IQs of Liberals and Atheists

Guy-jin

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Does anti-religion = atheism (or agnosticism)?

Antitheism is more like a subset of Atheism. Atheists are not inherently antitheist (or anti-religion).

For example, I am an Atheist, but I believe that people are entitled to believe what they want, even if it is Theism of some sort. An Antitheist would be actively against Theism generally.
 
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Antitheism is more like a subset of Atheism. Atheists are not inherently antitheist (or anti-religion).

For example, I am an Atheist, but I believe that people are entitled to believe what they want, even if it is Theism of some sort.

I agree - altho I'm not in favour of people being brainwashed into a certain view of things and not being given both sides of the story.
 
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I think the intelligent thing would be to assume not everyone thinks or solves problems in the same way. I wonder what would have come of us if we did?
 

blazblue

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This bothers me since IQ levels by themselves don't mean anything and there's more to intelligence than just a IQ level (look up the user Hardened1 if you don't believe me) and it also reeks of elitism too ("I have a higher IQ because I'm an Atheist and therefore I'm smarter and better than you" although I wonder what it means if your IQ is high and you're a liberal who's Theist) which is kind of why I don't roll with Atheists much.
 
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This bothers me since IQ levels by themselves don't mean anything and there's more to intelligence than just a IQ level (look up the user Hardened1 if you don't believe me) and it also reeks of elitism too ("I have a higher IQ because I'm an Atheist and therefore I'm smarter and better than you" although I wonder what it means if your IQ is high and you're a liberal who's Theist) which is kind of why I don't roll with Atheists much.

I agree, there has been mention in this thread about religion.

Lets say atheists wish to do good in the world, help their fellow man. They do it for their reasons, their own. The majority of religion wishes to do good in this world also, they do it for their reasons, their own.

The ultimate goal of both atheism and religion is good. Does it matter how one or the other arrive at the answer? Why debate on how each solve the problem if the goal or answer is the same?
 
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AquaEyes11010

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I agree, there has been mention in this thread about religion.

Lets say atheists wish to do good in the world, help their fellow man. They do it for their reasons, their own. The majority of religion wishes to do good in this world also, they do it for their reasons, their own.

The ultimate goal of both atheism and religion is good. Does it matter how one or the other arrive at the answer? Why debate on how each solve the problem if the goal or answer is the same?


Because when one side says "you must do good because the deity says so", it usually evolves into that side defining what IS good and what IS NOT good based on cherry-picked lines from an ancient book of myths -- and the atheists see that as a way of leading good people to do bad things "because god said so."
 

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If you truly question, question everything. I don't think too many atheists do this in reality. They don't question atheistic philosophy or scientists (Science it at least 99.9% interpretation, just as religion is). That being said, many religious people don't either. But question even the idea of questioning. If you question too much to its logical conclusion (unaided by intuition), you're likely to become a nihilist.
 

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This bothers me since IQ levels by themselves don't mean anything and there's more to intelligence than just a IQ level (look up the user Hardened1 if you don't believe me) and it also reeks of elitism too ("I have a higher IQ because I'm an Atheist and therefore I'm smarter and better than you" although I wonder what it means if your IQ is high and you're a liberal who's Theist) which is kind of why I don't roll with Atheists much.

My IQ is well over 150, one of the highest in the state of Minnesota.... and yet I have a learning disability and on common sense IQ tests I score as mildly retarded.... tests don't necessarily mean anything.
 

Popyuu

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Because when one side says "you must do good because the deity says so", it usually evolves into that side defining what IS good and what IS NOT good based on cherry-picked lines from an ancient book of myths -- and the atheists see that as a way of leading good people to do bad things "because god said so."

I agree but would add that religion isn't the only way to do so. Its just a thousand times more unregulatable than many...other...things.

If you truly question, question everything. I don't think too many atheists do this in reality. They don't question atheistic philosophy or scientists (Science it at least 99.9% interpretation, just as religion is). That being said, many religious people don't either. But question even the idea of questioning. If you question too much to its logical conclusion (unaided by intuition), you're likely to become a nihilist.

Tend to disagree. Sure its observation but its based on observation that has years and years of tests upon tests behind it (as well as observation and even more tests). With large numbers of people from every walk of life challenging it daily.
 

