Iran and Quantity of Nuclear Weapons ... Bluffing?

geitjeshoeder

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The American press is mostly biased by the right-wing neoconservatives.
Also the freedom of the press is opressed when compared to European nations or Canada.

Persvrijheid.png


The renewed freedom of information act has made it possible for the US government to censor a lot of news.

The stuff Bush don't want to let people know about:

- In the state of Arkansas the FEMA has thousands of trailers for the victims of hurricane Katrina, they have been standing there for 5 months, While people have been living in tent camps. Dead people, broken freezers have been laying all around there for months and months, spreading e-coli and other illnesses

- 60% of all the GIs in Iraq believe that they are there to avenge 9/11. No evidence has ever been found that Iraq helped Al Qaeda during the Saddam regime.

- 28 million Americans go with out proper health insurance. Many more don't have the money to get a proper education.

- Gang-wars and drug use are demolishing urban-communitees at an alarming rate. The police forces have been depleated, because mister Bush wanted to fight a war overseas.

- AIDS and HIV numbers are growing inside the US, aswell as the number of teenage parents.

- Corporations like Wal-Mart is underpaying it's staff in such a way, they need to depend on welfare just to make ends meet. In doing so, they put small family owned businesses out of work.

But hey Iran could have a nuke within 4 years, thats scary. Bush is covering up the lie he is telling about America and it's invincible economy.
 

dong20

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faceking said:
Lotsa blather to say yellowcake takes awhile to bake.

Yellowcake is a raw material starting point not the end product...and relatively easily obtained on the world market for a few US$/lb but that's not what geitjeshoeder was explaining.

I remember Iraq's attempt to purchase it causing much furore in the media because they played on the general levels of ignorance for typically crass reasons.
 

SpeedoGuy

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faceking said:
Um, what the guy is quoting is translated from the AP... AP=NPR=AirAmerica=CBS=every standard AM radio station=Katie Couric=howard Dean.

Every standard AM radio station is one of those dreaded liberal media outlets? Interesting observation. It certainly differs from my own experience with the political tone dominating AM radio.

faceking said:
Just like the myriad of Clintonesque quotes on Iraq, one of which includes "And I might say UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq has actually greatly understated its production."

"Clinton did it too." The standard conservative response to any criticism these days.
 

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rob_just_rob said:
Still, there was the so-called "missile gap" in the 60s... can I hang my hat on that? :cool:
yeah, kinda. the USSR did manufacture a lot more delivery systems than the US, but there's substantial evidence to indicate that not many of them were actually armed (most were obsolete and scrapped long before there were enough warheads to equip them). also, they were pretty crappy missiles compared to NATO's.

faceking said:
Get over it... so when the loon sez Israel is and will be wiped off the map, and the holocaust was a lie... I'm guessing Hallibruton is paying the ultra-liberal Associated Press to state that. Spare me.
... what? if you're gonna indulge in political masturbation, at least make an effort to be basically coherent.
 

Dr. Dilznick

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SurferGirlCA said:
Given how wrong the "intelligence community" got it on Iraq and seeing how the current Administration then took that already-flawed intelligence and cherry-picked what it wanted to justify going to war, on top of the fact that the Iranian president seems to be as big a nutjob as Saddam Hussein, how are we supposed to know WHAT to believe? :rolleyes:
Iran has what, about 4 times the population of Iraq, a better military, and unlike Iraq is not situated in a flat desert. They might think blowing up a couple targets is going to collapse the theocracy, but it's just going to give the mullahs more rallying power.
 

SpeedoGuy

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Dr. Dilznick said:
Iran has what, about 4 times the population of Iraq, a better military, and unlike Iraq is not situated in a flat desert. They might think blowing up a couple targets is going to collapse the theocracy, but it's just going to give the mullahs more rallying power.

Agreed. It'll only make the mullahs stronger. Antagonizing Iran by invading it or even using selected airstrikes will open up a much bigger set of problems than we have already.

Use tactical nukes against Iran's labs and development centers (as has been suggested)? Great. Teach Iran not to want nukes by using nukes on it. That'll teach'em.
 

dong20

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Having done some background reading there is a silver lining, or at least a potential one. It would appear there is a steady trend, certainly among younger Iranians for an increased dialog with the west.

I don't know if this will survive the recently elected president as he is considered something of a hard liner. He was described as a big a 'nut job' as Saddam....and taking into account his attempts to deny the Holocoaust, a recent witchhunt following some 'unkind' text messages and his rhetoric against Israel she may have a point.

