Iran trading in Euros/Yen and US's response

[Flashy]

Oh, look! Yet another "argument" that Flashy will never give up. God help us all.

oh look, it is Silver Train with another nasty, false comment directed at me, once again with no provocation.


this is not an argument, this is a statement of fact about what would happen with a military strike on Iran. This is my opinion on how to stop Iran. Since Iran has made it clear they are not giving up their Nuke program, this is merely the scenario of what will happen.:

A. We do nothing, Iran achieves their nuclear weapon program, playing the NOrth Korea playbook perfectly.
B. We hit them militarily, destroy the IRGC, their Intelligence Arm and Nuke Program...Nuclear crisis solved


two choices, pretty simple. I see no argument, other than making the choice between the two.

I choose B.

that is my opinion.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

DUH...read the next points

Unnecessary.

who cares. this is not an internal issue.

No action exists in a vacuum, the impact on internal affairs is always an issue.

our job is not to interfere in their internal politics any more then is already done on a covert level that has been going on for years to dissident groups and intelligence gathering.

one thing is for certain, an Iran who is no longer a regional threat, who has lost the entire IRGC and their military complex, plus their nuke program, will stand a much better chance of insuring economic prosperity in the future, as opposed to facing crippling sanctions for years.

In case you had not noticed, the Iranian economy is a major sticking point, and Iran needs to be able to exploit their massive oil wealth to remerge in prosperity.

an Iran crippled by sanctions cannot do that. An Iran, with the IRGC and Intelligence arms and nuke program utterly destroyed, is no longer a military threat...as such, the power of people like Ahminedjedad and his ilk will be severely impacted. After that, it is up to the Iranian people, but they will inherit a country that will no longer face possibly crippling ssanctions, and would no longer be subjected to the force of the IRGC.





it is rather simple...as i said. we destroy the entire Iranian Military, systematically, from the top down. Start with the Nuclear Program, Intelligence Branches and IRGC, then hit the military infrastructure and fabrication plants, destroy their long range missile capability and all elements of it and any other targets of strategic military value.

After that, we see what they choose to do. Since they will have no military options left, there really is not much they can do.

Then, we wait. We see if the regime collapses, or if it is able to survive. But, in the meantime, we have destroyed the greatest single threat in the region....what happens then, does not matter from a military standpoint, since they will have no capabilities left....from then on, it is an Iranian internal issue. We offer all our support to the reformers, we support the dissidents as we have always done, we offer a reconciliation with the US after 30 years and a brand new start if Iranian reformers come to power, economic assistance, the rescinding of all sanctions.

aside from that, there is not much else we can do. Iran's drive for the nuke program has pushed us to the point where now there is no other option. We cannot have another North Korea.

Simple as.

i am sorry if you do not like that, but it is Realpolitik, and dead honest.

Again, familiar.

 

[Flashy]

Again, familiar.

Again, provide your plan to stop the Iranian Nuke program.

i have not heard you offer one solution...you simply snipe from the peanut gallery.

so, you choose to do nothing.

frankly, if you had a brilliant solution i am all ears...but you don't...you simply do not like mine.

Again, familiar indeed.

 

[SilverTrain]

oh look, it is Silver Train with another nasty, false comment directed at me, once again with no provocation.


this is not an argument, this is a statement of fact about what would happen with a military strike on Iran. This is my opinion on how to stop Iran. Since Iran has made it clear they are not giving up their Nuke program, this is merely the scenario of what will happen.:

A. We do nothing, Iran achieves their nuclear weapon program, playing the NOrth Korea playbook perfectly.
B. We hit them militarily, destroy the IRGC, their Intelligence Arm and Nuke Program...Nuclear crisis solved


two choices, pretty simple. I see no argument, other than making the choice between the two.

I choose B.

that is my opinion.

You continually post the most astoundingly condescending stuff that is really quite breathtaking in it's audacity. An audacity that conjures up images of "sheltered beyond belief" scenarios. And you posit all manner of "fact" that is quite obviously nothing more than opinion. That you do so with brazen disregard for everyone else's feelings does not enhance your position.

Your persistence in completely disregarding the ideal that brevity is next to godliness--not helping.

I've really tried to find all sorts of reasons for not finding these posts to be an outrageous breach of all social and argumentative etiquette. I've tried and failed.

You're spitting into the wind, man. Really.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

Again, provide your plan to stop the Iranian Nuke program.

i have not heard you offer one solution...you simply snipe from the peanut gallery.

so, you choose to do nothing.

frankly, if you had a brilliant solution i am all ears...but you don't...you simply do not like mine.

Again, familiar indeed.

I, nor anyone else, has come up with "a brilliant solution", that's the problem. Whatever the ultimate manner in which the world chooses to address Iran, it will have to go beyond pure force and not be of the same stale, failed actions we've been dragging out of mothballs for decades.