AquaEyes11010

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If you truly question, question everything. I don't think too many atheists do this in reality. They don't question atheistic philosophy or scientists (Science it at least 99.9% interpretation, just as religion is). That being said, many religious people don't either. But question even the idea of questioning. If you question too much to its logical conclusion (unaided by intuition), you're likely to become a nihilist.



Questioning the same things shouldn't go on forever. Obviously, at some point, enough "material" is present to start drawing conclusions. The person who forever questions the same things must be unwilling to accept any evidence.

We are born agnostic. We are told stories of beings called gods. Some of us believe them, no evidence required, and become religious. Others reject the stories being true and either remain agnostic or draw their own conclusions that result in atheism. After all, that this whole "debate" has been going on for so long, and the side proposing the extraordinary explanation has yet to offer any evidence, I feel the REASONABLE conclusion is that the concept holds no water. And I'm not alone in coming to that conclusion.
 
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Because when one side says "you must do good because the deity says so", it usually evolves into that side defining what IS good and what IS NOT good based on cherry-picked lines from an ancient book of myths -- and the atheists see that as a way of leading good people to do bad things "because god said so."

I can only speak for myself, but I would not do bad things because a god (religion), or an atheist tells me too. I probably consider myself a reasonably good person as are the majority of people, either atheist or religious and would not go out of my way to do 'bad' to another unless I had very good personal reasons to do so.


So who what would make up truly bad person, one that believes in science only? One that believes in a god?.... Or one that believes in science 'and' a god?

Maybe the one that does not believe in either, is solely in it for their own benefit and is not concerned for the consequences?

Or the one who wears black? :)
 
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vince

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IMO science, unlike religion, is not something to be "believed". Beliefs are reserved for that which cannot be proved to exist. Science is the systematic study of the natural world though observation and experimentation. It's just a practical and intellectual activity trying to increase and organize knowledge. While it does not always get it right, beliefs are not required.

I have no belief in any deity, god, sky daddy, or whatever one wishes to call them. Religion is a relic of a time when humans had little understanding of the forces at work in the physical world and personally I can't fathom why modern people feel the need to believe in myths from time when we thought our planet was the centre of the universe and monsters lived in the seas. Monothesim is no less ridiculous than paganism.
 
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Questioning the same things shouldn't go on forever. Obviously, at some point, enough "material" is present to start drawing conclusions. The person who forever questions the same things must be unwilling to accept any evidence.

We are born agnostic. We are told stories of beings called gods. Some of us believe them, no evidence required, and become religious. Others reject the stories being true and either remain agnostic or draw their own conclusions that result in atheism. After all, that this whole "debate" has been going on for so long, and the side proposing the extraordinary explanation has yet to offer any evidence, I feel the REASONABLE conclusion is that the concept holds no water. And I'm not alone in coming to that conclusion.

There are a couple of other things we do when we are born, other than being born Agnostic. Is that we have the ability to cry, and smile. You are born with them, and die with them.
 
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IMO science, unlike religion, is not something to be "believed". Beliefs are reserved for that which cannot be proved to exist. Science is the systematic study of the natural world though observation and experimentation. It's just a practical and intellectual activity trying to increase and organize knowledge. While it does not always get it right, beliefs are not required.

I have no belief in any deity, god, sky daddy, or whatever one wishes to call them. Religion is a relic of a time when humans had little understanding of the forces at work in the physical world and personally I can't fathom why modern people feel the need to believe in myths from time when we thought our planet was the centre of the universe and monsters lived in the seas. Monothesim is no less ridiculous than paganism.

I believe and have 'faith' in the things I construct. I tend also and believe and have faith that the guys in science know what they are doing also. Although there have been some major fuckups as well as breakthroughs regarding the latter. It's all a learning curve.
 
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Drifterwood

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If you truly question, question everything. I don't think too many atheists do this in reality. They don't question atheistic philosophy or scientists (Science it at least 99.9% interpretation, just as religion is). That being said, many religious people don't either. But question even the idea of questioning. If you question too much to its logical conclusion (unaided by intuition), you're likely to become a nihilist.

