Infidelity

[DC_DEEP]

Mr. Hazelgod, one of the challenges of growing up is accepting the fact that you can't always be right. I'm kind of pitying your wife at this point.

You would do well to take your own advice on this one...

After having sex with a new partner, I don't ask, "Is this a closed relationship or an open one?" I'm not a swinger. By the time I have sex with him, which isn't on the first few dates, we already know what kind of person the other is.

Sex with a new partner? That implies that you have had sex with more than one person in your life, and also implies that you have had sex with someone to whom you were not married. You know, some people consider that to be just plain, flat-out wrong. Do you?

Oh, and addressed to all: monogamy and infidelity are NOT antonyms; fidelity and monogamy are NOT synonyms. There may be some overlap, but the terms are NOT interchangeable.

 

[B_becominghorse]

I don't even know why you'd discuss a serious subject with the OP person, dragonfly She spent two hours in the chatroom last night talking about how she fucked her parents' business partners to piss them off and has a trust fund. Her brilliant redneck Hazelgod backs her up on everything, and they are now on all of my fragrant Ignore functions, with their stored-up stupidities to be exhumed by ET's from the future....I mean, it's a little like getting couples counseling from Britney....

 

[HazelGod]

Oh, and addressed to all: monogamy and infidelity are NOT antonyms; fidelity and monogamy are NOT synonyms. There may be some overlap, but the terms are NOT interchangeable.

Very wise observation, DC...thank you for pointing this out.

 

[D_Adoniah Sheervolume]

Phil Ayesho: you SO turn me on with your empathetic, well-thought-out, honest posts. i would consider myself so lucky to have someone as you for a partner!

How does one define cheating?

I cheated on my second husband. <snip>

None of this would've taken place had we talked about our expectations. I wish we had, it would've saved us both a lot of pain. I grow weary of reading how there are no grey areas in cheating and that you "just know" if you're cheating. I'm convinced that cheating is a form of lying. Lying can be prevented if you insist upon total honesty and open communication about your expectations in a relationship. We behaved irresponsibly by not discussing ours and had we done so early on, I doubt we would've married.

I regret how I handled the situation. I should've packed my stuff and walked out instead of retaliating in poor fashion. I'm fortunate that my partner believes i've risen above my past and am doing everything in my power to be a better person every day-he trusts me absolute. I love him for that.

Relationships give us the opportunity to grow as individuals. We either take that opportunity seriously or we waste it.

wow. what an incredible woman!

I admit that in the past I have had sex with married men.
I don't feel guilty about it.
Why?
Because I was single, I wasn't the one who cheated.
The guilt wasn't mine to bear.
How he justified the contact or the fall out was his issue.

hmmm. just a question: if you were married, and your husband was wearing his wedding ring, would you prefer others to respect what that ring generally represents?

i don't play with people in relationships, UNLESS, either: 1) all parties are involved; or 2) we've all met, discussed the situation and know what's up.

I would go beyond this to note that, if it is discussed and agreed to as acceptable within the confines of the relationship, that sex with people other than your partner is not infidelity/adultery/cheating. Having permission to do things openly eliminates the aspect of deception and wrongness.

<snip>
**Thanks to Freddie53 for sharing this with me YEARS ago.

here here! who are we to judge the relationships of others?

 

[AlteredEgo]

I think a lot of people feel burdened by monogamy. It seems to me that a lot of people feel as though monogamy if a type of imprisonment. I think those people are destined to stray from their monogamous relationships. Why wouldn't they? They want their loved one, but not monogamy.

I on the other hand feel freed by monogamy. I feel safe, secure, loved, respected and far more intimate within a monogamous relationship. I have seen committed relationships which are not monogamous, and they seem to work well. However, I would feel insecure, trapped, nervous and unhappy in that situation. It's just not for me.

I don't think I could cheat. But if I did, it would be because I sensed that my partner was silently changing the rules of our relationship on me. I don't know if I'd be brave enough to discuss it, and make these changes out loud, but I hope I would. I never want to feel I have to lie.

 

[Jovial]

Or maybe you're just another bleating ewe that's surrounded herself in a herd of like-minded (mindless) sheep.

How can you can compare her to a sheep? Many people here are taking the opposite view of her, but she still is willing to stand her ground. Hardly sheep like behavior to me.