 

[Flashy]

You continually post the most astoundingly condescending stuff that is really quite breathtaking in it's audacity. An audacity that conjures up images of "sheltered beyond belief" scenarios. And you posit all manner of "fact" that is quite obviously nothing more than opinion. That you do so with brazen disregard for everyone else's feelings does not enhance your position.

Your persistence in completely disregarding the ideal that brevity is next to godliness--not helping.

I've really tried to find all sorts of reasons for not finding these posts to be an outrageous breach of all social and argumentative etiquette. I've tried and failed.

You're spitting into the wind, man. Really.

so much for brevity...much more than your usual two line snipe at everything and anyone you dislike or disagree with.

i am sorry if you have such a problem with a concise, thought out, 8 paragraph post that covers the angles of a potential military strike on Iran.

As for audacious condescension, you really are not one to talk. The history of your 1 or 2 line snitty, nasty condescension or insults can be rather easily found.

Apparently, audacious condescension is only acceptable if it is in quip form.

As for "sheltered beyond belief", i find that amusing...privileged? Yes. Fortunate? yes. Sheltered? Sorry. Not even close.

As for positing "fact" as something that is no more than opinion, sorry, but you have proven nothing to the contrary. Everything i say, in this thread regarding, for example, Iranian military comparisons, is *FACT* based, on endless discussions with my cousin, who, is a member of the Israeli Defense Forces, and by my other relatives and friends who are former members of said organization.

The fact is, that i know far more than you on the topic of military strategy in the middle east then you do, after a lifetime of being exposed to it by people who actually are a part of it.

that is not an opinion...that, my bellicose friend of brevity, is a fact.

as for my "brazen disregard for everyone else's feelings", i will have to attempt to reconcile that insult from a poster who has dished out plenty of that to all manner of poster here, myself included, even though i have never once shot a nasty word your way, as i have said over and over on this forum, for one reason, and one reason only...yet you still feel compelled to attack me with brazen disregard for my feelings, even though you know i never respond, when you know i have gone out of my way to never say one specifically bad word against you ever, because of your advice on one incident.

So i am sorry...but my "brazen disregard" does, in fact have limits...and my dealings with you here are proof that "brazen disregard" is not, my MO...since i clearly do not disregard everything nor am i brazen about it.

Once again, i am sorry if you do not like the response, but when someone as brazenly and willfully unconcerned with others' feelings begins pontificating about that problem in others, the accusation begins to ring a bit stale.

Since i have no desire to fight with you, and have always gone out of my way to avoid that, i see no other alternative but to go back to not responding to your constant attacks whenever they come, after this one particular response.

 

[B_nyvin]

Russia and China will not allow a military intervention, especially china.

 

[Flashy]

I, nor anyone else, has come up with "a brilliant solution", that's the problem. Whatever the ultimate manner in which the world chooses to address Iran, it will have to go beyond pure force and not be of the same stale, failed actions we've been dragging out of mothballs for decades.

and that is precisely the problem...the time for a solution is passed...and when that happens, there is no other option but military.

you have no options, you have no solutions to present, the Iranians are thumbing their noses, and they are running the *EXACT* same playbook that they learned from the North Koreans to achieve their goal of a nuclear weapons program.

The Chinese and the Russians are taking the teeth out of any possible sanctions and solutions against Iran.

As such, the zero hour has come.

and if you mean war as one of the same "stale failed actions we've been dragging out of mothballs for decades", maybe you forgot to note that war has been around for thousands of years and has been a solution for much more than decades...

and, the fact is, war is the only option when all solutions have been exhausted over a serious conflict. That is the way of the world and always has been.

 

[Flashy]

Russia and China will not allow a military intervention, especially china.

it's not really up to them...they do not determine what we are "allowed" to do militarily.
They are precisely the problem, as they are pushing us towards the military solution by not assisting in stopping this madness. They did the same thing with North Korea.

and considering the Russian intervention in Georgia, they are not in any position to lecture anyone.

 

[SilverTrain]

so much for brevity...much more than your usual two line snipe at everything and anyone you dislike or disagree with.

i am sorry if you have such a problem with a concise, thought out, 8 paragraph post that covers the angles of a potential military strike on Iran.

As for audacious condescension, you really are not one to talk. The history of your 1 or 2 line snitty, nasty condescension or insults can be rather easily found.

Apparently, audacious condescension is only acceptable if it is in quip form.

As for "sheltered beyond belief", i find that amusing...privileged? Yes. Fortunate? yes. Sheltered? Sorry. Not even close.