With that in mind, this is a quote from Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani (He was the so-called “moderate” candidate in the last Iranian election)

He was on record saying the following:

“When the Islamic world acquires atomic weapons, the strategy of the West will hit a dead end — since the use of a single atomic bomb has the power to destroy Israel completely, while an Israeli counterstrike can only cause partial damage to the Islamic world.”

That's from a perceived moderate....note the 'when' However talk is cheap and GWB going off on another crusade is hardly going to bring the Middle East any nearer to peace.
 

chruichie

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Could it be fare to say they have no intention to creat nuclear power but to stir up nationalism to side line the troubled common folk (take thier minds off the crap government? Redirect thier frustrations?
 

dong20

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chruichie said:
Could it be fare to say they have no intention to creat nuclear power but to stir up nationalism to side line the troubled common folk (take thier minds off the crap government? Redirect thier frustrations?

Indeed, its a possibility I suggested earlier, or perhaps a ploy to get a place at the big boys table. That said Galtieri did the same to us (the UK) and he wasn't bluffing so it's hard to tell, but then he had nothing to lose and the stakes here are way higher!
 

SpeedoGuy

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dong20 said:
Indeed, its a possibility I suggested earlier, or perhaps a ploy to get a place at the big boys table. That said Galtieri did the same to us (the UK) and he wasn't bluffing so it's hard to tell, but then he had nothing to lose and the stakes here are way higher!

Well said. India and Pakistan joined the big boy's club when they demonstrated they have fission weapons and delivery rockets. North Korea as well. Probably Israel too.

While I dread the prospect of repressive nations gaining nuclear weapons, should anyone be surprised that Iran wants them? Iran is now nearly surrounded by aggressive western military forces who've shown a penchant for invasion.

I doubt Ahmadinejad wants to guarantee Iran's destruction by launching a nuclear first strike against Europe, the U.S. or even Israel. He shows every sign of being a hardliner but anti-western and anti-Israel rhetoric is nothing new in Tehran. Warlike rhetoric might play well for his internal audience but it doesn't automatically make him suicidal. Ahmadinejad's got to be sobered to know that plenty of western nuclear hardware would fall on Tehran should he ever decide to lob a nuke outwards.
 

dong20

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SpeedoGuy said:
I doubt Ahmadinejad wants to guarantee Iran's destruction by launching a nuclear first strike against Europe, the U.S. or even Israel. He shows every sign of being a hardliner but anti-western and anti-Israel rhetoric is nothing new in Tehran. Warlike rhetoric might play well for his internal audience but it doesn't automatically make him suicidal. Ahmadinejad's got to be sobered to know that plenty of western nuclear hardware would fall on Tehran should he ever decide to lob a nuke outwards.

I agree, he may be mad but he's not crazy :smile:
 

solong

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dong20 said:
What's more.... if they did they wouldn't care ..did you read the 9/11 conspiracy thread? Interesting and I'm not quite sure what to make of it :eek:

I've been watching these videos and examining the frames. The stuff about the pentagon is clearly fabricated in these "conspiracy" videos. The plane hit the ground several hundred yards before it slid into the building, going 200 mph.

If you look at the hole it made, you will immediately see that it was no missile, because a missile would have blown the hell out of the first outer layer and it's damage would have been "mushroom-shaped." Instead, the hole was cone-shaped and fairly clean, as though a missile-shaped projectile loaded with fuel hit it at a fast rate of speed. A bomb simply would not make the clean hole through the first two layers of the building, and partly through the third.

As far as the so-called "missiles" strapped to the planes to hit the twin towers, these were laboriously touched, and then looped so you kept seeing it again and again.

The one thing the government cannot fake are the multiple layers of corroborating passenger lists, the recordings, the flight logs, the ticket receipts, the phone calls from the planes by passengers, etc. etc. etc. it's the best documented evidence in the world.

Just because the media did everything they could think of to discredit GWB, including fraudulent video and half-truths, and yes, "It sounded just like a missile," After the witness was first asked, "Do you think also that it could have been a missile?" It has finally dawned on me that perhaps it could have been a missile, too. You know, one that went skidding along the ground after its wings busted off on impact. The hole it made in the wall of the Pentagon was perfectly round, and exactly at ground level. Show me a launched missile that can do that, and then keep making the same sized hole in the next two layers, and I'll show you a bargain that you can't pass up. Did you know the brooklyn bridge is now for sale, and I have the deed?

