Is God against homosexuality?

[Phil Ayesho]

So it is educational and informative to tell people



That statement is entirely insulting to the Hopi. and other pacifist culture groups. I am sorry that's not educational it is condescending to their culture. and Racist

No it wasn't

Allow me to explain to why- in simple words, like a child might understand.

ALL magical beliefs are Silly.

Because I am NOT disparaging any ONE group's magical beliefs as being any MORE silly than any other's, I can not be guilty of racism is saying such a thing. Racism is a form of EXCEPTIONALISM - of belief that one culture is lesser than another. Or that One Culture can be characterized in terms that do not equally apply to other cultures.

But I do not ascribe to ANY form of exception in human cultural behaviors. Individual beliefs may vary from one culture to another, but they are ALL beliefs, alike. And beliefs define how any given people might see themselves as different from any other.
But I dismiss ALL supposed differences as incidental and unimportant. All Cultural identities as merely narratives to which people subscribe.


So- in actuality- it is YOUR assumption that YOUR culture is in any meaningful way different, that is a form of racism.

Now you are free to choose to feel that that is denigrating to your culture.. but, again, I am not responsible for the silly ideas in which you invest belief.


I examine beliefs individually- not collectively, because the beliefs themselves change over time in every culture.

You yourself would probably be averse to Skinning a captive from another tribe alive.
An idea that would not have troubled one of your own ancestors.

 

[MisterSlave]

Matthew Markowitz has an interesting case study on the Hopi: Hisatsinom, Navajo: Anasazi
In his article published in 2003.

http://www1.american.edu/TED/ice/anasazi.htm

. . .at the peak of their existence, they suddenly set fire to their creations and left.

Why?, why would someone leave. why would they set fire to their Kivas? Why would they set fire to what they considered their holy meeting places. The Hisatsinom, are the ancestors of the Hopi. Even the Navajo word, Anasazi means (ancient enemy). There is a long standing history between these 2 culturally different people.

To add some context to the concept

Historical records from 900 to 1300 A.D. in Europe indicate that this was a time of changes in atmospheric circulation known as the Medieval Warm Period. In high-latitude regions this was largely beneficial: grapes were grown in England and the Norse founded colonies first in Iceland and then in southern Greenland. But in arid regions a warmer climate, especially when accompanied by drought, can cause significant difficulties for farmers. A fifty-year drought occurred between 1130 and 1180 A.D. It was during this period that soil and water conservation features such as grid borders, terraces and check dams began to be built in the Four Corners area

At the time, they were experiencing drought. it was not just them who were feeling the effects of the drought, but other groups like the ancestors of the (Dine')-Navajo..and the Utes. there is further elaboration.

The factors cited by the proponents of the drought theory add to the conclusions one can draw from these sources. There is little doubt that the impact of little water had something to do with the ancient Pueblo leaving their homes. But other possibilities must be understood.

[The word Anasazi is actually a misnomer. Many translate it as ancient ones. But etymologists ( have traced its roots to a Navajo word meaning ancient enemies:

"Anasazi, said Richard (Wetherill), was a Navajo word. The Navajo used it to describe the ancient people, now vanished, whose ruined dwellings the Navajo found when they migrated into the Four Corners region from the northward. In a loose, vague sense Anasazi meant ancient enemies. Richard did not know if this implied that the first of the Navajos had found some of these early ones still in their pueblos and cliff dwellings, and made war upon them."/QUOTE]

While the cliff dwellings of Chaco Canyon can be interpreted as being a (fortified location) there is indeed evidence of violence. However, I highly doubt that conflicts arose between the Hopi themselves, and that these conflicts arose from scarcity of resources and extreme conditions.

So it appears as though they had something or someone to fear. And they did a decent job. Yet, notes the article, There is also no evidence in burials that shows violence. They feel it was unlikely that war was the straw that broke the camel's back.

On the other hand, there do appear to be some clues that there was- violence. For example, scientists have found evidence of cannibalism. Some think it was from religious mobs from Mexico, where cannibalism was regularly practiced, and thugs of Toltecs came in from Mexico and used it as a gimmick and weapon. Evidence is shown by both bones teeth marks (see Turner & Turner, )

The thing is.. there are descendants of these people living today. You can ask them. Some, know their history. The same can be said of my group, the Sioux.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Phil, The Article that was written in 1988. There have been significant advances since then. Not to mention.. was there mention of wholesale deforestation of the region. The authors of your article made speculation, but then again the article only deals with the Dolores site.

