Is gay marriage really that serious?

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

lots of good points already made and I don't have much to add other than my own opinion... personally I couldn't care less if two people want to get married. It's not hurting anyone else. People saying that this debases the institution of marriage are either homophobes or misguided by their religion. (In the interest of full disclosure I was formerly one of those misguided religious folks myself) If I were gay myself, I wouldn't really give a crap like the original poster because I don't see myself ever getting married anyway, to anybody. On the other hand, I really don't think there should be a constitutional ban, that's ridiculous. On a state level it seems like a silly waste of time, on a federal level it seems patently absurd. I think it's awful how underhanded politicians use this issue to get the "values voters" out to the polls whether they believe in a ban themselves or not. Using hatred to motivate your base is really disgusting and one of the many reasons I just don't like politicians in general. The fact that we are spending so much time and money on this issue and there are some idiots out there claiming the problem of gays getting married is 5x more threatening to our nation than terrorism is, is.... disappointing.. to say the least.

 

[GoneA]

Well, either way you look at it, whether you're for or against gay marriage, it's a serious matter ... and it's been treated as such. It's just too bad more people aren't aware of the world around them.

Good thing is, those kinds of people are usually killed in a disco inferno.

I don't see myself ever getting married anyway, to anybody

yeah, no kiddin'.

 

[prickleyguy]

This is just one more issue of a group of people trying to control the activities of others, if this law gets passed then what is next? We certainly can not allow people to discuss or view peni on the WWW can we?

The right wing in the USA are terrified that the country is falling apart do to the lurid actions of the left. If there was to be a national vote in the US about gay marriage I guarantee that the ban would pass. homophobia is alive and well. Religeous zealots are everywhere and are the cause of many of the problems in the world today. I understand we live in a society that needs some rules, I am not an anarchist, but this is about basic freedoms, security, money, insurance benefits etc,
Most gay marriages are more stable than hetro marriages..... It really takes a commitment to be Out and Gay and a couple in the US!

 

[Matthew]

Good thing is, those kinds of people are usually killed in a disco inferno.

I so want to live in your world.

 

[B_big dirigible]

The right wing in the USA are terrified that the country is falling apart do to the lurid actions of the left. If there was to be a national vote in the US about gay marriage I guarantee that the ban would pass. homophobia is alive and well. Religeous zealots are everywhere and are the cause of many of the problems in the world today. I understand we live in a society that needs some rules, I am not an anarchist, but this is about basic freedoms, security, money, insurance benefits etc,
Most gay marriages are more stable than hetro marriages..... It really takes a commitment to be Out and Gay and a couple in the US!

No, I'm afraid it's about votes. Wherever a gay marriage initiative has appeared on a ballot in the US, it has been crushed by masses of voters who simply don't want it. The most recent defeat, earlier this week, was what - 80% against?

So, why don't they want it? See the thread above for theories - blame it on George, blame it on "bible thumpers", blame it on "right wingers", blame it on homophobes. I suspect there are other groups involved, such as those who have some respect for the English language and reject Orwellian Newspeak, or words redefined to suit the pressure group du jour. But whoever it is, there sure are a lot of them. The voice of the people, a.k.a. democracy, seems clear, like it or not.

Personally, I don't see the rationale for any government to stick its nose that far into our domestic arrangements. Unfortunately tax law, property and inheritance law, criminal law, etc etc are tangled up with the institution of marriage. Perhaps the best approach would be to untangle these things, and divorce these laws from legal marriage. Then equality issues wouldn't arise. A woman could marry an entire football team, or a man could marry a sheep, and neither would be dented financially (until the divorce, of course).

 

[ben11]

I am sure it is as important to many gay couples who want to make a legal or spiritual commitment to each other as it is for most heterosexual couples. The issue is clearly important to politicians seeking to energize their socially conservative political base in an election year were they wish to diffuse the issue of political corruption.
\
This is no different than immigration becoming such a huge issue this year. There should have been intelligent debate on this issue a long time ago. It has been 20 years since Reagan’s amnesty plan and five years since 9/11 and our border enforcement is a joke. The reason why it is on the table now is because it can motivate voters who are driven by fear and/or racism.

Politicians can be very good at herding sheep.

 

[college22punk9]

EVeryone has made such good legal points....

