Imagining the Tenth Dimension

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GottaBigOne said:
It's ridiculous because it ignores a really obvious fact: There is only one reality!

There can not be an "infinite amount of possibilities of universe outcomes" existing at the same "time" because the universe IS only one thing and it can not be anything else, and "other possible futures" DO NOT EXIST yet! so when you make it to one future there aren't any other presents that could have been and are in other dimensions or universes.

Also, this whole talk about 2 dimensional creatures is a total waste of time and mental energy. 2 dimensional creatures can not exist, there can not BE anything that has height and width but no depth, it is utterly ridiculous to talk about anything existing outside of the three spatial dimensions and time.

First off I'll deal with your views on 2 dimensions. Two. Words.

Mobius. Strip. How can something in a three dimensional plane have one edge and one side? Hmmm??? It can't. Technically the Mobius strip is actually a three dimensional representation of a two dimensional shape.

Next, I don't believe it ever said that there was more than one reality. It said the different POSSIBILITIES. If you're going to kvetch on pointlessly, don't put words in the mouths of others. Danke.

Finally:

About your "one universe" this, "can't happen" that, I wonder if you've ever thought about it on a smaller scale, hmm? Are there not several different different ways you could play a single shot in a game of billiards? Unless you're snookered, yes. Now, aren't there an almost infinite different number possible game time-lines? You're not going to get the same game twice in a row! When you're playing pool, are you not playing through the shot in your mind to see how best to play it? That's a realization of different possibilities! You're examining the possible outcomes and deciding which one you like best.

Now, I hope that you're done being all farklempt because I'm pretty sure I've had enough giving out grossly simplified quantum physics lessons for the day.

As ever,
Dmetri
 

GottaBigOne

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A mobius strip is NOT a 2 dimensional object, because 2 dimensional objects dont exist IN REALITY. Like you said its an illustration, it is NOT actual.

I have no problem accepting different possibilities in regards to human (or animal) action. Humans possess volition so they can choose different routes and therefore come to different endings, however once enacted, a cause can not be changed and neither can its effects. This is what they were talking about in something like the 7th dimension, where all possible outcomes exist as one point, that is, they actually exist at the same time. This is impossible. Possibilites are potentials, not ACTUALs. They do not exist. This is the whole entire problem with quantum physics in that it treats probabilites as an existent. It is not.

Also, the burden of proof is not on me. I can give proof of the four dimensions we can percieve, it is up to YOU to prove the unseeable or even highly unimaginable ones.
 

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GottaBigOne said:
It's ridiculous because it ignores a really obvious fact: There is only one reality!

There can not be an "infinite amount of possibilities of universe outcomes" existing at the same "time" because the universe IS only one thing and it can not be anything else, and "other possible futures" DO NOT EXIST yet! so when you make it to one future there aren't any other presents that could have been and are in other dimensions or universes.

Also, this whole talk about 2 dimensional creatures is a total waste of time and mental energy. 2 dimensional creatures can not exist, there can not BE anything that has height and width but no depth, it is utterly ridiculous to talk about anything existing outside of the three spatial dimensions and time.
Sounds to me like you're just not using your imagination!

:tongue:
 

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GottaBigOne said:
Heheh. I can use my imagination, I just don't accept that my imagination can make things real in reality.

It gets very dangerous when you start to do that.
You're no fun.

I'm going to go conjure up a dragon with my mind now. 'Kay bye.
 

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GottaBigOne said:
It's ridiculous because it ignores a really obvious fact: There is only one reality!

There can not be an "infinite amount of possibilities of universe outcomes" existing at the same "time" because the universe IS only one thing and it can not be anything else, and "other possible futures" DO NOT EXIST yet! so when you make it to one future there aren't any other presents that could have been and are in other dimensions or universes.

what the shit are you talking about? i think that that flash presentation was more to just give people a general idea about this "new" theory; not to be taken literally. they do have the math to back this theory.

Also, this whole talk about 2 dimensional creatures is a total waste of time and mental energy. 2 dimensional creatures can not exist, there can not BE anything that has height and width but no depth, it is utterly ridiculous to talk about anything existing outside of the three spatial dimensions and time.

this was also just an example, not to be taken literally, to get people acquainted with the larger idea.
 

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GottaBigOne said:
It's ridiculous because it ignores a really obvious fact: There is only one reality!

Oh dear, thats sounding an awful lot like a metaphysical statement, then we get into philosophy which gets messy. Short answer - prove it. :wink:


There can not be an "infinite amount of possibilities of universe outcomes" existing at the same "time" because the universe IS only one thing and it can not be anything else, and "other possible futures" DO NOT EXIST yet! so when you make it to one future there aren't any other presents that could have been and are in other dimensions or universes.

Actually the other possible universes do exist, as possibilities, which, as it explained are probability waves. Thats all latched up to String Theory in complicated ways I don't pretend to understand, but the short answer again is that they do exist, perhaps not as a "physical entity" but as waves of probaiblity.

But the entire concept of dimensions means that alternate "univeres" are a very real possiblity, although "universe" becomes a bit of a crap word to use as it refers to "everything".

Its kind of like sitting at a breakfast table and asking yourself - "Do I want cereal, prridge or toast?" each of these possibilities exist as a possibility, and theres an associated probability wave thingy that collapses when you decide on what you are going to have.