Within the abstact its self .. . the authors Assert: "Such behavior has not been obvious because it is obscured partially by higher-priority responses to climatic fluctuations, and perhaps responses by responses to social and demographic factors that are less well understood."

Those factors are now easier to understand because more research has been done, (and people have actually decided to ask the descendants of those people themselves)... So please just stop.

And General Relativity was published in 1915.
So what?
Good science is not rendered obsolete by the calendar.

Y'know what IS rendered obsolete by the calendar? Fashion. Trend. Vogue.
And, as I have said, I have read many a paper in the last 20 years that sought to discount those conclusions and that evidence.
Those I have read I have found to be scientifically weak.

But- as you see, there IS work out there that supports exactly what I said. Work you think is refuted, but that I do not. Work you pretended to not even exist.

But- here's the thing, I could change my mind, I haven't read EVERY paper. Just a dozen or so, spread over 20 years. Its entirely possible that you could cite me a paper that would entirely change my mind.
You see, I really don't care WHAT the truth is, either way. I just want the truth.

But I DO know that many papers have been published as a direct result of the deforestation findings upsetting an emerging narrative about Native Americans that they "lived in harmony" with their environment. ( as if they had the capacity to even tell if they were )
I have witnessed lots of folks who have an affinity for, or connection to Native Peoples actively look to try and refute studies that seemed to detract from that narrative. they try to cast doubt on anything that counters their stereotypic storyline.

Lots of "Science" is actively political in that way.

And, I DO know that YOUR opinions on these subjects can be predicted by your desire to support a narrative in which YOU have, clearly, invested significant emotion. You will predictably credit the work that supports the perspective you WANT to be true… because you feel the conclusion somehow affects Your existence.

And, once again- you help to prove my point.

Whether the Native Americans of centuries ago damaged their environment or not should be NO Skin off Your nose.

YOU don't get anything out of it either way. YOU didn't do it. You weren't there. And as much as you want to FEEL that there is continuity between you and them, that is a meaningless delusion. You are NOT like them.

I may be white American, but I DID NOT own any slaves. Nor kill any Native Americans. I neither supported nor fought against colonialism and "manifest destiny". I was born into THIS world, with an entirely different moral framework than the people who lived hundreds of years before me, regardless of their language, or what they called themselves.

The people alive today only Fantasize about a connection to the past. It is entirely invented.

If not for history books and movies you would have no ideas whatsoever about the actual past of your nor any other people. All you would have is the stories older living people told you. And in the Lakota world of centuries ago, you would not have heard many stories about anyone long dead because, back then, they felt it was wrong to speak the names of the dead.

try this on for size...

How dare any Christian claim umbrage at imagined slights against a people who were forced to become Christian?

Just being a Christian is far more of an insult to your own native past than anything I have written.

Now… that last sentence was written as if I thought of the world the way YOU do.
See how silly it sounds to accuse you of insulting a whole people because of something you believe?

 

[MisterSlave]

That's ok Phil you are entitled to point your finger at someone and say, (I think your thoughts are silly) I think your ethnic group is "silly" I think the religion of your people is silly. All that does is make you look like a Jerk.

You yourself would probably be averse to Skinning a captive from another tribe alive.
An idea that would not have troubled one of your own ancestors.

Just what are you insinuating here? by all means elaborate.

So what if I wanted to count coup, or scalp someone. . some people deserve such treatment. I am just as human as anyone else. I get angry. We all do. Some people even do some rather inhumane things.

I am by no means attacking anyone's belief system here, but I seem to remember Karl Marx who said: 'Religion is the Opium of the Masses/people'. / "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" . . . TO THIS DAY, the Chinese are STILL repairing the cultural damage done by Maos Purges. and not just image and public relations, but real Physical damage. Some damage was Irreparable, such as texts and documents that were burned. Buddhists, Taoists, and Confucians Lost lots of things during the era of purges. Temples and artifacts that are tied to religion are part of art history. they are part of our collective history. There is such a thing as (Art History)

There existed a UNESCO world heritage site called: Bamiyan valley, wherein contained many carved Buddhas. The largest being 175 feet tall. It was destroyed in 2001 by the Taliban in what could be considered a (purge) of iconoclastic nature. The Objects there were not just Sacred and meaningful to people, but the 175' tall carved statue was perhaps a close second to the Leshan Buddha. The Loss of the Bamiyan Buddhas were felt worldwide and were a tragedy.

