In the future i envisage....way, way in the future...

[798686]

Does a child have the need to strive for anything? Nope.

If people worked less and had more time to enjoy life then people would'nt be so stressed or depressed. There would be little crime.
And ultimately the very thing that most people want is just to be happy. Life as it is spoils hopes and dreams more than encourage them.

Speaking as someone who strives to make ends meet from the start of a month to the end i can tell you that life already feels soulless and depressing.

I know what you mean, but there needs to be a work-life balance.

Speaking as someone who has been out of work for long periods, I can safely say that also gets soulless and depressing.

Having goals, short and long term plans, routines, and things like that are pretty important to sustaining good mental health, so just not having to do anything could be pretty disastrous.

In areas where there's high unemployment, they're not all 'happy and unstressed' - there's actually more crime and discontentment.

But, I agree that relentlessly working in a life of drudgery is also pretty destructive - we need a balance of work and leisure, imo.

 

[mitchymo]

I know what you mean, but there needs to be a work-life balance.

Practically impossible to achieve without a disposable income tho.

Speaking as someone who has been out of work for long periods, I can safely say that also gets soulless and depressing.

Because there is no money to do anything with.

Having goals, short and long term plans, routines, and things like that are pretty important to sustaining good mental health, so just not having to do anything could be pretty disastrous.

Agree unless that is a person's desire, if laziness makes someone happy then they're not gonna complain

In areas where there's high unemployment, they're not all 'happy and unstressed' - there's actually more crime and discontentment.

Again, this is because of money

But, I agree that relentlessly working in a life of drudgery is also pretty destructive - we need a balance of work and leisure, imo.

I have a vision for a better way of life, clouded by the dogma of the present and the visions of the past it is hard for others to see where i'm coming from but there are some who do. Slowly life is heading in a more prosperous direction, the speed depends entirely on how firm a grip that megalomaniacs have on power.

 

[witch]

Peace and compassion for your fellow human beings and caring for this old ball of dirt we call Earth would be a good start.

As for goals (other then keeping body and soul alive), I have many, create a beautiful moon garden, learn a language, see the sun set from a tropical island, meet Professor Stephen Hawking to name a few.

 

[mitchymo]

Peace and compassion for your fellow human beings and caring for this old ball of dirt we call Earth would be a good start.

As for goals (other then keeping body and soul alive), I have many, create a beautiful moon garden, learn a language, see the sun set from a tropical island, meet Professor Stephen Hawking to name a few.

With your wisdom you should really have a higher post count ya know :smile:

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

I agree. That would be a boring existence. If you don't produce anything, if you are just given everything you consume, you would not put much value on anything.

If the people didnt create anything, then who would give it to them?
There would be work, and things to produce, but difference is things would be produced for need.

If instead of sacking people to save cash, we employed people to give them a job, we would all be working less as their would be more workforce. It would give us more time to pursue our passions, and the world would be a more beautiful place.

I think Mitchy's idea of the future is one i could very much see myself enjoying.

A world wthout money would be a very good world at all.

 

[mitchymo]

If the people didnt create anything, then who would give it to them?
There would be work, and things to produce, but difference is things would be produced for need.

If instead of sacking people to save cash, we employed people to give them a job, we would all be working less as their would be more workforce. It would give us more time to pursue our passions, and the world would be a more beautiful place.

I think Mitchy's idea of the future is one i could very much see myself enjoying.

A world wthout money would be a very good world at all.

The vision is based on a resource economy and is promoted by the Zeitgeist movement and Venus project. The zeitgeist movies which can be found easily enough online are pretty provocative and about an hour long each. I've watched them all. The esoteric agenda is one of the titles and zeitgeist addendum is another.
They pull some stuff together and are quite conspiracist in some of what they say but i had fun watching, they're inspirational to watch.

 

[Ric1]

I envision cheesecake for all

 

[mitchymo]

I envision cheesecake for all

pmsl, i could go along with that.

 

[witch]

With your wisdom you should really have a higher post count ya know :smile:

Thank you …………… I’m an old Witch, so have watched the whole World change before my eyes, some for the good and some not. All I can truly say to those younger is not to despair and not to be afraid of stepping up to push forward what you think is important.

I was one of those Hippy chicks who marched in the “60s” and I think we tried to make the World a better place.

While today’s World is not perfect it still fills me with awe and delight.


:smile: now did someone say cheesecake, fork in hand

 

[Ric1]

would a classic vallina go down well?

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

I agree. That would be a boring existence. If you don't produce anything, if you are just given everything you consume, you would not put much value on anything.

The point is you could produce anything you wanted, you would do so entirely by choice and to satisfy your own desire for achievement and not to satisfy the greed and ambition of people who make more money than you and do less work than you do. All "work" would become leisure rather than obligation. Think of all the things you've wanted to do but have never had the time because of the need to pay bills and satisfy obligations to bosses, taxmen, banks etc Wouldn't you like the freedom to just do all those things you've been putting off? In this Utopia that would be possible, though whether or not the Utopia itself is possible I can't say. :wink:

 

[witch]

would a classic vallina go down well?

for a start, then "Raisin rum”, followed by double death-by-chocolate ………. Oh don’t forget the classic New York :tongue:

 

[maxcok]

The problem I see with utopian visions of the future comes down to human nature. They presume that everybody will be on the same page, be willing to share equally and achieve the same level of enlightenment. Human history and human nature say otherwise.

Even when there is more than enough to go around, there are, and I fear always will be, those who operate through competition and greed - be it lust for power or lust for material things - be it a larger pile of coconuts, a bigger house, a fatter stock portfolio, hotter better sex and romance, a need to control the game, be "the Decider", etc. It is the concentration of money power and resources in the hands of a few that forces everyone else to work harder to support them, and just to keep even. How do you propose to pry the money and power from their greedy grubby little hands, when they are the ones profiting from the labor of workers, the spending of consumers - and ultimately controlling the game?

I know people who live in cooperative communites and share the work, share the resources, share in consensus decision making. Though there is much more harmony than one sees in the wider world, still there are power politics, sexual politics, jealousies and petty grievances on some level. I believe that greed (based in fear) is the bane of human existence. It would be lovely to transcend all of that, but frankly, unless you can change human nature, how is it possible?

 

[798686]

Money is partly it, Mitchy, I agree - but jobs also give a sense of purpose and security, and help define who we are.

I don't think it's ever going to be possible to do away with money - because it's just a form of trading where we swap what we have, for things we need; no way there's ever going to be enough food and resources to get to the point where no-one has to do anything.

Plus...who grows the food, builds houses - keeps the place clean, etc?? There's also the matter of educating people, which has to be done.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Money is partly it, Mitchy, I agree - but jobs also give a sense of purpose and security, and help define who we are.

I don't think it's ever going to be possible to do away with money - because it's just a form of trading where we swap what we have, for things we need; no way there's ever going to be enough food and resources to get to the point where no-one has to do anything.

Plus...who grows the food, builds houses - keeps the place clean, etc?? There's also the matter of educating people, which has to be done.

Money is only a fairly recent invention you know Joll, there were hundreds of thousands of years of human history without it. The Chinese used Cowrie shells as early as 1200 BC or so but the first real coinage was invented in Lydia (modern south western Turkey) in the 7th century BC I believe. So relatively novel really.

As to the building and such I suppose Mitchy's robots will be doing all that. :wink:

 

[FRE]

...working 10hrs a week max unless you want to work more
...free accomodation
...no taxes
...no money (won't need it)
...free basic food
...credit based system for buying stuff not linked to monetary value
...no nuclear power, all thermo-nuclear
...no party politics
...no class beyond working class
...computers and robots doing most of the work
...peace on earth (unless aliens arrive and are hostile)

Don't ridicule me, this IS going to happen, eventually. :fing26:

Check out this web site for liquid thorium reactors. I'm convinced that it's the way to go, and I've spend considerable time studying energy sources and issues.

The Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor

 

[798686]

I don't know why...but this thread irrationally annoys me.
I think, if something seems obviously unworkable to me, and completely fanciful, I assume everyone else should see it too.

People had those same utopian ideas in the 50s, and they turned into dystopian nightmares. Le Corbusier et al, forgot important basic human needs...like feeling needed and productive, not being isolated, having a useful part to play in society, plus the fact that doing menial, routine stuff can actually build a sense of security.