Also, this whole talk about 2 dimensional creatures is a total waste of time and mental energy. 2 dimensional creatures can not exist, there can not BE anything that has height and width but no depth, it is utterly ridiculous to talk about anything existing outside of the three spatial dimensions and time.

It wasnt trying to say that they exist. Were you too busy fuming after the first 5 minutes to pay any attention? it used two dimensional beings as a way to explain the higher dimensions via the analogy of a two dimensional being folding reality through the third dimension in order to instantly move from one place to another in it's own dimension.
 

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Alright, while it's true that the Mobius strip is merely a representation, how else can we demonstrate an undemonstratable principle other than to use merely a representation. How can you show an Inuit what an elephant is if they've never seen one? How about a jungle? There's no way without actually showing them. What if there was no way of shipping off your little Inuit to Africa? Then what? How else can you show, teach without representations.

Now for the real issue. Really, the Mobius strip at the moment is a moot point.

What makes humans different than a random jumble of chemicals? Oh yes! We're not random, are we? Alright then, what makes us different than a crystal? Both a human and a crystal are organized, they both have a readily defined structure, shouldn't they be one in the same? No, not quite...but what's different, hmmm? Change! Concious change! We can think, make decisions, change how we want to. A crystal had no control over how it changes. It can't move into the shallows of a river to avoid errosion; it can't make more of itself, whether by a- or sexual reproduction. But this still is not the issue, is it? No, but it leads to it.

While I will concede that the universe cannot "choose" which possible outcome it ends up; it, via conditions set up at the beginning of the universe, what ever that was, the universe should theoretically only be able to follow one time line. But...where does probability come in then? Were the universe the way you would have it seem there would be no possible outcomes in a life-less universe except for the one that the universe is currently leading to. There would be only one way for a coin to flip. There would be no way of saying "What if?" because there is nothing that could change.

This is a frankly stupid simplification of the way things work. For one thing, there's this wonderful man Heisenberg standing in the way of your view. Him, Planck, Einstein, and dozens of other scientists who all believe, or believed so strongly in probability that they put their names on the work.

Before you continue your ranting which is backed by the same science that Ptolemy used to "figure out" that the Earth was a plate on the back of a turtle, I would advise you actually think about the other side of the fence, hmm? Without an open mind how can new thoughts get in?

And I really don't care how much I get scorned for saying this, but you're acting like a fanaticist, clinging to your false ideas like a drowning man to his floating friend, pulled them both down in a flailing dischord.
 

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GottaBigOne said:
Also, this whole talk about 2 dimensional creatures is a total waste of time and mental energy. 2 dimensional creatures can not exist, there can not BE anything that has height and width but no depth, it is utterly ridiculous to talk about anything existing outside of the three spatial dimensions and time.

Does a shadow have depth?
 

Heather LouAnna

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GottaBigOne said:
It's ridiculous because it ignores a really obvious fact: There is only one reality!

There can not be an "infinite amount of possibilities of universe outcomes" existing at the same "time" because the universe IS only one thing and it can not be anything else, and "other possible futures" DO NOT EXIST yet! so when you make it to one future there aren't any other presents that could have been and are in other dimensions or universes.

Also, this whole talk about 2 dimensional creatures is a total waste of time and mental energy. 2 dimensional creatures can not exist, there can not BE anything that has height and width but no depth, it is utterly ridiculous to talk about anything existing outside of the three spatial dimensions and time.
You never took physics did you? Don't quit your day job. You should watch the String Theory special on Nova. It's free online. It's three hours long and explains it very easily and very slowly so anyone can grasp it fully.
 

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dong20 said:
Does a shadow have depth?

A shadow is the dark area cause by one object blocking a direct path to another from a light source.

It doesnt have anything, it's simply a way of identifying the visual effect caused by said phenomenon. It isn't physical in any sense of the word.
 

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SomeGuyOverThere said:
A shadow is the dark area cause by one object blocking a direct path to another from a light source.

It doesnt have anything, it's simply a way of identifying the visual effect caused by said phenomenon. It isn't physical in any sense of the word.

What about the colour of one's skin?
 

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Heather LouAnna said:
Love it! Pure quality.

They have the entire three hours of The Elegant Universe on Nova's website for free. I suggest that everyone watch it at least once in their lives. It will certainly open your eyes.
Heather LouAnna,

Thank you very much for this link. I had heard about "The Elegant Universe" before but had never gotten the opportunity to see it. I sincerely appreciate your making it available to me. No doubt I'll enjoy it immensely in the wee hours of the morning.

Gratefully,
Chase
 

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SomeGuyOverThere said:
A shadow is the dark area cause by one object blocking a direct path to another from a light source.

It doesnt have anything, it's simply a way of identifying the visual effect caused by said phenomenon. It isn't physical in any sense of the word.

But you can see it so it must exist. It has width, it has length and it can vary with time so by your terms it must have depth.

So, the removal of something physical results in the creation of something else that is visible and interactive but doesn't really exist in the physical realm yet it clearly does.

Imagine :rolleyes: If you had never seen a shadow and didn't understand the variable nature of light and I described a shadow in the terms above, you would probably think it was preposterous as it would be beyond rational understanding, you would therefore almost certainly deny it's existence.

To me that is exactly what you are doing here; by denying the existence of a theory because it is a) Beyond your understanding and/or b) Outside your physical 'reality' or experience and sounds riduculous.