I would imagine some people would agree with me, that there are things to be learned from History. Deciding to Purge religion from society is a BAD idea. It ignores part of the history of our people. (especially if your aim is to purge). After all those who do not learn from history are prone to repeat the mistakes made previously.

You may feel differently than I do about that, but some people on this planet have had forced acculturation done to them. That, is just wrong. Some people choose to eliminate religion or else feel that their religious views are superior. The actions they take doing so can in some cases be Globally criminal.

[ALL magical beliefs are Silly./QUOTE]

I am not out there telling people that their belief systems are (wrong) or "silly". you however, are.

Art History is not silly, Oral tradition is not Silly, Anthropology is not Silly, nor is respect for someone else's culture.

 

[MisterSlave]

you are supporting your own narrative though. . LOL

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Matthew Markowitz has an interesting case study on the Hopi: Hisatsinom, Navajo: Anasazi
In his article published in 2003.

http://www1.american.edu/TED/ice/anasazi.htm



Why?, why would someone leave. why would they set fire to their Kivas? Why would they set fire to what they considered their holy meeting places. The Hisatsinom, are the ancestors of the Hopi. Even the Navajo word, Anasazi means (ancient enemy). There is a long standing history between these 2 culturally different people.

To add some context to the concept


At the time, they were experiencing drought. it was not just them who were feeling the effects of the drought, but other groups like the ancestors of the (Dine')-Navajo..and the Utes. there is further elaboration.

Interesting STORIES
But deforestation CAUSES droughts. Changing the plant and animal life over a large area changes the environment.

Here's a little tidbit for you- the guy who discovered the Los Angeles Basin named it Tierra De Los Fumar - the land of the smoke, because of all the Air Pollution from native campfires. Even back then, thermal inversion caused human pollution to collect over LA.

I can go on and on… with examples of Native Americans blissfully ignorant of their own impact on the environment.

But at this point you are NOT being responsive to the actual POINT. You are simply vainly trying to defend some imaginary Self Image of yourself as Heir to some mystical native culture.

The point is the difference between the Story you tell yourself About yourself.

And how that can be a source of exclusion and contention.

The more you contend in defense of Native Cultural identity… the more you prove my point.

 

[MisterSlave]

Oh but I Did respond to the point, a number of pages ago. I said that Native Americans had the concept of 2 souled people. its tied to the culture and religion of the Native peoples of North Ameica and it extended to many groups other than just my own, the Sioux. . but, then you decided to launch into some diatribe about how the great spirit is BS. and the belief systems of my people.which you quite happily picked apart in a very agressive and condescending manner, Phil. The first words you used to me were insulting to the pacifist groups like the Hopi.

You are creating imaginary memories about things that never were.
Your people NEVER knew a peaceful existence.

If that is not an inflammatory lead off, I do not know what is.


The thing is Although I am Sioux, I am (related) to other native groups who were pacifist. Its Insulting. You say you know so much about my people and you have respect for them, but with every response you have presented to me you paint yourself as an arrogant racist. By all means continue. I keep getting messages here from other Native Americans who are cheering me on.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

That's ok Phil you are entitled to point your finger at someone and say, (I think your thoughts are silly) I think your ethnic group is "silly" I think the religion of your people is silly. All that does is make you look like a Jerk.

Shit- are you seriously incapable of follow a simple line of argument.

I didn't say any "people" were silly. I said magical beliefs are silly. People can hold those beliefs or not. It has Nothing to do with the people.

YOU imagine that a people ARE their beliefs. But you can't show me that any people's beliefs have remained unchanged.
If they are STILL the same People- but their beliefs are different, then the BELIEFS are NOT the people. Get it?

Just what are you insinuating here? by all means elaborate.

Look up insinuation.
It was not an insinuation. I stated clearly that YOU probably would not be willing to skin another person alive.
And that an Oglala of 1800 would have been willing to Skin a Crow alive.

Ergo- you do not ascribe to the same beliefs set as an Oglala from 1800.

Are you STILL an Oglala even if you would disagree with an ancestors moral framework?

So what if I wanted to count coup, or scalp someone. . some people deserve such treatment. I am just as human as anyone else. I get angry. We all do. Some people even do some rather inhumane things.

So You WOULD skin someone alive?

