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Iowa Poll Goes to Bachmann

whitezanella

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Had to shake my head when I saw that news. Good thing it's just a straw poll, no guarantee that the winner will actually end up in the presidential race, much less live in the White House.
 

Who_Dun_It

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I seriously wonder how many of them voted from her because she was originally born on Iowa:rolleyes:
 

B_VinylBoy

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This straw poll is a joke...Perry will be the nominee because Romney has no shot against Obama.

Many people have been against Romney right from the very start. The fact that he's a Mormon already discredits him in some of the conservative circles. If he ran as an independent and embraced some of his successes (such as RomneyCare) he may have been a contender. But I agree... with Perry in the race, it'll only be a matter of time before the GOP start eating their own and he becomes the GOP nominee. Bachmann will be eventually tossed to the dogs. If history is any indicator, the public tends not to be to kind to female contenders. Ferraro. Clinton. Palin (even though she brought a lot of the scrutiny onto herself).

Bachmann will skip along to the next straw poll thinking she has a chance, then run into the brick wall that is Perry since he has the look, talks the talk and has the swagger that many Conservatives simply want (regardless of what he stands for)... and targets the same audience that Bachmann does. A few weeks of "psycho clips" from Bachmann on repeat among her own party and she'll be out of it. Palin will eventually endorse Perry as well since she too is a person that attracts the religious base and is being positioned as being a "king maker" with a huge legion of fans waiting for her to show them the way (because she ain't running either). The only person left for Perry to defeat would be the frontrunner, and that'll be easy pickings since very few people have been kind to Romney from the beginning.

And Ron Paul is simply not going to win. He's just like Romney... if he ran as an independent, he'd have a much better chance to make an impact. But this is the (R) candidacy we're talking about, and the guidelines for becoming that one person this political season are all too clear.
 
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798686

This is a very sweeping statement, but...why is it that uneducated, indigenous people in the States generally vote Republican, whilst in the UK they vote Labour?

Only thing I can think of is in the US, these people tend to think the Republicans will be better at protecting their country and way of life, while in the UK they assume Labour will be best at providing for them and preserving their traditional way of life?

Just an observation, very generalised and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but was trying to figure it out. :D
 
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houtx48

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you would think the Repbs could come up with main stream candidate instead of a field of nuts. The only difference between Buchmann and Perry is that Perry has not been photographed in a dress yet.
 

B_VinylBoy

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According to the Boston Globe this morning, roughly 17,000 people voted in the straw poll. That's less than 3% of the actual voting population in the state of Iowa that are registered as Republicans (which is estimated at about 640,000 people). So if Bachmann won this poll with 28.6% of the vote, she received under 5,000 votes total.

Damn. We knew that this straw poll was insignificant, but these numbers make it look even more ridiculous. Can someone wake me when Perry & Romney go head to head?
 

D_ Jack_Soffalotte

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This is a very sweeping statement, but...why is it that uneducated, indigenous people in the States generally vote Republican, whilst in the UK they vote Labour?
Are you saying that Native Americans vote Republican? :confused: Or did you mean indigent maybe?

And it's not just the working class who vote Labour in the UK. In the North that is their main voter base. But many educated people whose views lean towards socialism do so as well.
 

D_ Jack_Soffalotte

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And republican straw polls always throw up wacky results. The fringe elements like the teabaggers and Paul's libertarian support have a chance to win these things because their most fanatical supporters are the only people that actually turn up to these things in numbers.

The candidate will probably be Romney, unless someone else enters the race.
 

Calboner

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Joe Scarborough goes to town about the absurdity of Bachmann's candidacy and the irrelevance of the Iowa straw poll to the nomination process: "Michele Bachmann is a joke. She is a joke. . . . Her answer is a joke, her candidacy is a joke, and anybody that sits here and says she has any chance of winning anything is out of their mind. Take your straw poll, take your caucus, but, Iowa, if you let her win, you prove your irrelevance once again."

Scarborough: 'Michele Bachmann Is a Joke' | Video Cafe
 

B_VinylBoy

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Joe Scarborough goes to town about the absurdity of Bachmann's candidacy and the irrelevance of the Iowa straw poll to the nomination process: "Michele Bachmann is a joke. She is a joke. . . . Her answer is a joke, her candidacy is a joke, and anybody that sits here and says she has any chance of winning anything is out of their mind. Take your straw poll, take your caucus, but, Iowa, if you let her win, you prove your irrelevance once again."