As for positing "fact" as something that is no more than opinion, sorry, but you have proven nothing to the contrary. Everything i say, in this thread regarding, for example, Iranian military comparisons, is *FACT* based, on endless discussions with my cousin, who, is a member of the Israeli Defense Forces, and by my other relatives and friends who are former members of said organization.

The fact is, that i know far more than you on the topic of military strategy in the middle east then you do, after a lifetime of being exposed to it by people who actually are a part of it.

that is not an opinion...that, my bellicose friend of brevity, is a fact.

as for my "brazen disregard for everyone else's feelings", i will have to attempt to reconcile that insult from a poster who has dished out plenty of that to all manner of poster here, myself included, even though i have never once shot a nasty word your way, as i have said over and over on this forum, for one reason, and one reason only...yet you still feel compelled to attack me with brazen disregard for my feelings, even though you know i never respond, when you know i have gone out of my way to never say one specifically bad word against you ever, because of your advice on one incident.

So i am sorry...but my "brazen disregard" does, in fact have limits...and my dealings with you here are proof that "brazen disregard" is not, my MO...since i clearly do not disregard everything nor am i brazen about it.

Once again, i am sorry if you do not like the response, but when someone as brazenly and willfully unconcerned with others' feelings begins pontificating about that problem in others, the accusation begins to ring a bit stale.

Since i have no desire to fight with you, and have always gone out of my way to avoid that, i see no other alternative but to go back to not responding to your constant attacks whenever they come, after this one particular response.

Dude. Not even. Any of it.

Give me a break. Don't go with the victim thing. It's not going to work, coming on the heels of the 4 gazillion posts in which you've snarkily attacked all manner of other people for having the "gall" to post even the most minutely querulous replies to your PROCLAMATIONS FROM ON HIGH.

I have no respect for your "knowledge" as it all appears to be nothing more than a bunch of loudly and verbosely rendered opinions. And they're the same opinions, over and over. Which is fine. Have them. Nurture them. Enjoy them.

But cease with the attempts at sagely dissertation. There's no market for it. Nada. Trust me.

And yeah, I'm the bad guy for pointing it out. Happens sometimes. I don't relish it.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

you have no options, you have no solutions to present, the Iranians are thumbing their noses, and they are running the *EXACT* same playbook that they learned from the North Koreans to achieve their goal of a nuclear weapons program.

Not I, the world has no "winning" solution, otherwise the situation would not still exist.

 

[D_Alastair Pisspoore]

The struggle with the North Koreans over their nuclear program is going on 20 years now. The West is foolish if they think the Iranian nuclear situation will be resolved soon. Like flashy said, the North Koreans have taught the rest of the world well.

 

[TomCat84]

Is the US able to be self sufficient in food and energy for example?<

Yes, at least with food. California alone grows enough food to feed the entire United States. Energy is another story. We have a lot of coal and natural gas. California has some oil deposits off the coast, and of course could use solar power in a lot of its cities and deserts. Parts of the US would be suitable for geothermal....and power from the motion of waves is possible.

 

[Flashy]

Dude. Not even. Any of it.

Give me a break. Don't go with the victim thing. It's not going to work, coming on the heels of the 4 gazillion posts in which you've snarkily attacked all manner of other people for having the "gall" to post even the most minutely querulous replies to your PROCLAMATIONS FROM ON HIGH.

I have no respect for your "knowledge" as it all appears to be nothing more than a bunch of loudly and verbosely rendered opinions. And they're the same opinions, over and over. Which is fine. Have them. Nurture them. Enjoy them.

But cease with the attempts at sagely dissertation. There's no market for it. Nada. Trust me.

And yeah, I'm the bad guy for pointing it out. Happens sometimes. I don't relish it.

LOL...there goes your brevity...

let's take a look at some of your "brazen disregard" for others' feelings.

just recently, you of course had something condescending, and typically brief, to say to someone who had done nothing wrong, but misspell a posters user name (actually he misspelled two, but you in your compassionate nature, only took him to task for one)

http://www.lpsg.org/2608957-post54.html

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you also earlier went after the same poster, who had done nothing but be reasonable, and had never even made a statement to you...you simply chose to be nasty and showed "brazen disregard" for his feelings, immediately insulting him, for nothing

http://www.lpsg.org/2608853-post45.html

---

of course you had something nasty to say regarding the Oprah thread, and of course you threw a shot in there at Sgt Torpedo, who i am no fan of, but of course you spared nobodies feelings

http://www.lpsg.org/2605235-post23.html

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of course you were so non condescending here as well

http://www.lpsg.org/2599353-post21.html

---

Then i got tired since that was only in your last 20 posts or so, and there is only so much posturing bullshit i can take from someone so blinkered to his own obnoxious, self-absorbed and brazen insults and "opinions"



Spare me your hypocrisy, Silver Train...i would think you wouldn't even be able to see my opinions you dislike so much, considering yours are always upfront and center in your mind as the be all end all of wisdom and the centerpiece of your parade of nastiness, condescension and sniping, though they are, to your credit, only briefly obnoxious.

and back we go, to me ignoring you.

it was nice talking to you for the first time in months.

