Is College Worth It? What do you think?

breeze

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My original plan was to be a journalist (which my B.A. would have helped me achieve had I decided to stick with it), but in the end I ended up working in the field of specialized adult education. Again, I can't comment on what the situation is like in the U.S. In Canada, it seems that there is more opportunity, but again it varies greatly (especially in my field) on the province that you live in. The funny thing is that I fell into my field. It was never my plan to work in specialized adult education until after I had finished my degree, but my B.A. gave me the flexibility to do so. I am now looking at getting into film production as a "second career" because it's something I'm very fascinated by. I have been toying with the idea of going back to university. If I decide to do it, my B.A. offers me the flexibility to do so. I had the student loan burden when I finished my degree as well. It took me 9 years to pay it back. I didn't take out student loans when I did my post degree studies because I decided not to go down that road again so I worked full time and studied part time to finish it. It took longer, but I graduated debt free from my post-degree studies. That's always an option as well. If I had to do my degree again, I would work full-time and study part-time. There's nothing fun about student debt. Good luck! :smile:
Excellent choice, excellent suggestion { don't know much about an education/teaching major though but sounds good } and insight. I would have rather spent my time hanging around hollywood{since you mentioned films} than berkeley. Thanks.
 

lafever

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Based on your personal experience- what do you think?

cost:benefit
Ask the guy who started Facebook if college is worth it, he dropped out to start & run the company.
With that being said, it was him being enrolled in college classes & his studies that taught him to go for it and follow his dreams.
C.
 
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BigD_2

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That's a common, but untrue myth here in Canada as well. I know that the U.S. has fared worse than Canada with the global recession, so maybe that is why it's harder for liberal arts grads to find good jobs. I have an Honors Bachelor of Arts degree, and the opportunities that were open to me with that degree were endless. You do have to specialize in something after your degree (like I did), but once you have, the opportunities are limitless. The fields that I could have entered with my degree were teaching (as you mentioned), law, public service, broadcasting, publishing, etc.

I think if you have an aptitude and/or interest in math/sciences/engineering, you really should try to go for that as there are more and better jobs, generally speaking. But, who is the 1% that people are talking about so much now in the US? Mostly corporate CEOs, which are people with MBAs. The PhD chemists (Angela Merkel excluded, maybe)(look it up!) aren't the ones with the *huge* salaries, either.

That being said, I went to a small liberal arts college and have a core group of great friends who all graduated from there. I majored in Chemistry, my career has been good, though I don't exactly do chemistry these days, and I was unemployed for 9 months in 2008. One friend majored in Spanish. She has a great career in the benefit management industry. One friend double majored in Spanish and Theatre, became a teacher, then started his own educational services company. One double majored in Philosophy and Religious Studies. Not that long after we graduated he got a job as an office manager at an architecture/engineering firm, liked it, and soon became a certified urban planner and still works at the same company. One double majored in Government and piano performance and is now a (well-paid) lawyer. One majored in economics, eventually became a CPA, and works as the head finance guy at a small company. Etc Etc.

We all seem fairly happy, and one thing that's interesting about us is, we're all not quite using what we majored in exactly (and I've got many more college friends and acquaintances who are in the same boat). Some of us are closer to our major, and some further away, but I can tell you this, I know of no one from my college who is working pumping gas or serving French Fries.

One line my college was big on selling was that with a liberal arts education "you learn how to learn." We may have thought that was BS at the time but there *is* something to that. In today's job market one of the *key* things to do, in an interview and once you get the job, is communicate well and get along with people. You could be the best chemical engineer in the world but if you're abrasive and obnoxious, or if you can't write a good report or give a good presentation, you won't last long in many places.

As others have mentioned, some of these lessons are learned outside the classroom during college. Some of that stuff is even more important than that "book learning" stuff. If I need to know the electronegativity of calcium I'll go look it up. If I need a friend to talk to, I can't just look one up in a book - but I know I have ones I can call on the telephone.
 