I don't call myself an Atheist, I just say that I am not a Theist, nor a Meta-physicist for that matter.

And you may well be right.
 
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I don't call myself an Atheist, I just say that I am not a Theist, nor a Meta-physicist for that matter.

And you may well be right.

I sometimes call myself fuckedup.....It's all societies fault though for not providing enough distractions for me not to become bored.............................................................................................................................. :) So, did you count those dots?
 
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breeze

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Speaking of celestial evidence there seems to be a lot or not. The list is long but its not something taught in schools or expressed in our media.

This isn't intended to prove or disprove but merely to show a few examples. One thing is clear no one is going to resolve these. You would go down in history. Well maybe the 1st example.

This is kind of lighthearted but serious at the same moment. It wasn't reported in the west or the east. But its on the net.

The russians had one their orbits years ago. One of the cosmonauts reported an orange cloud approaching them. This orange cloud was also tracked by nasa. When the orbit entered the cloud the cosmonauts reported the presence of 10 giant celestial beings matching the descriptions of angels.

The russians are not known for their sense of humor.
Scientists , since their credibility is at stake , are not known for their sense of humor.
The russian space agency { see above }.
The cosmonauts { see above }.
As far as i know , and i don't know that much about it , no one from russia has ever refuted this claim.
It totally out of character in all respects.

Example 2 - The Appearance of the Virgn Mary in Guadalupe Mexico in 1531
More serious and mysterious. Brieftly somewhat.

The church until the 20th century had approved only one general miracle. That place in france. After a 450 year investigation or so it approved the guadalupe apparition.

Juan Diego { who some scientists doubt ever lived } encountered the Virgin Mary who asked him to deliver some roses to the bishop of mexico. When he did an image instantly appeared on the cloth the roses were wrapped in. A very complex image of the Virgin Mary.

That image has become one of the mostly studied objects in history. An army of scientists from MIT { i believe did a recent study } , cal tech , xerox , bell etc etc.has studied the cloth for over 400 years.

The image of the Virgin Mary is on tilma which is "ayata fiber " which i've read usually decomposes in either weeks or years. Its been almost 500 years. The image has remained in pristine condition despite floods , a bombing, smoke and acid. The embellishments have cracked and faded.

" As early as the 18th century scientists showed it was impossible to paint such an image in a fabric of that nature " Tripod/Mary

A sample of the image was given to the nobel prize winner in physics in the 1920s who said he didn't know what it was but it wasn't paint. Then a sample was given to richard kuhn who had won the nobel prize in chemistry who stated the image did not have natural animal , or mineral coloring.

Later in 1979 ibm scientist phillp calllahan and jody smith using digital enchancement and iinfrared rays looked for any evidence the image was done by human hands. They concluded the image could not have been done by human hands.

But before that ophthalmologists had began studying the eyes in the image after it was reported that tiny figures existed within the eyes. In 1956 Dr.Javier Buneo certified the presence of tiny figures in the eyes exactly where they would be in live eyes and showing the samson - purkinje effect { we see in curves / the eye is curved }.

Later engineer jose tonsmann magnified the tiny figures through mathematical and optical procedures in a digital process using satellites and space probes. The figures seem to represent the moment the veil was unclothed.

Others reports , which i have heard off but never read have , identified micro arteries circulating in the free edge of the eyelids. I guess live arteries not paintings. Of course impossible.

But believe it or not that is brief when compared to the hundreds if not thousands of studies. Who doesn't like a good mystery. Tripod/Mary but there are hundreds of articles on this apparition. The image , i think , has beoome the national image of mexico.
 
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D_Malcolm_MacPudd

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Well, maybe this explains why I did so well when I took the Graduate Record Examination (GRE) way back in the late 1970s. I did take a free prep class offered by UT during which the instructor asked: "You've only got 5 more minutes to finish the 30 questions left in the math section and you've got to pee real bad! What do you do?"

She then dispensed the best advice I ever received up to that point in my life. Although better advice would have been to attend a different grad school like Northwestern, U.C. Berkeley, or Stanford. But things still worked out well for me.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/26/liberals.atheists.sex.intelligence/index.html
:biggrin1:

what does any of that have to do with your link???