Influential gay men

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by B_henry miller, Mar 26, 2011.

  1. B_henry miller

    B_henry miller New Member

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    I recently took a sociology of gender class which I found very depressing. The professor discussed the fact that women on average make about 2/3 of the salary that men do, and gay men are somewhere in the same bracket with women -- and perhaps lower than women.

    I didn't argue, because I didn't want my grade to suffer. But I had always thought it was sort of the opposite. I thought that gay men on average make more money than everyone else, in part because gay men on average have a higher education level than straight men, and gay men on average do not have children they have to support. I don't mean to endorse a stereotype. I know there are gay men who are married to other gay men and who adopt. But, given that gay marriage is legal in only a handful of states and countries throughout the world, and given that gay adoption is still relatively controversial in this country, I'd say that most gay men fall into what I describe here. Most gay men are not married and do not have children.

    Anyway, all I'm looking for is a pick-me-up here. I am sickened by the image of gay men as socially marginalized. My understanding had been that gay men, though they suffer discrimination early in life, often persevere and follow through in the end to have success. The class I took should've been referred to as a sociology of the female gender, because it focused mainly on woman -- and it harped on the idea of women as victims. It was a bit of work on my part to even get gay men mentioned in this class.

    So, do others have thoughts on this? Please list/discuss how gay men are successful in life, okay? It would make me feel good about now. :biggrin1:
     
  2. nolapeaches1

    nolapeaches1 Member

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    As a successful gay man, I do not understand where your professor has gotten this information, nor do I see any sound statistics anywhere that support this theory. By and large, I believe that gay men have more dispensable income than our heterosexual counterparts because of the fact that, in general, we do not have families-and face it, children are expensive. Perhaps this is the misconception: we have more dispensable income, therefore it appears that we earn more? But perhaps we can completely discount the entire discussion as it is obvious by your statement that it took a bit of work on your part to even get gay men mentioned in this class, where the focus is on "victimized" females, and not on gay men at all. This professor probably chooses to marginalize gays as wreckless, self-indulgent, morally bankrupt sex addicts without souls that couldn't possibly be successful. Of course, I am only speaking for myself, but what bullshit.

    There are plenty of gay role models to look up to and admire. This year marks the 100th birthday of the most influential playwright that the American Theatre has ever produced, Tennessee Williams. An "out" homosexual man, before "out" was even a term has an impressive umbrella of cherished and important theatrical work that is still heavily produced worldwide, taught in universities and emulated by younger playwrights constantly. His life can (and has been) trivialized by his notorious alcoholism, drug abuse and mental illnesses, but name a single important writer who isn't in those clubs whose work still perseveres and is an example of the finest in the craft? Start with the remarkable life of Tennessee Williams and you will see the light.

    Respectfully,
    Brandon Bergman
    New Orleans, Louisiana
     
  3. B_henry miller

    B_henry miller New Member

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    Thank you for your response. Gives me hope. Another example that has always been important to me is David Geffen: David Geffen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Yes, I figured that the simple fact that most gay men do not have children means that gay men tend to have more money because, as you say, children are expensive.

    About this class, it was called "Sociology of Gender" but should've had "Female" inserted in there, because it amounted to a "Sociology of the Female Gender." So, it wasn't difficult to just get gay men mentioned, but ANY MEN AT ALL! To be fair, the professor did not demonstrate any homophobia and actually seemed very sympathetic when I mentioned the plight of gay men. BUT ... it was an overwhelmingly female class (about 95% of students were female), and it seemed to be viewed as a nuisance in this class to even mention males at all, be they gay or straight. The perspective of the class seemed to be to teach that women are victims of men and society. Women as victims was the focus of the class, and there was a lot of anger toward men, and because I am a relatively masculine person (in-person, gay people are often surprised to find I'm gay; I've actually had bouncers at gay clubs say to me before I enter, "Um, you know this is a gay club, right?), I often felt it necessary to reiterate that the "male privilege" they refer to often only applies to straight males. I'm not saying I didn't learn anything in this class; and I'm not saying the professor was a bigot; she wasn't/isn't. She just had a very pessimistic perspective overall, though. Thanks again!
     
    #3 B_henry miller, Mar 26, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2011
  4. D_Harry_Crax

    D_Harry_Crax Account Disabled

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  5. B_RedDude

    B_RedDude New Member

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    I think you mean disposable income.

     
  6. wallaboi

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    I think the discussion is really about equal pay for equal work and the disparities of pay based on gender, sexuality, race. Statistics about disposable income don't really have much relevance to this topic.

    There is plenty of research that shows that women are paid less than men for doing the same job, but I haven't seen any statistics for straight men v gay men. There may be individual cases where gay men are offered lower salaries, or not given the same level of pay rises based on their sexuality, but I don't really think that it is likely that gay men suffer the same disparity that women historically have.

    I would be more worried about the disparity of pay (in some countries) based on race rather than sexuality.
     
  7. CUBE

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    impaction of gay men. i vote jesus
     
  8. midlifebear

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    CUBE: do you mean that jesus was plugged up?
     
  9. nudeyorker

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    I really need to see some data on what your professor is basing his facts on to tell you the truth. Looking at this from the top it would make some sense if you use the equation that gay men make up 10% of the overall population; in a study it would be obvious that those in the other 90% would exceed their earnings.
    If however the study is conducted on men with similar socioeconomic backgrounds and education and you measure it 100 gay men to 100 straight men working in the same field I think the results might be different. Just speculation on my part but it might make an interesting study for someone to pursue.
    PS I'm sorry to hear that you feared your grade would be jeopardized by challenging your professor; when I was a student you actually got points for that.
     
  10. exwhyzee

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    Where does this statistic come from?

    ...as has been said, children would not impact income, unless fathers raised kids instead of working.

    Being gay doesn't entitle, assure, or challenge you to have any station in life. A gay man can sit at home eating Cheetos and channel surf all day as well as any straight man. Gay successes ranges from David Geffen to Jeffrey Dahmer, and all points in between.

    That should make you feel much better...you can be practically anything you want...though discrimination certainly does exist in many parts of the world (no gay presidents, for example).

    That said...I'd venture to say that being a single person might impact a person's income more than their sexuality...in that someone might be quicker to cut a single person's salary faster than a person "supporting" a wife and kids.
     
  11. B_henry miller

    B_henry miller New Member

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    I have read in many gay publications that, on average, a higher percentage of gay men have college degrees than do straight men. I've also read that women now out number men in universities.
     
  12. B_henry miller

    B_henry miller New Member

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    You obviously went to a better college than me and studied with professors with stronger egos. At the college I'm at, professors are incredibly insecure and petty. You are expected to sit and nod your head and just regurgitate what they say. They have a very low opinion of their students.
     
  13. nudeyorker

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    Again I'm sorry for you and the rest of their students. They picked the wrong profession because they are supposed to be teaching people to think and to challenge concepts and theories and formulate new ones; not just digest information.
     
  14. B_RedDude

    B_RedDude New Member

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    That we know of, anyway.

     
  15. B_henry miller

    B_henry miller New Member

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    By the time I found out the following, it was too late: the college I'm at is notorious for tenuring insecure, petty professors who live to have their egos stroked. They did pick the wrong profession, and so did most others on this campus. It's a campus of professors who shouldn't be professors. At least I'm aware of this. The people I truly feel sorry for are the students who don't know any better, who don't know how out-of-touch this campus is.
     
  16. B_henry miller

    B_henry miller New Member

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    Actually, there IS a gay head of state, or at least a lesbian head of state:
    Jóhanna Sigurðardóttir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And, not to start a debate or anything, but there are constant rumors about Obama. But that's sort of neither here nor there. Sorry.
     
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