Iran trading in Euros/Yen and US's response

[midlifebear]

Well, to be fair, in Starpooper's world it's perfectly OK to lock employees in sweat shops (or chain them to their workstations) for 12 to 14 hours and pay them enough they make about the same a one Dollar a day. Yes, that is truly capitalism at its finest.

One of the more interesting groups of societies I remember learning about in my freshman political science class were the people of Micronesia. Before first being enslaved by the Japanese during WWiI they ended up living in "poor" conditions on welfare under the administration of the USA as part of the Trust Territory of the Pacific. They no longer fished the waters for their own food. Instead, they used monthly checks from the USA to buy canned foods from Japan and other Asian countries. The were discouraged to build their own, traditional palm thatched housing and encouraged to live in concrete-like bunkers provided by the USA.

Once the native clans began to wrest back control of their islands from the USA (which had and still does pour millions into "development aid" into the area), they quickly raised their own standard of living back to what it had originally been prior to being occupied by Japan and the USA.

However, the USA left them one gift that could have been eradicated, but wasn't: leprosy. Leprosy has been a curable disease since the early 1960s. But for some reason, the USA was fast and loose with all sorts of money and aid except the drugs and medical assistance to eradicate leprosy.

Just imagine, Starpooper, having a palm-thatched hut with electricity and indoor plumbing, fresh water, and not having to live in your mother's basement? And only having fresh fish, fruit, and vegetables to eat? Yeah, major substandard third-world living.

 

[dandelion]

Dandy - you cannot take a third world country and bring them up to the standards of a developed nation overnight. The workers don't have any skills. They need jobs/income. The only thing there is to get them started is in manufacturing, textiles, etc.

Why do you presume any one is trying to? Suits developed countries for them to stay as they are.

Not true. If you take someone who is starving and unemployed - and give him a job, you are not 'exploiting' him. Ask his wife and kids who now can afford to eat and provide a home/shelter for their children - if they think they are being 'exploited.'

I would suggest you explain to them that anyone working in your country would get paid 100 times as much, that you have absolutely no intention of paying the same, and then ask again if they think they are being exploited. A bit hard to claim the US is trying to be fair.

 

[B_starinvestor]

Why do you presume any one is trying to? Suits developed countries for them to stay as they are.

I would suggest you explain to them that anyone working in your country would get paid 100 times as much, that you have absolutely no intention of paying the same, and then ask again if they think they are being exploited. A bit hard to claim the US is trying to be fair.

But are they better off without the jobs?

10% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

 

[B_nyvin]

But are they better off without the jobs?

10% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

In most cases they would be better off without the jobs yes, in the cases that were mentioned anyway

 

[dandelion]

But are they better off without the jobs?

10% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

That depends. Isnt this a bit like slavery? Is it right to make a person a slave, whether you call it that or not? Most people would say not if it was them.

The guy on 10% may not starve, but do you reckon he will love you or hate you?

This is the use of economic power to get something at less than its true value to you from someone who has no economic power to force a fair bargain. That is how the system works, but don't pretent it is anything other than the exercise of imperial might. Notice how the developed countries start screaming when one of the undeveloped starts to turn the tables, for example China manipulating its currency to flood the US with cheap goods. The chinese know they are being underpaid but they are seeking to destroy US manufacturing and get a longer term victory.

 

[eurotop40]

1. That depends. Isnt this a bit like slavery? Is it right to make a person a slave, whether you call it that or not? Most people would say not if it was them.
The guy on 10% may not starve, but do you reckon he will love you or hate you?
This is the use of economic power to get something at less than its true value to you from someone who has no economic power to force a fair bargain. That is how the system works, but don't pretent it is anything other than the exercise of imperial might.

2. Notice how the developed countries start screaming when one of the undeveloped starts to turn the tables, for example China manipulating its currency to flood the US with cheap goods. The chinese know they are being underpaid but they are seeking to destroy US manufacturing and get a longer term victory.

1. The anglo-saxon world is still using concepts and methods of the nineteenth century (industrial revolution).
2. The greed of US managers will eventually chew them up.

 

[B_starinvestor]

1. The anglo-saxon world is still using concepts and methods of the nineteenth century (industrial revolution).
2. The greed of US managers will eventually chew them up.

In any segment of society - anywhere - you will always see instances of greed.

But I would argue that the basis of capitalism - for the most part - is built on ambition and innovation.

Further, that China/India/Korea et al, as they continue to dominate manufacturing, will continue to raise the standards of living as well.

Rome wasn't built in day..

 

[tripod]

Some serious shit is goin' down in Iran right now as we speak.

 

[tomthelad91]

The Euro is the worlds biggest currency.
• 501 million live in the EU
• 308 million live in the USA

• €12.705 Trillion is the GDP of the EU
• €10.484 Trillion is the GDP of the USA

The US Dollar is no longer the worlds Biggest Currency; hence why should Oil be sold in US Dollars?

 

[B_starinvestor]

The Euro is the worlds biggest currency.
• 501 million live in the EU
• 308 million live in the USA

• €12.705 Trillion is the GDP of the EU
• €10.484 Trillion is the GDP of the USA

The US Dollar is no longer the worlds Biggest Currency; hence why should Oil be sold in US Dollars?

The $ is still perceived to be more stable/safe.

 

[Jason]

The $ is still perceived to be more stable/safe.

Yes. The EWI Stable Currency Index comprises:
1) Swiss Franc
2) Singapore Dollar
3) NZ Dollar
4) US Dollar

The US dollar is now on a downward trend, but this is something different to a stability concern. We all expect the USA to continue to exist with a currency.

By contrast the Euro is presently hit by "stability concens" (Sarkozy). We now have the intervention of "what if" thinking. What if the problems in Greece, Spain and elsewhere split the Euro? I don't think anyone can say there is zero risk of this happening - and there are some (eg George Soros, many reporters in the Wall Street Journal) who see a split as more likely than not. There are plenty of informed people who think that the Eurozone as it presently exists will not continue.

Iran trading in Euros rather than US dollars is ... interesting. It introduces an additionally element of volatility. If they switch to the Euro and stay switched then fine, but if they sudenly switch out of the Euro this could cause real problems within the Eurozone.

 

[eurotop40]

The Euro is the worlds biggest currency.
• 501 million live in the EU
• 308 million live in the USA

• €12.705 Trillion is the GDP of the EU
• €10.484 Trillion is the GDP of the USA

The US Dollar is no longer the worlds Biggest Currency; hence why should Oil be sold in US Dollars?

With the exchange rate € / US$ it is probably still better for the Eurozone that oil is traded in US$.

 

[Jason]

With the exchange rate € / US$ it is probably still better for the Eurozone that oil is traded in US$.

I think it is better for the whole world. Markets like the status quo, and there's enough instability around without the issues here.

Iran's action has the potential to damage the US. But it also has the potential to damage the Eurozone. There are real stresses at the moment, and large numbers of petro-euro sloshing around could be problematic. Iran is in effect building up reserves of euro - if it sells them suddenly it would be economic warfare. This must surely lead the Eurozone to argue against any US intervention in Iran. Maybe it is the EU that should be most concerned.