In Defense of President Obama; A Criticism of Mega-Corporate "free market" capitalism

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Mar 20, 2009.

  1. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    There appear to be a lot of conservatives on this site (and on talk radio), who seem obscenely eager to lay the blame of the current economic crisis squarely at Obama's feet (AIG bonuses are Obama's fault; governmental bailouts are Obama's fault; the need for more governmental regulation of Wall Street, giant corporations, spells "socialism" for pure "free market" conservatives... Obama's fault). In fact, conservatives have turned Obama into an all-purpose voodoo doll that they stick with pins: they retroactively attribute all the ills and excesses of the Bush administration directly onto the most visible lib.

    And nevermind that Obama walked into office on Januray 20, 2009 -- only two months ago to the day. Irrelevant!


    It's a huge game of "gotcha!" politics.... Conservatives are so frustrated and angry at "W" they are engaging in what psychologists call "transference", transferring their rage at "W" and their impotence at being politically beside-the-point, a helpless minority.... and their impotence at witnessing the unraveling of their conservative "free market" (no government) economic ideology... onto a liberal target, any target, Obama's the biggest one, he'll do!



    Consider the following headline:

    AIG REPORTS A $61.7 BILLION LOSS FOR THE FOURTH QUARTER OF LAST YEAR, LARGEST CORPORATE LOSS IN HISTORY.

    So, obviously, the economy was in shambles long, long before January 20. In fact, one could argue that this current recession economy is a few years in the making, the direct result of deregulation, corporate greed, little to no governmental oversight (that's called "free market" capitalism on Wall Street).


    If we continue to have mega-corporations like AIG and Citigroup, huge corporate conglomerates that really are "too big to fail", because they are inter-woven and intermixed with so many other "too big to fail" financial institutions (it AIG fails, then Citigroup, B of A, and half of the international banking systems fail), then conservatives must realize that certain "socialistic" solutions (taxpayer bailouts, governmental regulations) are necessary. And NOT OBAMA'S FAULT.
     
  2. Flashy

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    who is blaming Obama for the economy?


    I am not...but I am blaming him for that which he is responsible for going forward which are:

    1. The effect of the very poorly planned stimulus package that he allowed congress to write.

    2. His failure to come up with a comprehensive bank rescue plan, while he is screwing around on ESPN and Leno.

    3. The 3.2 Trillion dollar budget proposal.

    These things are all on his watch now.

    as for the AIG bonuses...he is not responsible for writing them, but he is responsible for them being allowed to appear in his stimulus bill.

    Everything he has passed and proposed is his responsibility. This is the democrat's world now. they have total power. With power comes the responsibility of the things you do.

    Obama did not cause the banking crisis...but he has to solve it. That is what he was elected to do.

    so far, he has not provided any comprehensive economic solutions, no matter what your political orientation.

    all of this ancillary nonsense pales in to comparison...

    you remember the famous and absolutely spot-on comment direct at George HW Bush for his failures? "Its the economy, stupid!"

    that is the focus.

    he may not have caused these things, but he was tasked with fixing or attempting to fix them...and so far, the one main crisis...the economy, is being dealt with very poorly. There is STILL no bank rescue plan. He has still not fully staffed the Treasury Department. His Treasury Secretary is swamped and is treading water with no help or subordinates.

    That is on him. He has said a variation of "the buck stops here".

    so why doesn't he do it? A month ago, he could have gone to the republicans and democrats in congress and said "let's come up with some staffers and deputies that we can all agree wwill get passed and confirmed right away"...let's do it all this afternoon...and boom...the treasury department is staffed...instead, the place is virtually empty of senior leadereship.

    That is not how you manage an economic crisis.

    The fact that there is *STILL* no bailout plan, renders the rest of what he is doing nearly meaningless, since if the economy and banking system does not recover, he will not be able to get his budget, or health care reform, or energy reform passed.

    It is the economy, stupid.

    and it is President Obama's now.
     
  3. pym

    pym New Member

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    It's easy for me.......i just don't believe or accept lies. Nor did a majority of voters who are justifiably glad to have CHANGE. AS far as that described demographic in your post, Who gives a damn about a completely irrelevant voice? What are you going to believe in?......Hope or HANNITY?
    Who shall we gauge progress by? OBAMA or O'rielly?
    Ideology or INFESTOR ?
     
  4. javyn

    javyn New Member

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    I don't see how anyone could blame Obama for our current troubles anymore than blaming Clinton for terrorism.

    The people who are saying it's Obama's fault are just a very loud, petulant minority.
     
  5. Flashy

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    well, pymster, i can understand you not agreeing with the far right or conservatives or most republicans...but they are not completely irrelevant...in fact, based on a NPR (National Public Radio) Poll just taken of 800 likely voters (March 10 - March 14th) the results of a generic 2010 congressional election shows:


    42% for Democrats
    42% for Republicans


    so one never knows true relevance of parties one minute to the next.

    Let's not forget, MCCain and Obama were pretty much neck and neck in the summer and then McCain was even ahead in early september till the economic problems became national news in Septmeber and continued to grow.

    when there are only two viable national choices, like the republicans and democrats, when one screws up or does badly in power...the other naturally reaps the benefit.


    that is the nature of two party dominated politics
     
  6. pym

    pym New Member

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    Flashy: "so why doesn't he do it? A month ago, he could have gone to the republicans and democrats in congress and said "let's come up with some staffers and deputies that we can all agree wwill get passed and confirmed right away"...let's do it all this afternoon...and boom...the treasury department is staffed...instead, the place is virtually empty of senior leadereship."

    You can call me naive here......but i do not believe for even 1 minute that Mr.OBAMA is dragging his feet here. I am rather expectant{myself} that he is taking a very serious look at how to handle an unprecedented fiscal debt situation. I am going to give the man the first 6 months of his presidency to assemble the best team possible to tackle this mess. I do not see it as a conventional problem that can be solved with historical solutions or Conventional Washington type personell. I am sure Obama knows this too. I do not think anyone can acess how to tackle this mess in 2 months. First gather VALID INTELLIGANCE......Gather up your BEST Generals,Then go to war with the problem.
     
  7. Flashy

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    ordinarily i would agree with a semblance of this pymster, but do you know just how bad the banking crisis itself is?

    it is impossible to wait for 1/8th (6 months) of your time in office before even assembling a full team to deal with the most important thing on your agenda.

    the race has already started...it is like saying...my jockey is on his horse in the Kentucky Derby, and i am going to give him 1/8th of the race before i get upset that he did not bring his saddle and whip

    he has had nearly 4.5 months to gather up his full economic team (elected in first week of November) not just two months.

    this is utterly critical. you mentioned that it was an unprecendted fiscal debt situation...it is more than that...it is an absolutely critical banking crisis...this should have been item one on his agenda...instead, we are nearly nine weeks in, and we have not even heard a peep. The White House has not offered

    He has had more than two months to assess this mess...he has known he would be the president since november...this should have been done a month ago. Instead we are nowhere close.

    i would agree on going to war with the problem in your analogy...the problem is, the war started back in January. We are getting creamed on the field while he forms his "staff" and his current generals are absolutely drowning because he gave them no staff and deputies.

    he should have gathered everyone and gone to war when the war started because everyone i know in the market is wondering just what the hell this guy is waiting for. Everyone i know in the market was hoping he was going to come out and hit the ground running, assure the markets that he had a rescue plan and assuage the markets...instead, of everyone is absolutely baffled and very worried.

    This is extremely dangerous in a time when he came in and could not afford to because of the existing situation he inherited...but his lack of action is augmenting it...

    The Fed is pumping a trillion dollars into the system, but we *MUST* fix the banking system, and obama is not doing this, and does not even have a team for it.

    The problem lies in the banking system and by pumping one trillion into the economy, it is very doubtful that Obama or congress is going to put more money into fixing the banking system, which is crucial.

    Kickoff started two months ago, and Obama's offense is out there while missing half of his offensive line, and all his receivers and running backs.

    it is frankly, terrifying.
     
  8. pym

    pym New Member

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    Sure it's terrifying.......I just don't think Senator Obama had the same insights or Information or resources that President Obama has acess too. I do not think it a stretch to say that, massive glossing over of the true magnitude of our country's banking and Fiscal situation was ORDERED by the BUSH administration. I am convinced of that. I fully expect we will be going into debt for several Trillion more before our downward spiral shows any reversal. And i do not consider that 'throwing money at the problem'.
    You know how i feel about people having a personal hand in our country's economic recovery effort.........BUY AMERICAN.
    You know that i am NOT a Stockbroker/banker type, I'm an engineer who has done ok for himself 'personally'. But i have been alive 47 years in this country......and i think i know a good man to back.
    BARACK OBAMA.
     
  9. Bbucko

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    It's only "Gotcha" politics when they actually catch a flub. There's a lot of groping in the dark right now; it's a repeat of the "kitchen sink" strategy that did so well for Republicans during the election, but it's the only game they think they've got.

    Instead of introspection (never a strong Republican virtue), there's been a shrill hardening to the right. Conservatism, whether you agree with the philosophy or not, is a completely valid approach to governing: it keeps things cautious and considered. But what we're seeing isn't an exercise in conservative thinking, it's reactionary emotionalism, and it's the conservative's evil parasitic twin, and it's been holding one of America's only two political parties hostage since the collapse of GHWBush's credibility following the Gulf War.

    It breeds the paranoiac extremism that has stoked the Culture Wars, caused Republicans to start digging for evidence for Clinton's impeachment from the moment he was inaugurated, allowed the intrusion of blatant falsehoods following the September 11th attacks that justified Nationalism and Militarism (want Freedom Fries with that?) that made invading Iraq seem inevitable, and made torture a cornerstone of American foreign policy and intelligence gathering for the first time in our history.

    It's been one long, ugly, ignorant screed again reason and humility. It's brought us DADT, DOMA and Prop 8: when they tore down the Berlin Wall and international communism came to an end as a force balancing us, certain segments of society turned inward, looking for a new Boogieman and found us. It was easier being an openly gay man in 1985 than in 1995, believe me. It's much easier to be ignored than it is to be vilified.

    All that anger and reflexive defensiveness (personified by so many of the sneering, hubristic "conservatives" in this forum) has poison the well of civic debate; the only thing left to do as the house of cards built on greed, deception and scapegoating has collapsed on everybody's heads is to now start screaming "socialism", as if the worst thing that can happen to the US is universal health care, a greater reliance on public transit and larger union representation in America's labor force :wink:

    If the private sector could solve all of our problems then there'd be no need for government to exist. But instead we have a greatly weakened and diminished middle class, SUVs that stink up the air and make us butt-boys to OPEC, and a world financial system in ruins: way to go, Brownie! You're doin' a heck of a job!

    It's no wonder that there's so much emotionalism and deflection on the part of these reactionaries: it's all they have left.
     
  10. Flashy

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    i do not think he is not a good man...i have said before he seems pretty cool on a personal level.

    the difference is, i see things on an economic level, first and only, because most other domestic issues have little effect on my life, and economics is my living.

    As someone who looks at things from the economic point of view, what i see is terrifying, especially with the new CBO numbers that came out today, that put an extra 2 trillion plus dollars on Obama's deficit estimates of his budget.

    that is still being rosy...that is based on hoping that next year and the year after our economy will grow robustly over 4% each year...that is not going to happen...it is going to get even worse, and even uglier.

    that is what makes me angry...his team should have been together already, instead he is screwing around on Leno while geithner is virtually all alone without some very key people.
     
  11. sargon20

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    Well you do know all we needed was another 8 yrs of Republican rule and all government functions would have been sold to industry for pennies on the dollar. Then you would have seen the beautiful wonderful world of pure capitalism. The dream was in sight. Pure greed at work. No government to stand in the way. Small government. No rules or pesky regulations.
    [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]There is only one holistic systems of systems...Governments are irrlevant[/FONT]
     
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