Scarborough: 'Michele Bachmann Is a Joke' | Video Cafe

I'm starting to question whether or not Joe is really a Conservative these days. He's making much more sense than anyone running for the nomination right now. I kid my Conservative brethren, of course... but he does make a point. Bachmann?! LOL!!!
 
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798686

Are you saying that Native Americans vote Republican? :confused: Or did you mean indigent maybe?

And it's not just the working class who vote Labour in the UK. In the North that is their main voter base. But many educated people whose views lean towards socialism do so as well.
Lol, I didn't mean native Americans, no.

I'm well aware many educated people vote Labour as well, I didn't say 'only' the working class vote for them.
 

D_ Jack_Soffalotte

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What did you mean then? The word indigenous means native. Lol.

Sorry, I'm not attacking you, your post just confused me... but I think you're saying that the working class in the US tend to vote for the right wing party and in the UK they vote for the traditionally socialist party.

I think a lot of it has to do with different cultures. American society is more religious than ours is (even though constitutionally they are infinitely more secular) so the socially conservative angle comes into play more often on issues like abortion and same sex marriage than it does here, where all the mainstream politicians are more liberal. Also the US had the cold war and the red scare/Mccarthyism, which scared a lot of people away from holding old school leftist views, and actually I think changed American society in more ways than a lot of people realise... and then there's the North/South divide which also divides people between the two parties traditionally. So it's a lot of reasons.

Maybe an actual American could answer this better than I could, but that's my take...
 
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Klingsor

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We also had a number of economic and political crises in the late 70s that finally gave the big-business-supported conservative movement the leverage they'd been seeking for decades. Ever since that Reagan revolution, for the last thirty years, we have had a marked shift to the right, along with a steady increase in the disparity of wealth and a continual erosion of the middle class. Yet people keep lining up to vote for more of the same--or, these days, something even more extreme.
 

dandelion

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I cant help recalling the comments of BBC foreign correspondents, that people in the US just arent interested in foreign affairs. Which means anything outside their home state/town. The growth of central government in just about all countries has been accompanied by greater rights for the individual and a transfer of resources to them.

The US is described as the great melting pot and perhaps it is. But maybe that has equated with a breaking down of the original cohesive groups from which its people came, but no single united replacement. But then again, it still breaks into african americans, and german americans, and french americans, and so on. American tourists are notorious for being interested in where their ancestors came from. Perhaps the wars of the last 100 years have masked these continuing divisions in US society. Maybe an indigenous american is a rather distrustful and unsettled individual who is very suspicious of newcomers to his home town or those from far away washington who threaten to invade his land. The US federal government was designed by people who distrusted governments and wanted to strangle it at birth. This remains true?
 

sargon20

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We also had a number of economic and political crises in the late 70s that finally gave the big-business-supported conservative movement the leverage they'd been seeking for decades. Ever since that Reagan revolution, for the last thirty years, we have had a marked shift to the right, along with a steady increase in the disparity of wealth and a continual erosion of the middle class. Yet people keep lining up to vote for more of the same--or, these days, something even more extreme.

BINGO. And sadly they keep trying to cure the problem with Reagan's voodoo economics with more voodoo. It seems all it takes is two years for everyone to completely forget who and how we got here. The election in 2008 which swept in the democrats was only because the financial collapse was only two months behind us, if it had been two years it would have been President McCain and VP Sarah Palin since Americans can't think back.
 
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798686

.....but I think you're saying that the working class in the US tend to vote for the right wing party and in the UK they vote for the traditionally socialist party

I think a lot of it has to do with different cultures. American society is more religious than ours is (even though constitutionally they are infinitely more secular) so the socially conservative angle comes into play more often on issues like abortion and same sex marriage than it does here, where all the mainstream politicians are more liberal. Also the US had the cold war and the red scare/Mccarthyism, which scared a lot of people away from holding old school leftist views, and actually I think changed American society in more ways than a lot of people realise... and then there's the North/South divide which also divides people between the two parties traditionally. So it's a lot of reasons.
That's more like it! :tongue:

Cheers for the responses, ppl. :)
 

rawrg

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This is a very sweeping statement, but...why is it that uneducated, indigenous people in the States generally vote Republican, whilst in the UK they vote Labour?