I would imagine some people would agree with me, that there are things to be learned from History. Deciding to Purge religion from society is a BAD idea. It ignores part of the history of our people. (especially if your aim is to purge). After all those who do not learn from history are prone to repeat the mistakes made previously.

You may feel differently than I do about that, but some people on this planet have had forced acculturation done to them. That, is just wrong. Some people choose to eliminate religion or else feel that their religious views are superior. The actions they take doing so can in some cases be Globally criminal.

What on gods green earth makes you think I would PURGE religion from history?

Look, I KNOW that Star Wars is a Fairy Tale. Saying everyone OUGHT to comprehend that it is a fairy tale is NOT saying it should be purged.

I am Not saying your people's own narratives and stories serve no purpose.

But it changes how you treat them and others when you UNDERSTAND that they are JUST stories.

It doesn't mean they are not instructive, insightful or have some moral to impart.

Its one thing to look at stories about God as stories about Human longing, fear, and need for meaning.
It another to look at them as being TRUE.

Nobody goes to war, or crashes planes into buildings over Star Wars.
But they WOULD if they believed the story was true.

The Christian concept of redemption is so stunningly beautiful that it brings me to tears just to type the word.

The IDEA of it is what matters, and that knowledge that it was a HUMAN idea… for human reasons.


I can be affected by the story of my own people's past and still realize that it is just a story. Its NOT my life. Not my struggle.
Not MY identity.

Being born Jewish gives no one any more real insight into surviving , or dying, in a concentration camp than any NON- jew who is moved by the story.

You can learn something about mankind from the Bible.
And you can learn something about mankind from the Hobbit.
because they are both human inventions for reasons that matter to humans only.

But it is BELIEVING them to be TRUE that makes you think you are different. OR special, or that someone else is lesser.

 

[MisterSlave]

You don't think I ascribe to the belief systems of my people. I am confronting you, am I not?

 

[MisterSlave]

I Am Native American, and Our religion is tied to our cultural Identity..and our cultural identity is tied to our religion. (Unless accultured) You obviously do not respect Native Americans. You have gone well beyond that.

Phil. . I think you you are playing a very dangerous game mentioning

Being born Jewish gives no one any more real insight into surviving , or dying, in a concentration camp than any NON- jew who is moved by the story.

Good luck with that.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

If that is not an inflammatory lead off, I do not know what is.

Take an Advil for that inflammation.

You only found it inflammatory because you have invested a belief with some form of truth.
That is an emotional investment in a story.

It was not denigrating, nor inflammatory in its presentation. It was neutral. Its impossible to say that someone is mistaking something imaginary for truth without using words that suggest a "belief" to be magical, delusional, or invented.

The point was only to show that we ALL believe things about ourselves or our history that are nothing but narrative.

I believe I was born In Oakland. But I don't actually know that for certain. Its just the story I was told.
If I weren't, no one could tell me otherwise without essentially saying that what I believed about my birth is false.


But, On another tack…

It was good you found it inflammatory.
People often rise to their best defense and make their best arguments when they feel strongly about them.

This has been some of the best discussion I have ever been involved in.


Thanks.

 

[MisterSlave]

No, because you do not understand Native Americans and you are a Racist.

 

[MisterSlave]

Its not even a discussion. There is nothing yet to discuss.. Other than the fact you are arrogant and condescending toward a people you are outside of. As I have said before.. . I AM a Native American.. and you have already indicated you are not.

I, Am a Religious leader of my people and an Elder. You are being quite insulting to both me and my culture. (Yeah it is my interpretation of your text. . but I have people telling me that they feel you have insulted them, your claims are untrue, Based on oral tradition and Anthopological evidence). You have not just insulted the Sioux Nation, and its various bands .. but also the Puebloan groups too. (They have been the most vocal to me by the way about your responses). I do not blame them, if they do not wish to respond as Confrontation is not usually their style. If you know the Hopi way, . . (which you don't), you would know that they live by a moralistic code. Or at least those who still practice the old ways and their faith, do.

It is a very compelling thing for me to help educate the younger generation and pass along our traditions. Even outside of my capacity as a Shaman. When a question is raised of: (Is God against Homosexuality)? - With regard to Native Americans..

I can happily tell Native youth, (NO). In our culture, the Animistic spirits and the greater spirit or (mystery) is free from good or evil and such notions. Some native youth have grown up in Mixed race or in an accultured family. I would also encourage the youth to search within themselves and try and contact the spirits themselves, (this is also Our way), but. . I am sure you don't care at all about that since its a fairy tale to you.

