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Intrigue

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I take issue with the fact that you think that all rational people MUST know about something that is still scientific THEORY. It will remain a theory indefinitely until it is proven beyond doubt. And as science and quantum theory are still in what some would call its infancy it is ridiculous to state that everyone must agree with this. And just because a person believes in science and theories does not exclude that person from believing in spirituality. My point to you is that you should think more clearly on a subject before posting about it. Those are your views, and as such are not subject to being pushed onto others. Those commuting acts of violence in a deity's name are in my OPINION misguided, but they have the right to believe as they will and this does not in fact make them irrational. (Please do no see this as an attempt to "debunk" you but merely as a plea for reason from me to you) Be well.
 

AlteredEgo

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I do not know of any developed nations that maintain this perverse way of thinking today on the same level as in some areas of the Middle Eastern society.
Dude. This shit happens in the US and Canada. It has been in the news quite a few too many times recently.

I know Pakistan has cosmopolitan cities. And I would like to think a wealthy, politically active, and powerful family would have had been educated to the point were one knows that committing this sort of act is heinous and unacceptable. Obviously not.
They are probably better educated than you and I. Superstition is not always eradicated by education. If it was, my normally rational, brilliant, clear-thinking mother would not have been prone to tossing salt over her shoulder whenever any was spilled. My next door neighbor was an RN with a BS in nursing. She still taught her children not to cut hair outside, and to burn it rather than throw it away because if the birds carried one's hair away it could lead to madness. She was no dummy, and she wasn't someone I would generally think of as ignorant, but she held on to superstitions from the island on which she was born. Her children grew into bright young women, with degrees of their own. One has a master's degree and is employed as a social worker. You don't want to know what acrobatics she can perform to keep from having a black cat cross her path.

And for the most part it still is a backwards region on the whole. Recent protests in the Middle East show that people are longing for a new order. A free society, where all are granted basic human rights. And for you phrasing of 'worldly experience' I believe might be incorrect. Worldly experience means basically being globalized.
Many Americans have never left their home towns. I have only seen four countries: my own, Bermuda, Canada, and England. When I meet Europeans and Asians, they typically have been all over Europe, to parts of Africa, and to parts of Asia outside of their own countries. Granted there are many impoverished peoples in Asia and the middle east who have never been outside of their tiny villages, but those with money travel, and are very likely to have seen much more of the world, in person, than I. I am NOT more worldly than these people. My curiosity and the availability of information has led me to discover a lot about the world, but I have not experienced very much of it in person. Have you?

In America, and for the rest of the developed World we are all mostly globalized. I think I do understand what you are trying to say though. That perhaps they have fallen on tougher times and have learned more from the hard aches of life. But I think its unfair for you to say this cause you don't know me. You are making an assumed judgment of my 'worldly experiences'. To be honest I don't try to stack up my 'worldly experiences' with anyone else.
I'm not saying that anyone's opinions are more credible than anyone else's. I am only saying that it is hasty to go painting people in a country you've never seen with too broad a brush. What is obviously right to us is clearly not obviously right to them, and there are a number of reasons. Some people are asking for change, and can see some injustice. Sure. I watched a woman in the news, fighting for freedom and change. She was so outspoken that she made the news here in Miami every day. When the government was overthrown, (in Egypt, I think) she was told to go home and feed her family. Activism is a man's work. Culture is culture, and it is heavily influenced by the prevailing religions anywhere. My culture is not better than theirs just because I do not wear a burkha and can own my land. A male-dominated legislature is always trying to tell me what Christ says I can do with my own body. The injustice here is different, and usually won't get me killed. Usually. I mena brown people like me are murdered by police in my hometown all the time, and the police are seldom brought to justice. So I say again, the injustice here may be less likely to kill me, but I really do not see America as some superior, forward-thinking nation of righteousness.
This seems it would be a waste of time, and sort of more of an ego thing to try to judge who has better knowledge, so their opinion is more creditable. I more try to aim for being able to recognize doing the right in each situation. Obviously I am Human so this is impossible, and to be honest I do make many mistakes; however, almost all now tend to be mistakes that hurt myself, not others. I feel like you might have said this to sort of put me down or lower me. In sort of a way trying to debunk my opinions of the subject.
Nope. Just trying to keep an open mind myself, and trying to encourage you to do the same.