Only thing I can think of is in the US, these people tend to think the Republicans will be better at protecting their country and way of life, while in the UK they assume Labour will be best at providing for them and preserving their traditional way of life?

Just an observation, very generalised and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but was trying to figure it out. :D

Both parties have an uneducated portion of their base. Just go to any poor black neighborhood, check the average level of education and then see how they vote. The republicans on the other hand have a pretty firm grim on poor southern whites and the deeply/overzealous religious.

I could go on and on, but the statistics show a fairly even spread:

CNN.com - Elections 2006

People with no H.S. diploma are heavy democratic voters, BUT people with advanced degrees are also heavy democrat voters. The basic left vs right views on the world aren't about intelligence. They're about priorities.

Take abortion for example. When does human life begin? When eggs / sperm are formed? When sperm meets egg? When a child is capable of being born? When the child is physically born? The answer to that question will usually determine how you feel about abortion in general.
 

Klingsor

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Conservatives will tell you that Democrats appeal primarily to poor, uneducated voters, while the better educated, better informed will vote Republican.

Then, in the same breath, they will complain that the faculties of American colleges and universities have an overwhelming liberal bias.

So apparently being better educated makes you a Republican. Unless you're really, *really* well educated.
 
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798686

Conservatives will tell you that Democrats appeal primarily to poor, uneducated voters, while the better educated, better informed will vote Republican.

Then, in the same breath, they will complain that the faculties of American colleges and universities have an overwhelming liberal bias.

So apparently being better educated makes you a Republican. Unless you're really, *really* well educated.
Lol!

I was basically just observing that working class voters - the unthinking ones anyway, not all by any means - tend to vote right wing in the US, and left wing in the UK.

It's not the full picture though, obv - since there are many well-educated Labour voters in the UK, and I guess, educated/intelligent Republican voters in the US?! Altho, maybe that's slightly less clear. :wink: *runs*

Both parties have an uneducated portion of their base. Just go to any poor black neighborhood, check the average level of education and then see how they vote. The republicans on the other hand have a pretty firm grim on poor southern whites and the deeply/overzealous religious.
Yup - that's really why I said indigenous (wrong terminology, it seems, lol) - I meant primarily white or integrated US citizens. Ethnic or immigrant communities, while mainly poor, would probably usually vote Democrat for the same reason they'd vote Labour in the UK - because they're likely to be treated more fairly/sympathetically.

I guess a lot of it does have to do with priorities and mindset - with the religious dimension more prevalent in US politics than here.

Tbh, I'm not sure why deeply religious people tend to ally themselves with conservatism - maybe because they're more defensive of traditional values?... but I would've thought that caring for the less fortunate, and curbing greed and big business excesses was also important in terms of Christianity?

People with no H.S. diploma are heavy democratic voters, BUT people with advanced degrees are also heavy democrat voters. The basic left vs right views on the world aren't about intelligence. They're about priorities.
I'd got the impression that highly educated, free-thinking voters were more likely to vote Democrat (unless that impression is skewed slightly on here?), and also that those with no HS Diploma would vote Republican - but maybe that's only in the south or bible belt areas, as you say?
 
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sargon20

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Both parties have an uneducated portion of their base. Just go to any poor black neighborhood, check the average level of education and then see how they vote.

The Republican Party lost the black vote in the 1960's thanks to the Southern Strategy and consequently gained the Southern states voting bloc. And they haven't looked back since.
 

rawrg

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I'd got the impression that highly educated, free-thinking voters were more likely to vote Democrat (unless that impression is skewed slightly on here?), and also that those with no HS Diploma would vote Republican - but maybe that's only in the south or bible belt areas, as you say?

I'm not saying that you do, but too many people think that formal education and free-thinking go hand in hand. Autodidacts are becoming more and more common thanks to the availability of information these days. I've met graduate students who are little more than automatons parroting that which has been presented to them by their professors, and I've met construction workers who are incredibly lucid and cognitively brilliant. It takes determination, not so much cognitive ability, to make it through most college programs. That being said, someone with high cognitive ability will be more likely to finish college and work with their heads instead of their hands.

/diatribe

Back to the main subject, here's one big reason for the no H.S. diploma democrat voting rate:

Grim graduation rates for black males highlight racial gap

Democrats get 90% of the black vote, and blacks are 15% of the population. Only 47% of black men are currently graduating. Hence, you get a large block of people without H.S. Diplomas voting for democrats. This isn't the only reason however. A lot of people working in the trades, especially union trades, vote democrat. Unions and democrats are pretty tightly connected. These blue collar workers are more likely to have less education.

So there are lots of factors :biggrin1:
 
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How is Ron Paul fringe and not electable? What issue is he on the fringe of?

You know, I like this forum, but there is certainly an underlying "holier than thou" superiority, yet you are forming your opinions on talking points about Paul that are given by the mainstream media when they actually do talk about Paul. In fact, politico and CNN admitted today the anti-Paul bias by the mainstream media.

I wonder how many people would have not become President who are usually highly regarded as the best among the best if the media culture was as biased as it was today. Off the top of my head, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, James Polk, Theodore Roosevelt and FDR...
 
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B_VinylBoy

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Back to the main subject, here's one big reason for the no H.S. diploma democrat voting rate:

Grim graduation rates for black males highlight racial gap

Democrats get 90% of the black vote, and blacks are 15% of the population. Only 47% of black men are currently graduating. Hence, you get a large block of people without H.S. Diplomas voting for democrats. This isn't the only reason however.

Do you really want to try and draw some correlation between the intelligence of people who vote Democrats by using graduating statistics of black people? :rolleyes:

As explained before, the reason why Democrats get the mass majority of the black vote is because Republicans continually invoke the Southern Strategy, which targets all different kinds of minorities and blames them for the ills of the nation in an attempt to secure a white voting population. The reasoning behind this strategy is simple... since there are more white people than all other minorities combined in this country, all they have to do is convince (or scare) them into believing that everyone that doesn't look, talk or think like them are the problem when something goes wrong in America. Lost your job? Blame it on the Hispanics and Mexicans who sneak over the border illegally and steal them. Paying too much on taxes? Blame it on those black "Welfare Queens" who do nothing but sit around and make babies just to draw a few bucks every month. And while you're at it, blame these three groups for all the drugs and crime that plagues your neighborhood as well. It's very effective in the South, alas in other parts of the country (especially more urban areas) it doesn't work so well.

Regardless of whether or not someone has a diploma, one learns very quickly that if a particular faction of people is constantly blaming you and your type for everything wrong in this country, collectively they're not gonna vote for you. Unfortunately for these Southern Strategists, they didn't expect a good portion of white people to get wise to the game and vote against them. This is what's happened over the last few decades, and better explains why some Democrats have been able to withstand GOP candidates who engage in divisive politics to win elections. It certainly has nothing to do with whether or not Democrats are represented by a large uneducated body due to a particular race's troublesome numbers when it comes to High School Diplomas, as you're now dishonestly implying.

Besides, as of 2009 the percentage of black people in this country, 25 or older, who have at least a HS Diploma was 84%. With a number that high, perhaps some black men could be doing something else besides getting a HS Diploma... like perhaps their GED. Something to speculate about if the ultimate goal is to get a clearer picture of how Americans vote. - African American Demographics, Population, Incomes, Veterans, Education, Voting — Infoplease.com

And in 2008, black people barely made more than 11 Million of the 125 Million people who voted in the Presidential election. Even if the graduation rate among black men is as low as the article you sourced, it's still a very SMALL number compared to the more than 66 Million who voted Democrat. And I'll give you a hint... most of the votes Obama received were from white people even though McCain had a slim majority among white voters. Meanwhile, all minority groups (Blacks, Asians, Hispanics and others) voted heavily for Obama over McCain by at least a 30% margin. If you need to figure out why Republicans lost during the last election, look no further than that. Let's just say that the "Southern Strategy" backfired and shot the antagonizers right in the face. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#USP00p1

I rest my case for now. But whatever... who am I to say otherwise with my "some college" education? We supposed to be all stupid and shit. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a toaster that needs a set of rims. And they're spinnin', muthafucka... they're spinnin'!!! :rolleyes:
 
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