And even though people can be committed without being married, having the acceptance of society recognizing your commitment is something positive as well. I mean, there are psychological aspects to this that might not really affect anyone once they get over things like "social acceptance", but what about the younger gay community, really thinking about it. I wonder if anyone thinks "maybe our relationships aren't something that should be worthy of recognition". I'm definately not agreeing with that statement, but people who are gay already have a hard time accepting their sexuality. They dont need society scoffing at them and telling them that their relationships aren't "good enough" as well.

There have been studies on the spread of STDs/promiscuity/related issues, in Denmark after they approved and legalized gay marriage.... guess what.... everything negative went down....

there's a shock.... not really... Too bad more people don't look at these studies, but instead throw out unrelated statistics into the media to gather the unintelligent sheep to back their misguided religious training (and by misguided, i mean religions that support "vengeful behavior" as if god said something like because he is a vengeful god, his followers should be too... but this is all for another thread)


Love your enemy.

peace out.

 

[Husbandshung]

Excellent!! I am glad to see all the responses to the gay marriage topic. Being gay and married (in Canada July 04) I can say I've never been happier. My biggest issue with it all is my retirement pension and social security benefits( although ssi may not be there when the time comes). I've worked all of my adult life to earn this pension and my social security they are MINE. If I were married to a woman she would receive them without question, but being married to a man he would get nothing. That is so wrong. As recently as 1967 there were still states that didn't allow inter-racial marriages, so I remain optimistic that our country will realize that gays getting married is no more of a threat to society than inter-racial marriage.

 

[D_Elijah_MorganWood]

We certainly can not allow people to discuss or view peni on the WWW can we?

BTW, who were the backers of the 2257 law anyway:wink:

 

[Novaboy]

This is my first post although I have been lurking for a while. I did once send a message to Alex saying that I enjoyed his humour. This thread however made me finally decide to post something. I'm from Canada and have been in a gay relationship for almost 12 years. We are not married and have no desire to do so as we don't feel it is necessary to define our relationship in this way.

What saddens me about these post is the idea that everyone in the USA or any other place must "get out and vote". Here is my problem; Human rights should not be put to a vote! Nothing that goes "against the norm" or rattles the conservative would ever happen if the only thing to make it happen was a vote. 50 years ago would people have voted for inter-racial marriages? Would they now in some states? Substitute any other basic right that we have in the western world with the right for gays to marry and you can see how totally discriminatory it is to not only deny this right to people but to legitimize this abuse based on a vote.

My name is Mike by the way.

 

[D_alex8]

TI did once send a message to Alex saying that I enjoyed his humour.

Thank you for that...:smile:... most people soon figure out that my ability to respond to PMs is minimal.

 

[findfirefox]

IMHO, I would have to say is Marriage that important, in a way, now because of the sanctity of Marriage needing to be protected there are Civil Unions, now I say that since all the bible bitches are trying to protect Marriage there should be more rules created...

I say anyone who gets divorced, can not get Re-Married they can become part of a Civil Union but to marry, because your divorce is bad for the sanctity of Marriage. If your no longer a Virgin, you can not get married, because according to the bible, that's bad, if you cheated on your spouse your Marriage is now a Civil Union...

Now these "rules" are insane but I say it will really bring the issue into light when 10 people are married and everyone else is pissed.

Just an idea...

 

[D_Elijah_MorganWood]

Thank you for that...:smile:... most people soon figure out that my ability to respond to PMs is minimal.

You must think I'm special:wink:

 

[BBB2.5]

Wow..what a fantastic topic. I agree with most of what has been stated already. For me I don't think getting "Married" is important. It is a terminology thing. If the straight people wish to have their own WAY joining together legally. Then allow them that chance. I think that most Gay couples would be happy with a "Civil Union Law". All we need are laws that would protect the lives that gay couples. We all spend huge amounts of money building our lives together. We pay the same taxes as everyone else, but we are not allowed to file income taxes together. Then there is the whole issue of Rights when it comes to health issues. Unless a Gay couple in America has filled out tons of paper work giving legal rights to their partner. They are screwed. For those that know, it is another way for America to charge us money for protection. Since our own constitution can not provide it for us. It is sad that people are actually trying to put discrimination into our constitution. We should not have to go through so much red tape to validate our relationships. Give us a "Civil Union Law" granting us the same rights and privileges as a Married Couple and I would be Very Happy. I live in the state of Georgia, where Gay Marrige has already been banned. But we have nothing on our books for Civil Unions.....How sad is that?
:tongue:

 

[husky14620]

Separate but equal has never worked. And there are already several Christian denominations who do perform same sex marriages. What about their right to religious freedom? Also, some Reform Jews recognise same sex marriage, as do many NON Judeo-Christian sects. What the Gay marriage debate is really about is the American Fundimentalist Christian Taliban demanding to take control of the United States Government, lock, stock, and barrel. The republicans are so controlled by and indebted to these Christian Taliban that they will continue to pander, and misdirect the American people away from their total mismanagement of the economy, the "War on Terror"(TM), and their "Culture of Corruption".

