In the future i envisage....way, way in the future...

[mitchymo]

Oops, yes you did. :redface: Sorry.

Apology accepted. (a ticket to Oslo would go even further! :biggrin1

 

[Pendlum]

Because you are promising everyone the basics they need, and more if they work (and who wouldn't if it was so easy?) But there is no way you can provide that. People would fucking riot in an instant. People will just start taking what they need from the people who did get it. You would need a serious trimming of the population or a revolution in resource production.

And what about law and order? Being a lawyer isn't a job you can only do a few hours a day. And not anyone can be a lawyer, even if a lot of people want to be one. And if you can choose what you want to do, sectors will fall. Who in their right mind would want to do waste disposal? You probably want machines to handle that, but I think you underestimate the human component. Machines, and computers, are very stupid. So even if it is controlling a machine, why would I want to scrape shit off of tunnels or pick up garbage even if it involves just telling a machine to when I can apparently be an astronaut instead? Or a pilot, or all the other much cooler jobs. Or why would I want to be a grocery clerk?

Speaking of resources, running and producing all of these machines you want to replace people would use shittons of resources and energy. That is several thousands of shitpounds by the way.

 

[mitchymo]

Because you are promising everyone the basics they need, and more if they work (and who wouldn't if it was so easy?) But there is no way you can provide that. People would fucking riot in an instant. People will just start taking what they need from the people who did get it. You would need a serious trimming of the population or a revolution in resource production.

And what about law and order? Being a lawyer isn't a job you can only do a few hours a day. And not anyone can be a lawyer, even if a lot of people want to be one. And if you can choose what you want to do, sectors will fall. Who in their right mind would want to do waste disposal? You probably want machines to handle that, but I think you underestimate the human component. Machines, and computers, are very stupid. So even if it is controlling a machine, why would I want to scrape shit off of tunnels or pick up garbage even if it involves just telling a machine to when I can apparently be an astronaut instead? Or a pilot, or all the other much cooler jobs. Or why would I want to be a grocery clerk?

Speaking of resources, running and producing all of these machines you want to replace people would use shittons of resources and energy. That is several thousands of shitpounds by the way.

Energy is not a problem, we live on a great ball of self replenishing energy called the earths core, this is why geothermal energy projects are being worked on in at least 14 developed nations. To add to that we have all the resources of natural energy from solar, wind and wave.
Machines would do the work we really did'nt want to do.
Lawyers? Why would we need lawyers if there was very little crime and sophisticated enough technology to ascertain a defendants guilt.

All my counter arguments are based on development over what could be centuries from now, step by little step the world will change into something uncomparable to today and i reckon my vision is highly probable.

 

[798686]

Apology accepted. (a ticket to Oslo would go even further! :biggrin1

It would go as far as Oslo. :wink:

 

[mitchymo]

It would go as far as Oslo. :wink:

oh but Joll, it would take ME to heaven! :biggrin1:

 

[798686]

oh but Joll, it would take ME to heaven! :biggrin1:

LOL! That's true. :wink:

Can I have one in the opposite direction, away from the EU? :biggrin1:

 

[Pendlum]

I wouldn't want to live in a world where my guilt or innocence is left up to a machine.

I'm curious which nations are working on it.

 

[mitchymo]

LOL! That's true. :wink:

Can I have one in the opposite direction, away from the EU? :biggrin1:

Haha, nope, i think it would be good to represent a broader spectrum of the UK when i visit Oslo so i think you should come with me and wave the first welsh flag. :biggrin1:

I wouldn't want to live in a world where my guilt or innocence is left up to a machine.

I'm curious which nations are working on it.

Its not the machine that decides, the machine gives results like a breathaliser tells if someone is over the limit. Humans would interpret the results.

The countries working on geothermal energy include the US, Canada, UK, Australia, France, Germany, Iceland and Switzerland to name a few although the swiss have had to suspend their programme because it started causing earthquakes.

 

[Pendlum]

Its not the machine that decides, the machine gives results like a breathaliser tells if someone is over the limit. Humans would interpret the results.

Ice cream causes positive alcohol test - UPI.com

 

[mitchymo]

Ice cream causes positive alcohol test - UPI.com

And according to the article it was reasoned that the machine was wrong which proves that already we are using machines to help judge, no lawyer needed.