Just keep this one very important fact in mind. The media are not technicians or explosive experts. They are rather dumb, overall. When they get an idea of something they want you to suspicion, they are not above fabricating it on their own time. Then, when they have generated appropriate doubt, they will start up their old rant, "Bush lied." Don't forget though-- we already know who lies the most, and we have the proof in black and white after every issue of the New York Times. Take the fighting Marines' version of the war, compare that to the media version, and you have east and west. You have a complete fabrication by either the Marines, or the media. So now, which do you think have the msot to gain by lying to you about it? (DUH!)
 

RemixX

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solong said:
......They are rather dumb, overall......

Ditto. I don't trust any Media, they won't ever get the story right. They publish what will get read and start rumors, why? Cause they are money hungry pieces of shit.

Enough said..
 

D_Humper E Bogart

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geitjeshoeder said:
The centrifuges do not shake the building at all. They have been damped (well if there build okay that is :D ), they don't look like your average washing machine or so.

I'm talking about biolchemical centrifuges though. Designed to seperate microscopic molecules from liquid media (like seperating mitochondria from tissue fractions).

Well, at least you know your nuclear shiznit, but does anyone else know the difference between them?
 

dong20

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Iran is back in the news....IAEA report saying Iran has not complied with UN deadlines, like anyone expected them to.

The Tony Bush show is gearing up for some tough talking by invoking Chapter 7 (France for once is not going off a tangent) and Iran says it could care less what the UN thinks, says or does. China and Russia are adopting their usual weak ass approach to anything that may expose skeletons in their respective cupboards, and Khomeni suggests that Iran may share its technology with others (unspecified).

Looks like warming up into quite a party, round one in Paris next week. Time to sell my condo in Mashad maybe?
 

jeremyA

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So who crazy round here, a bunch of dumb americans who believe every peice of shit fed to them by the Bush controlled media and think that the world is composed of them and a bunch of rag heads who want to blow them up for no good reason, or a middle eastern country that has the balls to stand up to America and tells them to go and fuck themselves ?
The sooner someone kicks America back into the stoneage the sooner the rest of the world can get on with real stuff without the constant game of the sane world being policed by a bunch of morons most of whom cannot even find iran on a map.
 

dong20

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jeremyA said:
So who crazy round here, a bunch of dumb americans who believe every peice of shit fed to them by the Bush controlled media and think that the world is composed of them and a bunch of rag heads who want to blow them up for no good reason, or a middle eastern country that has the balls to stand up to America and tells them to go and fuck themselves ?

Craziness is in the mind of the beholder. The real problem is not Americans it's American foreign policy towards Iran bluff or not. On the other side of the equation the problem not Iranians but Iranian foreign Policy towards America bluff or not. People all over the world believe what the media spoon feed them including right here in Blighty. I applaud Iran for standing up to the US not because I think they should have nuclear weapons (I don't think anyone should) but because I believe any sovereign nation has the right to stand up for itself.

jeremyA said:
The sooner someone kicks America back into the stoneage the sooner the rest of the world can get on with real stuff without the constant game of the sane world being policed by a bunch of morons most of whom cannot even find iran on a map.

A weakness in geography is hardly a uniquely US problem but I grant you they have it bad. :rolleyes:

The US is for good or bad, a dominant economic, political and military force and will likely remain so for some time so deal with it. Until that changes, and it will, or you storm up Pennsylvania Av. and demand unconditional surrender quit whining about how evil Americans are and how they are to blame for the worlds woes, cos it aint so.

P.S. Belated welcome to the group :smile:
P.P.S. Can I have some of your angry pills :biggrin1:
 

tallguypns

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jeremyA said:
So who crazy round here, a bunch of dumb americans who believe every peice of shit fed to them by the Bush controlled media and think that the world is composed of them and a bunch of rag heads who want to blow them up for no good reason, or a middle eastern country that has the balls to stand up to America and tells them to go and fuck themselves ?
The sooner someone kicks America back into the stoneage the sooner the rest of the world can get on with real stuff without the constant game of the sane world being policed by a bunch of morons most of whom cannot even find iran on a map.


This dumb american is smart enough to know you have someone else's penis posted in your profile, have been called on it, and still haven't taken it down.
 

D_alex8

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Dr Rock said:
someone else's badly-photoshopped penis, even :rolleyes:

If it's good enough for three different LPSG members to be using it in the gallery at the moment, then it must have something going for it. :rolleyes: