I don't like leaving CA. I have yet to encounter much of it here, we love our gays! When I visited a friend in Minnesota I was shocked by how different and closed minded people were. I upset me greatly. I know I am fooling myself in my little world, but it's how I cope. Come to CA, gays! Prop 8 is bullshit and while it's not perfect, it's better than living somewhere with small minded views.
Is gay OK now?
- Thread starter BIGdkluver
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This is exactly what I believe, too. The segments of society that are traditionally homophobic, misogynistic (aren't they really the same thing?) and xenophobic see that they are losing the battle. In fact, they've been losing it for almost 100 years now. More, actually, when you include the abolition of slavery.
People often point out a rise in hate crimes against queer and trans people, but the researchers who follow this stuff are quick to counter that more and more people are reporting hate crimes, and more and more police departments are filing and reporting hate-related charges. So it's a question of whether the numbers are rising, or if they're finally starting to be reported in a realistic manner.
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The main problem I see with the linked statistics, the original question of this topic, and society in general is that there's little to no distinction between "gay" as a matter of sexual attraction, "gay" as a subculture, and "gay" as a form of self-expression. My opinion is that those who feel uncomfortable or threatened by the idea of "gay" are reacting to their own fear and misunderstanding which has been fueled by stereotypes that many of us homos are all too happy to perpetuate.
Those who are outspoken on any subject generally seem to be so as a result of shame; just as some of the most vocal advocates of an anti-homosexual political agenda have had their careers and credibility ruined after being discovered cruising in bathrooms or driving home drunk from gay bars, it's been my personal experience that some of the most outspoken out-and-proud homos tend to be the ones who are still more than somewhat ashamed of themselves; excessive pride is often a reaction formation to the experience of shame. The sad truth is that no matter where you fall on the opinion spectrum, it's always much easier to point fingers, blame everyone else, stroke your own ego, and convince yourself that you are correct than it is to express humility and take even a modicum of responsibility for your own actions and personal faults. Culturally, we're forgetting how to be humble and moderate, so this is not just a gay issue.
We all want to be part of a group. Anything we do to advertise our membership in one group to the members of another group, however, only serves to bring such differences into sharp relief; think back to the last election season and how uneasy seeing the opposing candidate's bumper stickers, TV ads, lawn signs, and so on made you feel, regardless of who you were voting for. By the same token, while we all deserve the right to free expression, there are cultural limits to that expression; you don't put on your leather fetish gear or your skimpiest thong underwear and then go grocery shopping, for example, and you will almost definitely make more enemies than friends if you browse the cereal aisle completely nude. Anything you do to make someone uncomfortable while you're making your first impression will have a long-lasting, adverse effect on your relationship with that person, and thus, you can't constantly advertise how different you are from everyone else and be surprised when some of them manifest their discomfort in the form of fear. This is the case regardless of what form that advertisement takes, whether it's festooning your car with rainbow stickers, campaign stickers, left-wing or right-wing bumper stickers, having excessively weird hair and facial piercings, wearing a crucifix, yarmulke, or hijab, et cetera ad nauseam.
It's generally easier to gain acceptance if you exercise a culturally-accepted level of modesty in your self-expression, regardless of what it is that you're expressing, while not coming across as deceitful or dishonest. If you make your first impression as just another one of the guys and let people get to know you for who you are, it'll generally be easier for them to accept your differences. If you make your first impression by pointing out your differences, you spend a long time battling to convince them of your similarities, and thus battling for acceptance. It's tough to shake a label, regardless of whether you're labeled as a fag, a jesus freak, a pothead, a n environmentalist nutjob, and so on.
Focusing back specifically on the gay question, it's my belief that people who fear the idea of gay are generally more uncomfortable with the stereotype of gays as hedonistic, disrespectful, arrogant, flamboyant, and willing to fuck anything that moves than they are with the idea of homosexuality in and of itself. When we advertise and give that first impression, we remind them of the stereotype, and their subsequent fear reaction is their fear of the stereotype, not of us. While visibility is important, the reactionary side of gay culture is either rapidly approaching or has already passed the point where it does more harm than good, and it needs to die off. If we really want full acceptance, we can't gain it by sequestering ourselves off into little bubbles of stereotype-laden subculture that are completely disconnected from the rest of society.