Wow..what a fantastic topic. I agree with most of what has been stated already. For me I don't think getting "Married" is important. It is a terminology thing. If the straight people wish to have their own WAY joining together legally. Then allow them that chance. I think that most Gay couples would be happy with a "Civil Union Law". All we need are laws that would protect the lives that gay couples. We all spend huge amounts of money building our lives together. We pay the same taxes as everyone else, but we are not allowed to file income taxes together. Then there is the whole issue of Rights when it comes to health issues. Unless a Gay couple in America has filled out tons of paper work giving legal rights to their partner. They are screwed. For those that know, it is another way for America to charge us money for protection. Since our own constitution can not provide it for us. It is sad that people are actually trying to put discrimination into our constitution. We should not have to go through so much red tape to validate our relationships. Give us a "Civil Union Law" granting us the same rights and privileges as a Married Couple and I would be Very Happy. I live in the state of Georgia, where Gay Marrige has already been banned. But we have nothing on our books for Civil Unions.....How sad is that?
:tongue:

 

[kelp]

9 years ago, my partner (gay) of 11 years was injured in an accident. When the decision was made to switch off the life support , I had absolutly no say legally whatso ever..despite him having no other immediate family. Perhaps this is an example of where some sort of legal recognition of our relationship would have been helpful.

 

[D_Elijah_MorganWood]

9 years ago, my partner (gay) of 11 years was injured in an accident. When the decision was made to switch off the life support , I had absolutly no say legally whatso ever..despite him having no other immediate family. Perhaps this is an example of where some sort of legal recognition of our relationship would have been helpful.

I'm sorry for your loss. This is a prime example. We have Reciprocal Beneficiary here for cases like this. It's still not marriage.

 

[DC_DEEP]

Separate but equal has never worked.... The republicans are so controlled by and indebted to these Christian Taliban that they will continue to pander, and misdirect the American people away from their total mismanagement of the economy, the "War on Terror"(TM), and their "Culture of Corruption".

You've got it exactly right, husky. It's always interesting to note that the christian taliban, as you so eloquently put it, don't see an absolute right or wrong with oppression... "If I do it, it's god's good work. If you do it, it's wrong, the work of the devil."

Kelp, sorry to hear about your tribulations, but thank you so much for illustrating, from your own personal experience, exactly what I have been trying to get across in all my posts on this subject. Most everyone else just does not seem to get it. My concerns about marriage have nothing at all to do with getting dressed up in tuxedos, drinking champagne, and eating wedding cake. My concerns are the government's manipulation of rights, violation of 14th amendment protections (here in the US), and the government's general message of "gays are the final frontier in discrimination; not only will we permit it, we will actively promote it."

 

[D_BobN_Weave]

my favourite thing about the whole "gay" thing with religious peole are "we totally accept homosexual people.......they just can't have the same rights as straight people".......yeah......thats totally accepting them.

i actually went to church for a little while, but i was so disgusted with the narrowmindedness of a lot of people, that i had to leave. i believed some of the stuff they were saying, but the church i went to had like an entire month dedicated to basically bashing gay people.

as for marriage, fuck, as im sure many a people have already said.....if youre man and woman or man and man or woman and woman.....if you be happy together, sure get married.....as long as you are happy.

but i do agree with the original statement.....marriage is basically a convienence for some people.....55% end in divorce.....if marriage was to happen between two loving people....then why the fuck is the the amount of marriages that last in the minority......absolutely stupid

So, I am heading to Vegas in August.....anyone wanna get married?

 

[HungThickProf]

WELL DAMN! I didn't think I'd get this much of a reaction. And like I said- I was half- asleep. I totally agree with the whole civil rights thing- totally! I guess the next question I have is- if/when gay marriage is legal, who's really going to care? Or value that right?