 

[HazelGod]

How can you can compare her to a sheep? Many people here are taking the opposite view of her, but she still is willing to stand her ground. Hardly sheep like behavior to me.

You might want to go back and re-read the quoted part of her post to which I was responding.

 

[TurkeyWithaSunburn]

OK back to the original posters question.

Why would you cheat on someone?

Infidelity is cheating. Doing something emotionally and/or sexually involved without the knowledge or consent of a person/s who you have a bond of understanding as to what is expected sexually/emotionally.

Oh, and addressed to all: monogamy and infidelity are NOT antonyms; fidelity and monogamy are NOT synonyms. There may be some overlap, but the terms are NOT interchangeable.

Thanks!:biggrin1: for pointing this out to all the people who don't know English! No sarcasm in that statement just wish people would think about words before they use them. Be good if people could understand words before spouting off about them.

From Wikipedia (not authorative but usually spot on)
Not linked so you'll have to go put it into wiki if u really want more info
Fidelity is a notion that at its most abstract level implies a truthful connection to a source or sources. Its original meaning dealt with loyalty and attentiveness to one's duty to a lord or a king, in a broader sense than the related concept of fealty. Both derive from the Latin word fidelitas, meaning "faithfulness."
In modern human relationships, the term can refer to sexual monogamy. In western culture this often means adherence to marriage vows, or of promises of exclusivity or monogamy, and an absence of adultery. However, some people do not equate fidelity in personal relationships with sexual or emotional monogamy. (For example, see polyamory and Open marriage.)

 

[Jovial]

You might want to go back and re-read the quoted part of her post to which I was responding.

I did read the part that you quoted before I responded. Whether her friends agree with her or not, she is standing her ground here when most people disagree with her. So in my opinion she is not a sheep. I give her credit for listening to other people's viewpoints and maybe she will change her stance because of it.

 

[HazelGod]

I did read the part that you quoted before I responded. Whether her friends agree with her or not, she is standing her ground here when most people disagree with her. So in my opinion she is not a sheep. I give her credit for listening to other people's viewpoints and maybe she will change her stance because of it.

OK, I'll spell it out:

She held up as evidence of her position a claim that a bunch of people to whom she posed the scenario were all in agreement with her.

My point was to dispute the evidentiary validity of this claim due to the questionable biases of the sample being indicated. That the choir would agree with a preacher is neither surprising nor in any way indicative of how the message is received beyond the congregation.

I haven't seen much evidence of her willingness to listen to others' viewpoints...what I have seen are constant projections of her piety onto all of society, and repeated judgments of others' statements, bolstered by appeals to the majority such as this one to ostensibly reinforce the validity of her morality.

The fact that she's been unable to cease the proselytizing after it's been repeatedly stated that the intended purpose here was a discussion of why infidelity takes place, not the morality of such, actually demonstrates a rather stubborn unwillingness to listen to differing viewpoints.

 

[marleyisalegend]

jovial dont even bother, hazel is a dictionary toting narcissist who enjoys countless hours vomiting up big words about how everything everybody posts is wrong and stupid

 

[AlteredEgo]

Why are we arguing about who is the biggest fuckwad? I believe the question is why are some people unfaithful. Let's discuss that and related things.

 

[marleyisalegend]

i think unfaithfulness stems from the fact that human beings are ultimately self-serving, wanting our cake and eating it too. we want a committed relationship, someone to share our lives with and spend a lifetime praising us, but we also wanna see what else is out there and experience different tastes. i think a co-worker summed up what i'm trying to say better, one day i was joking with her about her upcoming marriage to a great guy and told her that he was way out of her league (we were good friends and often joked like this with each other, she took no offense). anyway i joked that he deserved better than her and if she really loved him she should leave him and let him find someone he deserves. her response represents MOST men she said
"i do love him, but i love myself more".
if this joke were taken seriously it would imply that, yes she loves this man and knows he deserves better but her own happiness is more important. i think i got my point across

 

[AlteredEgo]

i think unfaithfulness stems from the fact that human beings are ultimately self-serving, wanting our cake and eating it too. we want a committed relationship, someone to share our lives with and spend a lifetime praising us, but we also wanna see what else is out there and experience different tastes. i think a co-worker summed up what i'm trying to say better, one day i was joking with her about her upcoming marriage to a great guy and told her that he was way out of her league (we were good friends and often joked like this with each other, she took no offense). anyway i joked that he deserved better than her and if she really loved him she should leave him and let him find someone he deserves. her response represents MOST men she said
"i do love him, but i love myself more".
if this joke were taken seriously it would imply that, yes she loves this man and knows he deserves better but her own happiness is more important. i think i got my point across

I agree. I would add to this that most of the time, people who cheat also think they are going to be able to get away with it, and that no one will be hurt. That's what I think, anyway.