 

[Flashy]

Not I, the world has no "winning" solution, otherwise the situation would not still exist.

so you are not part of the world now?

the fact is, there is only one solution left, and that is where the Iranians have left it..."We are on our way to a nuclear weapons program...just like North Korea...we are not stopping...stop us if you dare".

there are no options left.

 

[TomCat84]

Are you suggesting that the dollar is looking good in the longterm? If you are that's quite laughable.

I would argue yes. While the US's problems int he short term seem quite large, I think we can dig ourselves out of it. We will be forced to cut military spending to help cut the deficit- but hey, the Europeans will be forced to deeply cut their social programs, while at the same time raising military spending to help offset the US military decline. Why? Most European countries are declining in terms of natural population- ie births minus deaths, while the US is gaining in this area- to say nothing about natural immigration. The EU will get older and older, while the US gets older slightly slower- while gaining a lot of young people.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

so you are not part of the world now?

If my meaning escaped you, I won't bother to clarify.

the fact is, there is only one solution left, and that is where the Iranians have left it..."We are on our way to a nuclear weapons program...just like North Korea...we are not stopping...stop us if you dare".

there are no options left.

To me that seems like limited thinking, and if it were that simple, the action would have already been taken. However, we certainly can agree to disagree on the subject.

 

[D_Alastair Pisspoore]

I would argue yes. While the US's problems int he short term seem quite large, I think we can dig ourselves out of it. We will be forced to cut military spending to help cut the deficit- but hey, the Europeans will be forced to deeply cut their social programs, while at the same time raising military spending to help offset the US military decline. Why? Most European countries are declining in terms of natural population- ie births minus deaths, while the US is gaining in this area- to say nothing about natural immigration. The EU will get older and older, while the US gets older slightly slower- while gaining a lot of young people.

I do not see the U.S. defense budget decreasing anytime in the near future. The U.S. economy is so dependent on defense spending that's why there is always resistance to budget cuts.

 

[Drifterwood]

Very interesting. But where is the connection between trading in Euros and a US military strike to take out a nuclear programme?

 

[dandelion]

Iran has been begging for an ass whooping for years now....Of course, the invasion of Iraq had little to do with Saddam and the Euro and a strike on Iran will have little to do with their relationship with the Euro as weel. It will just be another coincidence.

There is no established explanation for why the US invaded Iraq. All sorts of explanations have been made, but no official explanation stands up. They terrorised some of their people, but hey, even the US dabbles in that now. They refused to do anything the international community wanted, burt nothing unusual about that either. they had nothing to do with international terrorism or anything much outside their own borders and were pretty much bottled up. My favourite explanation was that Bush jr wanted to do something Bush sr. hadnt. But that is probably too petty even for politicians. So the only answer seems to be oil, money, and yes, a major wourld financial block moving over to the euro.

The invasion of Iraq did not go well. the US has made some more enemies who are now busy trying to get revenge and will carry on. The invasion of Iran is hardly likely to go any better. Any military attacks will certainly make more enemies, and will consolidate support for the current fundamentalist government which is looking a bit shaky. It would confirm the country as an enemy of the west, but maybe the US would see that as a good thing. Iran becoming friendly with europe is hardly to be contemplated. Better to have a bloodbath there, just so long as the oil keeps pumping. Paradoxical, isnt it, that the US may prefer the fundamentalists to run the country because they make more believable enemies.

Flashy is right, we have no choice and we absolutely CAN NOT ALLOW IRAN to get a nuclear bomb.

Bit of a rear-guard action this. The technology becomes more accessible to everyone every day. The more the US bullies, the more it becomes possible that an Iranian government might attempt a nuclear attack on the US. When the UK was developing its own bomb the US decided it would be better to give us theirs on condition we stopped our own independent development work. I guess they thought the idea of invading the UK was just too embarassing. Probably also impractical and they liked using the Uk as a forward base in Europe.

The absolute last thing that this country needs now is to strike Iran pre-emptively... but we just have no choice.

of course you have choice! The US is rich and just about as independent as a country can be nowadays. If you accept that other countries have a right to live how they want and stop terrorising the world to get what you want, life would be much smoother.

I do not see the U.S. defense budget decreasing anytime in the near future. The U.S. economy is so dependent on defense spending that's why there is always resistance to budget cuts.

They say that about bankers now too. What about, if you are in a hole, stop digging? Did any american benefit from making those weapons? makes you wonder how some township in the middle of Texas could possible carry on if it wasnt for its share of national armaments production which it uses for, er, er, nothing?