People found that removing small responsibilites and passing them to robots left certain sections of society with no jobs that were suited to them. Also, whole communities lost employment when UK industry hit the skids in the 70s and 80s. Yes, they had less money - but they had some from benefits, but crime rocketed, and mental illness and discontent abounded, for all sorts of reasons.

I think we underestimate basic, down to earth things at our peril - even growing food/tilling the earth can be immensely satisfying (altho, not if you have to do it dawn till dusk for a pittance).

I'm sure I'm going over the top about this - and I realise the relentless treadmill of daily life can crush ppls dreams and aspirations (long-haul lorry driving is a prime example - the impossible deadlines, gruelling hours, and onerous safety restrictions take any fun whatsoever out of it). Maybe we just need to strike the right balance?

I'm turning into one of the site grumps, bah. *stomps off*

 

[Bbucko]

...no class beyond working class
...computers and robots doing most of the work

Maybe "working class" means something different in the UK than it does here in the US, but I'd hardly call it the most educated, socially-progressive and spiritually honest group of people. They are generally those least inclined to value intellectualism or creative endeavors as worthy ways to spend one's time.

My experience shows working class stiffs to be clannish, xenophobic, suspicious and intolerant to social and cultural evolutions. They are quick to find threats, especially from things about with they have only the most rudimentary knowledge or experience (if any at all). I'm really unclear as to why you would choose such a demographic to be the one that survives whatever social apocalypse which would bring down to extinction the middle and upper classes (the aristocracy, on the other hand, is much easier for me to get my brain around).

And finally: how could there exist a working class when there's no actual work to be done?

PS: Otherwise, I'd agree that your other points have merit as a Utopian dream. If only I were still capable of utopian sentiments...:redface:

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

I don't know why...but this thread irrationally annoys me.
I think, if something seems obviously unworkable to me, and completely fanciful, I assume everyone else should see it too.

People had those same utopian ideas in the 50s, and they turned into dystopian nightmares. Le Corbusier et al, forgot important basic human needs...like feeling needed and productive, not being isolated, having a useful part to play in society, plus the fact that doing menial, routine stuff can actually build a sense of security.

People found that removing small responsibilites and passing them to robots left certain sections of society with no jobs that were suited to them. Also, whole communities lost employment when UK industry hit the skids in the 70s and 80s. Yes, they had less money - but they had some from benefits, but crime rocketed, and mental illness and discontent abounded, for all sorts of reasons.

I think we underestimate basic, down to earth things at our peril - even growing food/tilling the earth can be immensely satisfying (altho, not if you have to do it dawn till dusk for a pittance).

I'm sure I'm going over the top about this - and I realise the relentless treadmill of daily life can crush ppls dreams and aspirations (long-haul lorry driving is a prime example - the impossible deadlines, gruelling hours, and onerous safety restrictions take any fun whatsoever out of it). Maybe we just need to strike the right balance?

I'm turning into one of the site grumps, bah. *stomps off*

Maybe "working class" means something different in the UK than it does here in the US, but I'd hardly call it the most educated, socially-progressive and spiritually honest group of people. They are generally those least inclined to value intellectualism or creative endeavors as worthy ways to spend one's time.

My experience shows working class stiffs to be clannish, xenophobic, suspicious and intolerant to social and cultural evolutions. They are quick to find threats, especially from things about with they have only the most rudimentary knowledge or experience (if any at all). I'm really unclear as to why you would choose such a demographic to be the one that survives whatever social apocalypse which would bring down to extinction the middle and upper classes (the aristocracy, on the other hand, is much easier for me to get my brain around).

And finally: how could there exist a working class when there's no actual work to be done?

PS: Otherwise, I'd agree that your other points have merit as a Utopian dream. If only I were still capable of utopian sentiments...:redface:

I think we should start a cynics group boys :wink: We can all sit around smoking cigars and shaking our heads in disbelief at the silly idealism of others. :tongue:

 

[Bbucko]

I think we should start a cynics group boys :wink: We can all sit around smoking cigars and shaking our heads in disbelief at the silly idealism of others. :tongue:

I'm totally up for that. Where do I sign up?