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breeze

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I think if you have an aptitude and/or interest in math/sciences/engineering, you really should try to go for that as there are more and better jobs, generally speaking. But, who is the 1% that people are talking about so much now in the US? Mostly corporate CEOs, which are people with MBAs. The PhD chemists (Angela Merkel excluded, maybe)(look it up!) aren't the ones with the *huge* salaries, either.

That being said, I went to a small liberal arts college and have a core group of great friends who all graduated from there. I majored in Chemistry, my career has been good, though I don't exactly do chemistry these days, and I was unemployed for 9 months in 2008. One friend majored in Spanish. She has a great career in the benefit management industry. One friend double majored in Spanish and Theatre, became a teacher, then started his own educational services company. One double majored in Philosophy and Religious Studies. Not that long after we graduated he got a job as an office manager at an architecture/engineering firm, liked it, and soon became a certified urban planner and still works at the same company. One double majored in Government and piano performance and is now a (well-paid) lawyer. One majored in economics, eventually became a CPA, and works as the head finance guy at a small company. Etc Etc.

We all seem fairly happy, and one thing that's interesting about us is, we're all not quite using what we majored in exactly (and I've got many more college friends and acquaintances who are in the same boat). Some of us are closer to our major, and some further away, but I can tell you this, I know of no one from my college who is working pumping gas or serving French Fries.

One line my college was big on selling was that with a liberal arts education "you learn how to learn." We may have thought that was BS at the time but there *is* something to that. In today's job market one of the *key* things to do, in an interview and once you get the job, is communicate well and get along with people. You could be the best chemical engineer in the world but if you're abrasive and obnoxious, or if you can't write a good report or give a good presentation, you won't last long in many places.

As others have mentioned, some of these lessons are learned outside the classroom during college. Some of that stuff is even more important than that "book learning" stuff. If I need to know the electronegativity of calcium I'll go look it up. If I need a friend to talk to, I can't just look one up in a book - but I know I have ones I can call on the telephone.
You and your friends have good luck and skills.
The New York Times
Student Loans
The overall default rate is 8.8% but it rises to 15% for profit colleges.{are these 2 year vocational schools or most colleges in general?} However the project on student defaults stated " The extent of borrowing distress is barely touched upon with these rates." For every default 2 other students have fallen behind. {that would increase distressed borrowers to between 27% to 45%} Only 37& of students pay back their loans on time { but you can figure some are rich , others didn't pay much/stayed only a year or 2 and engineering/accounting graduates{and others} have well paying jobs/what if you don't fall in these categories? } But hasn't the government relaxed the requirements or timetable for paying back student loans ?{ a longer time to pay back the loans, work programs / without these it would even be worse } The consequences of defaulting include wage garishment and not being able to borrow for cars and houses. In fact it goes on your credit record and some employers won't hire you and some landlords won't rent to you.
BUT listen carefully!!!! No one has to default because the government has in place an income based repayment program but you have to APPLY for it. In other words you only pay what you can afford. If you're unemployed you don't have to make payments.
 

PussyWellington

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I ask myself this question frequently. I am currently in the middle of an expensive Masters, which I am paying for myself as I can't get government funding.

I consider my undergraduate degree worth it. I'm not working in that field but I did learn many valuable skills, and had a great time!

Education is never wasted, in my opinion.

I do however, worry about the current state of tertiary education. It's a great shame that only the 'rich' can afford to study the Arts.

My advice is to go to college but don't take any loans. Do it part time, work and pay as you go. It will take longer but you will be debt free when you finally graduate.

A degree will create more options, and that is what you need in the current economic climate.
 

breeze

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I ask myself this question frequently. I am currently in the middle of an expensive Masters, which I am paying for myself as I can't get government funding.

I consider my undergraduate degree worth it. I'm not working in that field but I did learn many valuable skills, and had a great time!

Education is never wasted, in my opinion.

I do however, worry about the current state of tertiary education. It's a great shame that only the 'rich' can afford to study the Arts.

My advice is to go to college but don't take any loans. Do it part time, work and pay as you go. It will take longer but you will be debt free when you finally graduate.

A degree will create more options, and that is what you need in the current economic climate.
This stuff is complicated. In the united states there are different tiers of colleges. I don't think at places like harvard and stanford they allow part time students { maybe at the graduate level }. And they are expensive. I think the tutition at stanford is 50,000 a year. Unless you're rich you going to have to take out loans. But stanford has or used to have a program where they paid all expenses if you were accepted but didn't have the money. And there's no partying at these schools. You study 10 hours a day at least. At berkeley i ran across students who studied or stayed up 72 straight hours for finals.
On the other hand { now i've never ever seen the campus } i wouldn't have minded going to lets say long beach state in socal. The beach , warm sunny days , tanned leggy blondes , a reasonable workload , a party atmosphere { i guess/no offense } , relatively cheap and a degree as good as most. No nobel prize winners here though.
 

rbkwp

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dont envy, Americans in particular
education seems a mainstay of life
NZers even Australians dare i say it , can get away with minimal education
Industry work or especially Agriculture are to the forefront
depends on your calling as well huh?
 

PussyWellington

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I don't think at places like harvard and stanford they allow part time students { maybe at the graduate level }. And they are expensive. I think the tutition at stanford is 50,000 a year.

That's just it. Not everyone can afford to study at Harvard or Stanford. Why do you have to study at a 'brand' name university? As I said, there are other options.
 

patrick222

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There is a fine line between becomming educated and learning a trade. A fine education without a marketable skill will provide a champagne mind and a beer pocket book. A high paying job with no education will prove a fat wallet and no taste for the finer things in life.
 

b.c.

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Another way one might ask this question is "do I need to go to college?" Because the answer depends on the trade or profession. For some, a college degree is an absolute must, if not a masters or a doctorate.

For others it becomes a question whether you can become employed without the degree and move up by way of years of experience, years which you might spend paying to get a degree instead of earning money. Look into your options.

Oh, and another thing... NEVER GET A GOVERNMENT STUDENT LOAN. You'll be sorry.
 

dude_007

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I think college is worth it for sure, and why not get a government student loan? It is the lowest interest loan available. I did it and I am not sorry.

Just goes to show you that everyone has a different experience so really you only have to listen to yourself to know the true answer for you. Let go of fear and ask yourself the same question.
 

breeze

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That's just it. Not everyone can afford to study at Harvard or Stanford. Why do you have to study at a 'brand' name university? As I said, there are other options.
That's true there are other options. And its hard to say but if you're going to college to find a high paying job it seems to some degree that some coroporations , investment banks , banks , management consulting firms , law firms etc.etc. recruit only or primarily at brand schools like stanford. {again the tier system the united states has} Even then only probably a small number of students at those brand colleges find high paying jobs. { top 10% theory} But for somethng like engineering/accounting it might not make much of a difference where you go if its accredited. I believe college recruiting { companies recruiting seniors on campus for jobs } is dominated by engineering companies/jobs.
 

breeze

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Dailyfinance/AP
Student Loans
"The Recovery is Threatened by Runaway Student Loan Debt"

It may be worst than we think. The average student graduates with 25,000 in student loans and in the opinion of mark zadii of moody's " they're not going to be able to get off the hook ". A white house spokesman or sanders just stated recently that students without specials skills are having a rough time finding jobs. {liberal arts} Student loans have surged passed one trillion dollars surpassing credit and auto loan debt. Student loans " jeopardize the fragile economy and burden the taxpayers " { including parents} " and set the stage for the next financial crisis ". Obama stated " we'll run out of money".{for student loans} William brewer president of bankruptcy attorneys foresees a wave of student bankruptcies. I've read that because they're backed by the governemt its not as severe as the bank crisis but everyone seems to have a different opinion.
 

EagleCowboy

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I'm back in school for the 3rd time again.
The first time I got a degree in Criminal Justice and was able to use it immediately for 10 years. Quit because I go so tired of dealing with genuinely stupid people! (one can only take so much stupidity)

A few years later I went back and started a degree I wanted to start with the first time. Had to pay for it as I went, as I DID NOT want a loan (of which I *MORE* than qualified for) and didn't know how to go about getting grants of any kind. But I let my job get in the way and never finished it.

Now, I'm taking courses online and paying for it as I go, and also making sure that I don't let the job get in the way this time. The problem is, the Electrical and Computer Engineering degree I'm working towards is strictly a "hands on" course, so when I'm done with all my online classes, I'll have to move to where there's a physical college. The problem with that is I'll need a job when I get there to pay for it. And in college towns, jobs that pay the rent, living expenses, AND college are pretty much non-existent.

So my questions are:

Is there a reputable online college that I can take ALL the courses for Electrical and Computer engineering? (haven't found one yet)

How and where does one apply for grants?
 

D_Jacqueline_Boozanne

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For a career where I live, I think a college diploma is the sweet spot. The education isn't too costly, the amount of time you must dedicate is reasonable, and they are fairly practical to seize a job with.

By contrast, an undergraduate university degree affords a bleak outcome. Very rarely did any of my friends manage to get a job within their respective field, and even then the sum they were making wasn't enough to offset the initial investment. I truly believe the only way University will pay you back is if you pursue it to the fullest extent and plan on getting your Masters at the very least.

Knowledge gained is certainly an asset and a confidence boost no matter what the education, but if you're looking to future finances and a career, careful planning is a necessity. Even then I would question the outcome since you really don't know what you're getting into until you're finally there, and that's something that can take 4-8 years of education before you really even begin to climb the ladder.
 

D_Ebensneezer_Spooge

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If you havent used your degree at least once...that may be a waste. I keep my licsensing current even if Im not using it at the time ( just in case I want to go back into the field ). Also in this economy, I personally think an Ivy-League education (and tuition price) is a lot less significant than before. Im glad I attend a state university and will pay in 3 years what a private university student pays in one year. Lets not even mentions the CC transer route which saves you even hundreds more. Loans can always be deferred if youre at least half time and they even give you a grace period after graduation. Education is worth it, just do the cost effective options and pick a major that will maximize your earning potential upon graduation or it may be money wasted.
 

breeze

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The problem with getting a college degree or rather a liberal arts degree isn't student loans per say. If you get a loan or pay the cost yourself at the end of the day its the same thing. Its time and money out of your pocket though done differently and maybe in a better way. And if you can pay college costs it shows you can afford to go to college. The average amount a graduate ownes , which is 25,000, isn't that much in today's world especially when its spread out over 10 , 20 years etc.
The problems are college costs and the job market. There are colleges which are affordable. But many aren't especially the top colleges. At the current rate if you get a phd from berkeley you're probably looking at $250,000 - 500,000 in student loans. But that doesn't apply to most graduates. What does apply is the job market. There wouldn't be a student loan crisis threatening to sent the economy into another recession if there were enough high paying jobs for all or most college graduates especially in the liberal arts. Obviously there aren't. Even only a $5,000 student loan is a lot if you're unemployed.
 

breeze

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This is nothing new and as it turns out a ticking timebomb. As far as i can remember and talking to a lot of people a liberal art degree from either berkeley or stanford was always basically worthless in the bay area { there were exceptions of course , teaching , going to law school , getting lucky , sales, office jobs{especially suited for females} finding a government job etc. but the number of jobs in these fields is relatively small/average salary/not college level }. Of course software engineers were striking gold in the silicon valley. But until clinton or someone restructured the time period for student loans to be paid back and UCB/college here was basically free student loan default rates were still approaching 80&. Even when the unemployment rate was supposely only 2% in san francisco i would hear stories of berkeley graduates with liberal art degrees getting laughed at when they applied for jobs. This was when tom brokaw was on nbc stating a college degree will get you a good job , or a woman on the business report stating those expensive college costs will result in rewards{so write those big checks parents} or all those tv shows, such as dr.phil, showing those adults still living with their parents. It wasn't the economy stupid these were just losers.{if you didn't have a good job cause they are plenty/unemployment was only 2% back then/the real unemployment rate is/was much higher} It is the economy/job market. There aren't enough jobs and there aren't enough high paying jobs. PERIOD. There is a theory that the stock market is a means to transfering wealth from the middle class to the 1% and with hedge funds and supercomputer trading i sort of believe it. The sort same of thing is happening with the rising cost of colleges. It is different is some ways and we absolutely need our colleges but its complicated. Don't know the end game.