 

[Principessa]

*SNIP* The fact that she's been unable to cease the proselytizing after it's been repeatedly stated that the intended purpose here was a discussion of why infidelity takes place, not the morality of such, actually demonstrates a rather stubborn unwillingness to listen to differing viewpoints.

IMHO it is well nigh to impossible to discuss why infidelity occurs without discussing the morality of such at the same time. The truth and everbody knows this, is that infidelity is immoral.

Infidelity is a breach of faith and occurs in a number of contexts (e.g., in religious contexts). Also called cheating: 'any violation of the mutually agreed-upon rules or boundaries of a relationship'. What constitutes an act of infidelity varies between and within cultures. It does not depend on the presence of sexual behaviour. Even within a close relationship, people might have very different ideas and perceptions of infidelity: see Blumstein. ​

Would you cheat on a spouse/partner/LTR? What are the circumstances that would made it happen?If you have, how did you justify the contact?

It seems to me the crux of your post is justifying infidelity.
I have a few friends who have cheated on their mates due to alienation of affections or having lost a physical desire to be with that person for whatever reason. They knew at the time that they were wrong by having a physical and emotional affair. In the end they regretted it and the irreparable damage it did to their relationships.

Some people have 'open marriages' or 'open relationships' it is my understanding that in this type of arrangement infidelity is a given and therefore not something which one needs to discuss or ponder. If you are the person who has been cheated on there is nothing anyone can say that will justify that persons actions. If you are the person who went outside of the relationship for sex you will most likely never believe you were wrong in your actions.

Doubt Means Don't ~ Oprah Winfrey​

 

[Phil Ayesho]

I don't think it's so black and white. One partner can't expect the other to change everything they do, but he/she shouldn't just completely accept how the other partner does things either. Sure, we shouldn't require our partner to change all these trivial things. But we could come up with examples that are progressively less trivial. If one partner was willing to change the way they do things for their partner, but the other partner didn't want to change at all, then it's disrespectful and that leads to resentment. In practice, one should pick the things that are most important and try to change them and just accept the less trivial things

Oh... I never mean to seem black and white...

Certainly... if I love another person and that person is aggravated by some trait of mine I will, if possible, strive to change that behavoir...

But its all STILL a negotiation.

Some things I simply can not change. I apparently make an odd little noise when I sleep... not snoring... but a noise...
My Wife doesnlt like it... but neither does she blame me for something I have no conscious volition over.


By the same token... If she wants me to change something I CAN change... I have to determine whether it is something I am willing to compromise on, or not.

It does a marriage no good to compromise on something of yourself for your partner... and then to resent that compromise the rest of your life...

I have to determine if it is something I can TRULY let go of without a backwards glance. Something I can give up, or something I can endeavor to do happily.


And, inevitably, there will be things that are crucial to the core of yourself... things I am unwilling to compromise.... in which case she will have to determine where she can bend to meet your needs.

That is all absolutely part of the process...


But where folks go wrong is in imagining that leaving the cap off the toothpaste is anything other than an oversight.

Women's brains are different... they are NEVER quiet inside their head... they are always thinking always evaluating...
As a result, the most common thing in the world for a woman is to think that a man leaving the cap off the toothpaste, or leaving the seat up, or forgetting to replace the roll of toilet paper... that these are things the man is doing ON PURPOSE to send her a message of not caring about her feelings... of intentionally doing things the man knows will upset her...


As men, we know that nothing could be further from the truth...

I tried to explain to my woman that, eventually, I will learn to put the seat down... 99&#37; of the time... but that when I leave it up... it will NOT be because I am rebelling against her wishes... and when I leave it down , it will NOT be because I am thinking of HER needs.

That, either way... up or down... it will be something I have trained myself to do unthinkingly... as habit.

That men simply are single minded, and I am usually thinking of something else.