 

[Pendlum]

Without that judge (note that judges are former lawyers), he would've been shit out of luck.

 

[Bbucko]

When i used the term working class, i meant it literally to define those who work and those who do not. The 'class' that exists in the world today only exists because of inequality. The attitude of the bad asses would likely improve and that of the snobs would mellow in a world where class is irrelevant. And there would still be work to do just not so much. Look at how many people are doing jobs in the service industry nowadays because machines do most of the work in manufacturing and when that sector was most popular it was because jobs in agriculture were replaced by machines. What happens in the future when cashiers are replaced by automated machines? when security guards replaced with sophisticated security systems? when post is all sent online? Humanity cannot sustain a balance between working like we do and advancing our technology.

The minor points first:

1) We already have self-serve checkout here in a variety of establishments like grocery stores and home-improvement centers, where one clerk can monitor/assist at up to six or eight registers. The customer scans each item, bags it, then pays the machine what is owed, either with a cash/credit card or cash. Though I dislike using them, they are a time saver (provided nothing goes wrong).

2) Likewise security staffing has been vastly curtailed over the last twenty years or so, between security cameras and infrared trip-wires, with one person doing the work having previously been done by half a dozen (or more). As technology like retina and palm recognition sensors become more and more ubiquitous, this could well eliminate even more security jobs,which I see as a decidedly mixed blessing.

BTW: in our post-9/11 world, this has actually accelerated as fewer and fewer points of egress are even available. Most large buildings now only have one main entrance/exit through everyone must pass.

~~~~~~~~~~

I still take pains to differentiate between everyone being working class and utopian visions of a classless society, in part because I believe that a completely classless society would not be able to function.

No one detests hierarchical stratification more than I. It's one of the many reason why I refer to myself as an Anarchist. I have a deep and abiding distrust for authority of any kind, as it's so rarely rewarded based on knowledge or merit instead of political machinations, popularity contests and nepotism. And I loathe the arbitrary exercise of authority to the very bottom of my being.

Yet even I recognize the need for leaders and authorities in order to prevent utter chaos from ensuing, as it inevitably would without order, and mobs are chaotic disorder. One needs arbiters in settling disputes between collectivities, and such people would need to wield authority. It's also gotta be said that, whether by dint of intellect or emotional stability (in a strictly merit-based utopia), such authorities would fill a higher niche in the hierarchy than the general population.

 

[mitchymo]

Without that judge (note that judges are former lawyers), he would've been shit out of luck.

The minor points first:

1) We already have self-serve checkout here in a variety of establishments like grocery stores and home-improvement centers, where one clerk can monitor/assist at up to six or eight registers. The customer scans each item, bags it, then pays the machine what is owed, either with a cash/credit card or cash. Though I dislike using them, they are a time saver (provided nothing goes wrong).

2) Likewise security staffing has been vastly curtailed over the last twenty years or so, between security cameras and infrared trip-wires, with one person doing the work having previously been done by half a dozen (or more). As technology like retina and palm recognition sensors become more and more ubiquitous, this could well eliminate even more security jobs,which I see as a decidedly mixed blessing.

BTW: in our post-9/11 world, this has actually accelerated as fewer and fewer points of egress are even available. Most large buildings now only have one main entrance/exit through everyone must pass.

~~~~~~~~~~

I still take pains to differentiate between everyone being working class and utopian visions of a classless society, in part because I believe that a completely classless society would not be able to function.

No one detests hierarchical stratification more than I. It's one of the many reason why I refer to myself as an Anarchist. I have a deep and abiding distrust for authority of any kind, as it's so rarely rewarded based on knowledge or merit instead of political machinations, popularity contests and nepotism. And I loathe the arbitrary exercise of authority to the very bottom of my being.

Yet even I recognize the need for leaders and authorities in order to prevent utter chaos from ensuing, as it inevitably would without order, and mobs are chaotic disorder. One needs arbiters in settling disputes between collectivities, and such people would need to wield authority. It's also gotta be said that, whether by dint of intellect or emotional stability (in a strictly merit-based utopia), such authorities would fill a higher niche in the hierarchy than the general population.

I did'nt say there would'nt be a government in the utopia. Its just by the time humanity arrives at this point there will be very little to do for government except chair debates where everyone will have a say on everything. The people would be the judges. The people would vote on everything without government being able to do anything other than be the peoples representative