You mentioned something 2 responses ago that I wish you to elaborate upon. Can you please expand upon:

Being born Jewish gives no one any more real insight into surviving , or dying, in a concentration camp than any NON- jew who is moved by the story.

I am unsure what you mean.

 

[MisterSlave]

You only found it inflammatory because you have invested a belief with some form of truth.
That is an emotional investment in a story.

It was not denigrating, nor inflammatory in its presentation. It was neutral. Its impossible to say that someone is mistaking something imaginary for truth without using words that suggest a "belief" to be magical, delusional, or invented.

How many times Do I have to use your own examples to prove you Wrong, Phil.

You are creating imaginary memories about things that never were.
Your people NEVER knew a peaceful existence

I call (BS). Fabrication, and Racist Lie. Racism is Inflammatory

The Hopi are descended from the Ancient Pueblo Peoples (Hopi: Hisatsinom or Navajo: Anasazi) who constructed large apartment-house complexes in northeastern Arizona, northwestern New Mexico, and southwestern Colorado. They lived along the Mogollon Rim, especially from the 12th–14th century, when they abandoned their large villages. The name Hopi is a shortened form of their autonym, Hopituh Shi-nu-mu ("The Peaceful People" or "Peaceful Little Ones").[2] The Hopi Dictionary[3] gives the primary meaning of the word "Hopi" as: "behaving one, one who is mannered, civilized, peaceable, polite, who adheres to the Hopi way." In the past, Hopi sometimes used the term "Hopi" and its cognates to refer to the Pueblo peoples in general, in contrast to other, more warlike tribes.

Hopi is a concept deeply rooted in the culture's religion, spirituality, and its view of morality and ethics. To be Hopi is to strive toward this concept, which involves a state of total reverence and respect for all things, to be at peace with these things, and to live in accordance with the instructions of Maasaw, the Creator or Caretaker of Earth. The Hopi observe their traditional ceremonies for the benefit of the entire world.

The Hopi have always viewed their land as sacred. Agriculture is a very important part of their culture, and their villages are spread out across the northern part of Arizona. The Hopi and the Navajo did not have a conception of land being bounded and divided. They lived on the land that their ancestors did

 

[longwideride]

MisterSlave wrote:
1.) So what if I wanted to count coup, or scalp someone.
So torture is an acceptable value to you?
2.) Some people deserve such treatment. No one deserves torture, and Native American people have a historical record of enslaving and torturing their captives.
3.)I am just as human as anyone else. I get angry. We all do. Some people even do some rather inhumane things. Being human, getting angry, and the fact that some people do rather inhumane things does not change, mitigate, or justify what Native Americans did to both their Native American and their Caucasian captives. Even women and children participated in the torture of their captives.

Your can't gloss over parts of 'your people's' history because you don't like it, and you can't rationalize or excuse brutality. The fact that 'other people have done it, too' is the argumentation tactic of a child trying to escape responsibility for what (s)he's done.

 

[MisterSlave]

So torture is an acceptable value to you?

Its as acceptable to me, as it is to you.
To Sit from our era and cast judgements upon our ancestors is not fair, nor is it fair for us to think about those events outside of the context and timeline . Yeah Ok , so some (person) comes on my land and tells me to leave. and points a gun at my family. So then my family decides to stay. . So the man comes back with more of his kind, who kill my family, rape my wife and daughter.. If we use those types of thinking for the time, there was a reason they acted that way.

2.) Some people deserve such treatment. No one deserves torture, and Native American people have a historical record of enslaving and torturing their captives.

I am sorry but at times things fell into the concepts of justice and retribution. What kind of a legal system and diplomacy did my ancestors have? Again, we have to put ourselves in historical context. this is 2015, as we type our text here. Saying my people have a historical record of torture and slavery, is like saying: The Egyptians Kept slaves, and the Romans Tortured slaves. . So what. . many cultures did Both.. (but some did not). Did the Hopi Keep slaves? Did they Torture people. My Sioux ancestors may have done that, but what were the reasons. Also, The current view among many tribes and bands within the USA, is that we are (family) most all native groups have common ancestry, so talking about other groups like the Hopi, means (they are cousins). So even though my Sioux ancestors may have done what some would consider offensive, the Hopi did not.

Being human, getting angry, and the fact that some people do rather inhumane things does not change, mitigate, or justify what Native Americans did to both their Native American and their Caucasian captives. Even women and children participated in the torture of their captives.

