Is Dr. Fauci A Saint?

MisterB

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Dr. Fauci is an educated medical professional who simply did his job under difficult and trying circumstances.

I do think he was well suited for what he did, especially since he'd dealt with the HIV/Aids crisis beginning in the 1980s. As it was not the first time he ran up against science/medicine ignorance of political leaders.

IMO, Dr. Fauci should be celebrated for doing the best he could do and did under very trying working conditions with a President who was never interested in the science or medicine behind the pandemic.

The strength and fortitude Dr. Fauci demonstrated during the last year of the prior Administration is admirable. Not everyone could have or would have endured what he experienced. I think this is why he is so well regarded by both the American public and now within the new Administration.

While I can understand your assigning Dr. Fauci such a platitude, technically he is not a saint. At least not in the manner I've understood this term to have religious connotations.
 

BussyPhilipps

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Dr. Fauci is an educated medical professional who simply did his job under difficult and trying circumstances.

I do think he was well suited for what he did, especially since he'd dealt with the HIV/Aids crisis beginning in the 1980s. As it was not the first time he ran up against science/medicine ignorance of political leaders.

IMO, Dr. Fauci should be celebrated for doing the best he could do and did under very trying working conditions with a President who was never interested in the science or medicine behind the pandemic.

The strength and fortitude Dr. Fauci demonstrated during the last year of the prior Administration is admirable. Not everyone could have or would have endured what he experienced. I think this is why he is so well regarded by both the American public and now within the new Administration.

While I can understand your assigning Dr. Fauci such a platitude, technically he is not a saint. At least not in the manner I've understood this term to have religious connotations.
But maybe not physically harming Trump in the face of all of his lies despite the probable urge to do so counts as a miracle? And being the only person in Trump’s orbit to not ruin their reputation can count as the second miracle? He could have become a sycophant like Dr. Birx, yet he managed not to do so despite all the death threats he and his family received.
 

halcyondays

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Early on Fauci said it wasn't here don't worry about it. Was China and/or WHO lying to him? Did he assume they'd contain it in E Asia it like they did with the first SARS? That they knew what they were doing?

Even the pros make mistakes sometimes.You can only be as good as the information you get. It's going to take a long time to unpack this disease.

I wouldn't call him a saint but he showed great courage sticking to the facts while Trump and his sycophants spouted all kinds of disinformation.
 
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BussyPhilipps

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Early on Fauci said it wasn't here don't worry about it. Was China and/or WHO lying to him? Did he assume they'd contain it in E Asia it like they did with the first SARS? That they knew what they were doing?

Even the pros make mistakes sometimes.You can only be as good as the information you get. It's going to take a long time to unpack this disease.

I wouldn't call him a saint but he showed great courage sticking to the facts while Trump and his sycophants spouted all kinds of disinformation.
I don’t remember Fauci saying not to worry about it. Source?
 

BussyPhilipps

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Took five seconds to look up. Hard to forget.
You kind of misrepresented what he said and took it out of context. Yes, he said “Don’t worry about it,” but this was in mid-February, 3-4 weeks before the WHO declared it a pandemic. He also said things could change and that it “could evolve into a global pandemic, which would then have significant implications for us.” I don’t think he and other scientists knew how widespread the virus already was. It moved faster than they expected, partly because China lied, like you said.

Do you identify as a liberal or a leftist/progressive? I think you’ve mentioned before that you’re a progressive. The reason I ask is I’ve noticed on Twitter that leftists/progressives have been more critical of Fauci than liberals. I even saw that some progressive journalist recently wrote an article faulting him for his handling of the pandemic and claiming that his reputation shouldn’t be unscathed in contrast to Dr. Birx, who has been raked over the coals. He says everyone involved in this country’s handling of the pandemic is responsible for its failure. I think the author is sanctimonious and overly critical/harsh, though. He’s not a scientist himself, and does he actually have the nerve to think he would have done a better job if he had been in Fauci’s position, dealing with Trump and the ensuing death threats he and his family received? Here’s the article: Doctor Do-Little
 

halcyondays

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Identify? lol... well I've been a registered Democrat since I first voted in 1980. To me liberal = progressive = political left. I'm only leftist when I march in the streets. ;)

I voted for Bernie Sanders in the last two Democratic presidential primaries. No national candidate has matched my political views as closely as he. (A possible exception was George McGovern in 1972... and while I couldn't vote for him then as a kid I did work as a local volunteer on his campaign.)

I don't use Twitter, Reddit, Facebook or any other social media (say yaz boomer!) to follow political debate so I can't opine on the differences of which you speak. However it is my opinion that no one is above criticism. No one gets a free pass just because they're on my side. IMO the left is far more critical of itself than the right--a major strength the left has over the right.

Check out the Frontline documentary which played this week on PBS on China's COVID Secrets. Much of the blame for the escape of SARS2 from China rests on the CCP. Once they fucked up it was too late to stop the pandemic. It reminds me of the Soviet coverup of the Chernobyl disaster in 1986.

I don't "saint" anyone. Putting people on pedestals--especially politicians--is dangerous. IMO people on the right are more likely to do this than people on the left. A couple decades ago Trump himself said if he ever ran for president he'd run as a Republican because they have the dumbest voters. He's incapable of appealing to anyone's intelligence so he tells monstrous lies then doubles down on them ad infinitum--the very definition of propaganda.
 