Yes, in fact, I CAN step OVER a bag of garbage and be totally unaware that its a bag of garbage and totally unaware that today is garbage day.


Women tend to invest everything with far more nuance and meaning, because women's brains nuance everything with hidden meaning.


But they make a mistake to assume that Men's communications are similarly nuanced.

They aren't.

Ever notice how often you're in trouble with a woman for saying something you thought was pretty simple and clearly stated?

Its because they assume you think the way they do.... that there are hidden meanings, subtle communications in every gesture and word and action.

Taking the wrong shit the wrong way is the crux of how people lose regard for each other.
Imagining that others think and react and feel the same as you ... assigning negative motivations to the actions of others...

These are the baby steps that lead to a couple drifting miles apart.




When it comes right down to it... who the fuck cares about a wet towel...
a capless toothpaste tube....

How absolutely inconsequential can something be... over which someone will allow themselves to think less of their lover?

How does a wet towel compare in significance to the warmth of their embrace on a cool night?



We will all be dead soon enough... and lastingly so.


How can any toilet seat or toothpaste cap possibly be worth feeling resentment toward the person you share this brief existence with?
What difference will it make in 5 year's time? In 50?

Every hundred years... all new people.


You want to know what REAL romance is?

Real romance is tossing the champagne glasses in the fireplace. Staining the couch and not caring...

Real romance is not letting ANY small material consideration into the space between you and another human being.


Real romance is to love with abandon.

 

[Ethyl]

Why would you cheat on someone?

Infidelity is cheating. Doing something emotionally and/or sexually involved without the knowledge or consent of a person/s who you have a bond of understanding as to what is expected sexually/emotionally.
.

That's exactly it. Cheating is not about sexual contact with another person other than your SO, it's about the deception involved and the damage to the trust between two people. I wish more people would get this.

 

[marleyisalegend]

i was in a relationship one time where i was cheated on, to me what made me the most upset was that it put my life at risk by possibly exposing me to std's. fortunately i didn't catch anything before he confessed to the affair, but i'm surprised noone has mentioned how many stds are spread through infidelity. people wearing condoms usually don't spread std's (in some cases) so that means the people spreading/contracting them are people not using condoms which is practiced largely in "monogomous" couples. trust is relative to me, but putting my life in danger like that is liable to get you cut

 

[Ms.Teacher]

hazel is a dictionary toting narcissist who enjoys countless hours vomiting up big words about how everything everybody posts is wrong and stupid

Thank you, Marley. I thought I was the only one who was getting that vibe.

And here are some definitions I posted in another thread to clarify some of the words we're using:

http://www.lpsg.org/1398144-post68.html

 

[HazelGod]

IMHO it is well nigh to impossible to discuss why infidelity occurs without discussing the morality of such at the same time. The truth and everbody knows this, is that infidelity is immoral.

No, it's not impossible. You just keep to yourself any value judgments that don't bear on the causal factors.

The only truth is that morality, and by association immorality, is entirely subjective. There is no such thing as a categorical imperative with respect to human morals...so to assert not only that one does exist, but that everyone agrees to its particulars is the height of foolishness.

It seems to me the crux of your post is justifying infidelity.

Actually, there were three interrelated questions that were posed. Weighting any one more heavily than another is your own bias being projected.

Furthermore, she was asking those who had been unfaithful to elaborate on how they personally justified it against their own morality. As you've stated that you haven't ever done so, not only can you not answer this question as posed, but you have absolutely no ground on which to judge anyone who has.

If you are the person who has been cheated on there is nothing anyone can say that will justify that persons actions. If you are the person who went outside of the relationship for sex you will most likely never believe you were wrong in your actions.

Again with the inappropriate categoricals. You're free to believe whatever you like, but you have neither basis nor authority to assert these notions as being true for anyone other than yourself.

There are plenty of couples whose relationships have survived infidelity, through both persons' willingness to understand the reasons why it occurred. There are also plenty that do not survive, largely because one or both people took your inflexible approach to dealing with it. There are plenty instances never discovered where the unfaithful party does feel remorse for their actions...just as there are plenty whose conscience never pay it a second thought.

The only inarguable fact here is that infidelity occurs...frequently. The OP was soliciting the thoughts and opinions of individuals with regard to this fact as it affects them personally, not asking for people to chime in with their pious prejudices of how everyone should act and feel.