Those who are outspoken on any subject generally seem to be so as a result of shame; just as some of the most vocal advocates of an anti-homosexual political agenda have had their careers and credibility ruined after being discovered cruising in bathrooms or driving home drunk from gay bars, it's been my personal experience that some of the most outspoken out-and-proud homos tend to be the ones who are still more than somewhat ashamed of themselves; excessive pride is often a reaction formation to the experience of shame. The sad truth is that no matter where you fall on the opinion spectrum, it's always much easier to point fingers, blame everyone else, stroke your own ego, and convince yourself that you are correct than it is to express humility and take even a modicum of responsibility for your own actions and personal faults. Culturally, we're forgetting how to be humble and moderate, so this is not just a gay issue.
We all want to be part of a group. Anything we do to advertise our membership in one group to the members of another group, however, only serves to bring such differences into sharp relief; think back to the last election season and how uneasy seeing the opposing candidate's bumper stickers, TV ads, lawn signs, and so on made you feel, regardless of who you were voting for. By the same token, while we all deserve the right to free expression, there are cultural limits to that expression; you don't put on your leather fetish gear or your skimpiest thong underwear and then go grocery shopping, for example, and you will almost definitely make more enemies than friends if you browse the cereal aisle completely nude. Anything you do to make someone uncomfortable while you're making your first impression will have a long-lasting, adverse effect on your relationship with that person, and thus, you can't constantly advertise how different you are from everyone else and be surprised when some of them manifest their discomfort in the form of fear. This is the case regardless of what form that advertisement takes, whether it's festooning your car with rainbow stickers, campaign stickers, left-wing or right-wing bumper stickers, having excessively weird hair and facial piercings, wearing a crucifix, yarmulke, or hijab, et cetera ad nauseam.
It's generally easier to gain acceptance if you exercise a culturally-accepted level of modesty in your self-expression, regardless of what it is that you're expressing, while not coming across as deceitful or dishonest. If you make your first impression as just another one of the guys and let people get to know you for who you are, it'll generally be easier for them to accept your differences. If you make your first impression by pointing out your differences, you spend a long time battling to convince them of your similarities, and thus battling for acceptance. It's tough to shake a label, regardless of whether you're labeled as a fag, a jesus freak, a pothead, a n environmentalist nutjob, and so on.
Focusing back specifically on the gay question, it's my belief that people who fear the idea of gay are generally more uncomfortable with the stereotype of gays as hedonistic, disrespectful, arrogant, flamboyant, and willing to fuck anything that moves than they are with the idea of homosexuality in and of itself. When we advertise and give that first impression, we remind them of the stereotype, and their subsequent fear reaction is their fear of the stereotype, not of us. While visibility is important, the reactionary side of gay culture is either rapidly approaching or has already passed the point where it does more harm than good, and it needs to die off. If we really want full acceptance, we can't gain it by sequestering ourselves off into little bubbles of stereotype-laden subculture that are completely disconnected from the rest of society.
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Sounds like my mom.:frown1: But yea I definitely feel as though the tides are shifting. I consider the restaurant where I work to be "the gay one"...jokingly. I mean, of the 12 employees there, 6 are gay, 2 are bisexual, and 1 is "bi-curious". We rarely have problems with customers about it, the majority are cool.
B_hardasarokkk
Experimental Member
Yep, the times they are 'a changin'.
I was at a party a while ago with a lot of people , including my wife, daughter and 2 sons,and the subject turned to gays. The beer was flowing and my daughter came straight out and asked my son if he was gay! Welll!!! I had had my suspicions for a few years but he said..."hell no !"
turns out he now ,finally has a steady gal that he is rooting. how did we ever doubt him?
I was at a party a while ago with a lot of people , including my wife, daughter and 2 sons,and the subject turned to gays. The beer was flowing and my daughter came straight out and asked my son if he was gay! Welll!!! I had had my suspicions for a few years but he said..."hell no !"
turns out he now ,finally has a steady gal that he is rooting. how did we ever doubt him?
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