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BussyPhilipps

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Identify? lol... well I've been a registered Democrat since I first voted in 1980. To me liberal = progressive = political left. I'm only leftist when I march in the streets. ;)

I voted for Bernie Sanders in the last two Democratic presidential primaries. No national candidate has matched my political views as closely as he. (A possible exception was George McGovern in 1972... and while I couldn't vote for him then as a kid I did work as a local volunteer on his campaign.)

I don't use Twitter, Reddit, Facebook or any other social media (say yaz boomer!) to follow political debate so I can't opine on the differences of which you speak. However it is my opinion that no one is above criticism. No one gets a free pass just because they're on my side. IMO the left is far more critical of itself than the right--a major strength the left has over the right.

Check out the Frontline documentary which played this week on PBS on China's COVID Secrets. Much of the blame for the escape of SARS2 from China rests on the CCP. Once they fucked up it was too late to stop the pandemic. It reminds me of the Soviet coverup of the Chernobyl disaster in 1986.

I don't "saint" anyone. Putting people on pedestals--especially politicians--is dangerous. IMO people on the right are more likely to do this than people on the left. A couple decades ago Trump himself said if he ever ran for president he'd run as a Republican because they have the dumbest voters. He's incapable of appealing to anyone's intelligence so he tells monstrous lies then doubles down on them ad infinitum--the very definition of propaganda.
I’m a liberal, but only semi-progressive. I think most progressives are too idealistic and not pragmatic enough. I consider myself a pragmatic progressive, so in-between a centrist and a progressive.

I actually think those of us on the left are TOO critical of our own. We’re always tearing our Democratic politicians down and fighting about them rather than getting behind them when it’s necessary. One of my friends is a full-on progressive and Democratic Socialist and all she does is criticize and complain about fellow Democrats, especially establishment Dems. She’s always calling Democratic politicians “the fucking worst” if their politics aren’t 100% progressive. She’s caught up in purity politics. It’s exhausting. Progressives often seem to criticize other lefties more than they do politicians on the right. It’s like they don’t know who the real enemy is.

Also, Fauci isn’t a politician, so I think he still can be considered for sainthood.
 
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halcyondays

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I’m a liberal, but only semi-progressive. I think most progressives are too idealistic and not pragmatic enough. I consider myself a pragmatic progressive, so in-between a centrist and a progressive.

I actually think those of us on the left are TOO critical of our own. We’re always tearing our Democratic politicians down and fighting about them rather than getting behind them when it’s necessary. One of my friends is a full-on progressive and Democratic Socialist and all she does is criticize and complain about fellow Democrats, especially establishment Dems. She’s always calling Democratic politicians “the fucking worst” if their politics aren’t 100% progressive. She’s caught up in purity politics. It’s exhausting. Progressives often seem to criticize other lefties more than they do politicians on the right. It’s like they don’t know who the real enemy is.

Also, Fauci isn’t a politician, so I think he still can be considered for sainthood.

Ahh but sainthood subject to a devil's advocate.;) His work on HIV gets my vote for sainthood.:cool:

I don't mind your friend's criticisms of fellow Democrats as long as she goes to the polls and votes for them anyway. What bothers me are the purists who vote for someone else. An example is the 97,000 who voted for Ralph Nader in Florida in 2000. If just 600 of them had voted for Gore he would have won the state and the presidency by a hundred votes. Instead we got W, his war-based-on-false-pretenses in Iraq, other heinous war crimes, more tax cuts for the wealthy and his judicial appointments--just to name a few of his disasters.

This has happened on the right as well. Dissatisfied with the centrist GHW Bush in 1992 millions of Republicans voted for Ross Perot delivering the presidency to Bill Clinton. Same again in 1996 though Clinton might have won without the split on the right.

IMO Trump tapped the Ross Perot crowd in 2016. The centrists had no choice but to go along with him or vote for Hillary which many did. He squeaked out a electoral college victory by a mere 78,000 votes combined across Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin.

What bothers me are the Bernie supporters who voted for Trump in 2016. I hope your friend wasn't one of them.

The other thing that bothers me is Democrats who don't vote down ticket or in mid-terms. Do deliver real change a president needs Congress as well and even that's going to be a bitch.
 
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Is Dr. Fauci a saint for how he put up with Trump and the death threats from Trump supporters against him and his family for all of those months?

All opinions on Fauci and how he has handled his job are welcome.
Well, the person has to be dead for at least 5 years. Has he performed any verified miracles recently? Has he demonstrated four cardinal virtues (prudence, temperance, fortitude and justice) as well as the theological virtues of faith, hope and charity? A saint displays these qualities in a consistent and exceptional way... Post mortem it gets sent off by the person's bishop for investigation by the Church along with evidence of at least two miracles (but only one if the subject was a martyr)... there's a process.

How does someone become a saint?
 

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Dr. Fauci is an educated medical professional who simply did his job under difficult and trying circumstances.

I do think he was well suited for what he did, especially since he'd dealt with the HIV/Aids crisis beginning in the 1980s. As it was not the first time he ran up against science/medicine ignorance of political leaders.

He will always be respected, if not loved, by millions of people who lost loved ones during the "AIDS Crisis", and his battling the Reagan regime to pay attention to it... Even more so, by the millions of people whos loved ones did NOT die, because of the research he pursued.

"Saint", nah... Solid, stalwart scientist, yes.


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