Being caucasian, doesn't give one the right to start coming off all smug when caucasians infected blankets with smallpox and gave them to my people. Being caucasian, doesn't give back land that was stolen. Being caucasian doesn't bring back the lives of Innocents who died at the hands of the caucasian miliary and people who came to remove native people from ancestral lands.. Even women and Children Participated in outwardly aggressive and in some cases criminal ways toward my people in past centuries.

While what you say may be in part true regarding my own tribe and band, that's not entirely true of all native groups who lived here. There were pacifist groups. If you do not believe me, go look for yourself. I am all for people learning new things.

I do not gloss over the negative aspects in my people's history and culture anymore than you would with yours. As I have said before comparing society now to the way things used to be during contact era through reservation era to now. . is just not fair.. .nor is it fair to say; (All native american groups were violent people who kept slaves). That blanket statement is both wrong, and is offensive to some people. Its also like comparing apples and oranges. Like say, maybe an apple from 1800 to the new and Hybrid apples that exist today.

 

[longwideride]

Its as acceptable to me, as it is to you.
To Sit from our era and cast judgements upon our ancestors is not fair, nor is it fair for us to think about those events outside of the context and timeline . Yeah Ok , so some (person) comes on my land and tells me to leave. and points a gun at my family. So then my family decides to stay. . So the man comes back with more of his kind, who kill my family, rape my wife and daughter.. If we use those types of thinking for the time, there was a reason they acted that way.



I am sorry but at times things fell into the concepts of justice and retribution. What kind of a legal system and diplomacy did my ancestors have? Again, we have to put ourselves in historical context. this is 2015, as we type our text here. Saying my people have a historical record of torture and slavery, is like saying: The Egyptians Kept slaves, and the Romans Tortured slaves. . So what. . many cultures did Both.. (but some did not). Did the Hopi Keep slaves? Did they Torture people. My Sioux ancestors may have done that, but what were the reasons. Also, The current view among many tribes and bands within the USA, is that we are (family) most all native groups have common ancestry, so talking about other groups like the Hopi, means (they are cousins). So even though my Sioux ancestors may have done what some would consider offensive, the Hopi did not.



Being caucasian, doesn't give one the right to start coming off all smug when caucasians infected blankets with smallpox and gave them to my people. Being caucasian, doesn't give back land that was stolen. Being caucasian doesn't bring back the lives of Innocents who died at the hands of the caucasian miliary and people who came to remove native people from ancestral lands.. Even women and Children Participated in outwardly aggressive and in some cases criminal ways toward my people in past centuries.

While what you say may be in part true regarding my own tribe and band, that's not entirely true of all native groups who lived here. There were pacifist groups. If you do not believe me, go look for yourself. I am all for people learning new things.

I do not gloss over the negative aspects in my people's history and culture anymore than you would with yours. As I have said before comparing society now to the way things used to be during contact era through reservation era to now. . is just not fair.. .nor is it fair to say; (All native american groups were violent people who kept slaves). That blanket statement is both wrong, and is offensive to some people. Its also like comparing apples and oranges. Like say, maybe an apple from 1800 to the new and Hybrid apples that exist today.

OK, so native americans are as mean, brutal, and vicious as the rest of humanity.

 

[MisterSlave]

The actions people take..are the actions people take... to say

OK, so native americans are as mean, brutal, and vicious as the rest of humanity.

Is a bit hasty and Naive to make that statement, considering some groups were pacifist.

 

[longwideride]

The actions people take..are the actions people take... to say
Is a bit hasty and Naive to make that statement, considering some groups were pacifist.

So, barring some pacifist groups, native americans are as mean, brutal, and vicious as the rest of humanity.

 

[MisterSlave]

People are people.

I have a function within the Society of my people. I think that it can be agreed that education is important. The Op. Asked if god is against homosexuality. I responded to this thread before regarding that question. Several times, in fact. I offered my perspective as a Native American and a Shaman. Within my people, I have a responsibility to help educate youth. Given cultural context, How would someone respond? I have talked about 2 soul people and the traditions of my people. It would be ignorant to think that there are not people entering adulthood who identify as Gay or Bisexual for that matter.

It can be said that Native Americans are an ethnic minority within the bounds of the USA. I choose to help educate LGBTQ as well as Native Americans and Mixed race people who wish to learn more about the customs and traditions of (our people), that regardless of (religious) association, can at least be appreciated for anthropological value.