These example I believe show how it is the actions of a backwards society. They are still using rules of society that are from times of the past, when society was not as evolved as we are today. Using religious reasons to perpetrate horrible acts is a backwards way of thinking. We in the more developed societies believe in freedom of religion for all (happens to be in the US Bill of Rights, our founding rights). The society I have grown up in is that of the late 20th century America, at about the beginning of the information age. The society I grew up in has consistently told said to me to treat others the way I would want to be treated. To respect differences between different peoples and cultures. To try to have understanding of what is truly the right thing to do.
No, my first example comes from the very same time period you describe, the 1970's in New York City. I remember a lot of it spilling into the 80's, and even some craziness you would not believe coming out of the Hassidim as late as 2002. I could dig into it, but it is way off-topic. You may have some homework to do, if you are interested in hearing about injustice in the name of God in the USA.

Also one more little thing. Most of us in the developed World are educated enough to basically understand that the Universe was created though something called the big bang. It has been around for trillions of years, and we are just a freak accident of particles coming together of this huge expanse of time. These particles have come together to form every known element in the Universe. We are made of these elements, as is everything else in the Universe. It was not divine creation by a God. So when people who commit these acts try to justify saying what their are doing is in the name of their God is just so utterly irrational thinking. Especially for a powerful and wealthy family. You would think that they would have been educated enough to understand this. Most of the developed World has, as we believe in our sciences and pursuit of knowing the truth of the Universe.
I'm not sure I agree with you. Most Americans are practicing Christians, and some of those do not believe the world is more than six thousand years old! I had one cuss me out for insisting otherwise. I happen to believe the Big Bang Theory, and I happen to love the idea that we are all stardust. I don't know for sure that's true, however. It is, after all, just a theory. The Bible has a verse wherein it says, Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Matthew 7:3. I don't want to pretend that my country is so much better than Pakistan, though I acknowledge that because of who I am, I don't think I could enjoy a life there. I just want to know why this is permitted to go on in other countries, why the feminists are not beating their chests and kicking up the sand, and why this way of life is being permitted to gain a foothold here. I don't have to worry about dying in an "honor killing". I don't want my future generations to have to worry about it either, and my heart aches for the women who live under the threat of these kinds of laws, in other parts of the world today.
 

AlteredEgo

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,

Here's one link.

The Human Trafficking Project: Men Forced to Marry

I walked past an infant class clearly on a field trip today. 30 kids, one white, a boy, the rest all Asian, & all the girls in burkhas with white hijabs.

The lead teacher was head to toe in the full black burkha, hijab, & Niqab (veil).

I don't think that those kids will be productive to a free society - the boys are being indoctrinated to see uncovered women as immodest & sluts, & the girls are gonna be to scared to make a stand. Then almost all of them will be forced to marry a cousin in Pakistan/Bangladesh, though there are plenty to pick from in the UK already!

That's multi-culturalism in action - this is where it doesn't work at all. What choice do young kids have, if this is all they see? I felt worse for the white kid - he'll never be allowed to go out, or get close to any of the girls.

I am desperate for lunch, but I promise to follow your links and reply to you soon!
 

Intrigue

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I am desperate for lunch, but I promise to follow your links and reply to you soon!


I'm waiting to watch the whole thing with the Mrs. But I'm def interested to see the rest of what this speaker has to say , I already liked the direction of the speech in the first 3 minutes. She has wonderful technique. (Just got done with a speech class so I'm still in critique mode):smile:
 

itsallyours

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I now believe it is probably not worth my time to really respond to some posts anymore. I am not trying to push my views on anyone, and was only stating what I believe. Please don't make assumptions about my education please as you do not know me. And yes I have traveled many places across the world. I have done so for my pleasure, interest of different cultures, and also volunteering to help those less fortunate than I.