gun range a month ago. Shooting guns, high powered rifles and pistols. Everything about the range was designed to allow us to enjoy shooting without dying. Have fun but don't get killed. Know what you are doing and follow simple safe and effective rules to enjoy your hobby without dying.

If we can't protect people from themselves, what hope is there? The state cannot protect folks from themsleves. You get AIDS nowadays you pretty much fucked up somewhere. Maybe not in every case but in most.

 

[Bbucko]

When I was in high school 4 years ago we learned about condoms and safe sex. Don't know where people are getting this abstinence stuff from.

Every state administers its own federal money separately. Some states have historically put in as much as 50% of the total allotment themselves. Others don't put in a dime and rely exclusively on money from Washington. The federal money comes with strings, including abstinence-only prevention and education: if you accept their money you are obliged to follow their rules (it makes sense). States with large, home-grown Ryan White/ADAP budgets set their own priorities and spend their own money as they see fit.

There is no National AIDS Strategy in the US, although we require it as one of many preconditions to receiving PEPFAR money overseas. The Obama administration is dedicated to developing one, and the resent appointee to head AIDS policy gives me much reason to hope that the darkest days are behind us now. All the same, it's much easier to be cynical than optimistic about HIV/AIDS generally, and there will be some fierce resistance from the states that depend the most on federal largess (the South and Mountain West).

If you benefited from reality-based safer-sex education in public high school, consider yourself very lucky. It's a rarity.

 

[Bbucko]

Who is going to protect you from getting that horrible disease if it isn't you? Yes personal responsibility is everything in this case. Yes your choices matter. You cannot absolve people from getting AIDS today when the means of prevention is clear. Its YOUR life. If you won't cherish it, who will?

I will use a simple but effective analogy. I went to a gun range a month ago. Shooting guns, high powered rifles and pistols. Everything about the range was designed to allow us to enjoy shooting without dying. Have fun but don't get killed. Know what you are doing and follow simple safe and effective rules to enjoy your hobby without dying.

If we can't protect people from themselves, what hope is there? The state cannot protect folks from themsleves. You get AIDS nowadays you pretty much fucked up somewhere. Maybe not in every case but in most.

You are straining to make points here that even you think sound funny when read back, Chaz.

I never said that anyone other than the person living with AIDS is responsible for his/her condition. I have actually gotten into some rather heated arguments here (via PM) from people looking to maintain the myth of the "innocent victim". There are no innocent victims, there is no one who fits the reverse; we are all just people: human, imperfect people.

It takes a lot of letting go to arrive at that realization. But survival depends on it. As a long-term survivor who has flatlined twice and battled back from the brink, I know what I'm saying here.

Your example of the firing range is actually pretty good. The state of mind one has on a firing range is completely different from the one people have when they're having (or trying to score some) sex. People get intoxicated. People feel lonesome. People feel that their lives aren't worth a damn because they've told that their entire lives. Imagine if the level of emotionalism and lack of rationality that brings many people to sexual encounters were the rule on the target range!

This does not excuse them and it does not lessen their culpability for what's happened to them in their lives. But I maintain that no one lives with the consequences of their human frailties more than those living with HIV/AIDS. Hammering away about their having fucked up is largely an exercise in emotional masturbation for those who think that way: it's a lot of energy expended that goes absolutely nowhere except to prolong the stigma and shame that so many of us feel anyway.

If it makes anyone around here feel better by making people with a terminal condition feel like shit for having acquired it, go for it. But talk about low-hanging fruit...

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Who is going to protect you from getting that horrible disease if it isn't you? Yes personal responsibility is everything in this case. Yes your choices matter. You cannot absolve people from getting AIDS today when the means of prevention is clear. Its YOUR life. If you won't cherish it, who will?

If we can't protect people from themselves, what hope is there? The state cannot protect folks from themsleves. You get AIDS nowadays you pretty much fucked up somewhere. Maybe not in every case but in most.

In other words, you believe in abstinence only education? Being that you're on a website for big dicks, I'll assume the answer is no. Because even having sex with a condom isn't a 100% guarantee. Even the most "personally responsible" person is not immune, and can still contract it.

So where do you place yourself? The abstinent, or the lucky? There are no third choices.

 

[Gillette]

I will use a simple but effective analogy. I went to a gun range a month ago. Shooting guns, high powered rifles and pistols. Everything about the range was designed to allow us to enjoy shooting without dying. Have fun but don't get killed. Know what you are doing and follow simple safe and effective rules to enjoy your hobby without dying.

On the gun range I expect you were aware of the dangers involved with handling a gun. You were instructed in the correct precautions to take. And safeguards were made available to you.

The point being made here is that people can't adequately protect themselves if they aren't properly educated on the dangers, properly educated on prevention and don't have safeguards made available to them.

You asked earlier if the AIDS in Africa was the fault of the US.
Kinda. American AIDS relief to Africa has carried an enormous evangelical tone and promotes abstinence over actual protection.