Is God against homosexuality?

Brodie888

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Actually that is what we do see. There just is not the wide continuum of diversity of creatures, that we should expect from an evolutionary "creation", that is, if evolution could even work at all. If humans evolved from apes, then where are the transitional forms now? We have apes, we have humans. Why would not the gradual-changing creatures, also have survival advantages over mere apes? Or if humans and apes shared a common ancestor, then the same argument?

Why do we see that creatures reproduce after their kind? Well didn't I read that, in the Bible? Why should evolution limit itself to reproducing after their kind, if all life goes back to the same supposed ancestors? Many creatures can not inter-reproduce at all, for the numbers of chromosomes are incompatible. What is it? You breed a horse with a donkey and you get a mule, and a mule is sterile? Yet all the time, I hear evolutionists talking about "species" and calling humans a "species" like they do not even know what the word means. "Species" is far more specific than "kind," and their were pairs of each "kind" on Noah's Ark. How could they possibly all fit? Well there are not near so many kinds as there are species.
Everything you wrote is ignorant rubbish that you've made up in your head. With current gene mapping, it is very clear. Every question you pose is easily found if you just look. It's very easy to google basic high school science if you don't want to read scientific papers or text books.
 

Brodie888

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And why not? The 3 branches of government: the legislative, the executive, and the judicial, comes from a verse in Isaiah, that talks about God being our King, our lawgiver, and our judge. Of course, if you don't like that, then maybe we could just abolish our government, and make me to be the king?

God created man and woman. So why wouldn't God be qualified to tell us what marriage shall be?
Yeah let's ignore the constitution (the first amendment to be precise). Considering just about any nutcase can start a religion eg L Ron Hubbard, which version of God would you say is the most qualified? OH! the one true god right? Hahaha. That's what they all believe.
 

Brodie888

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The leaders of the radical homosexuals, admit that what they want is not "marriage equality" at all, but rather to destroy marriage. Also, God has already defined marriage as between a man and a woman. We do not need any "re-definition" or perversion of that.

I resent the hypocritical mandatory wearing of seatbelt laws, and still government monopoly school buses lack seatbelts, but I wear a seatbelt due to the safety benefits. I wear the seatbelt even on the airplane, throughout most of the flight, for you never know when the plane might hit some turbulence or when something might happen.

BTW, isn't it Islam that forced women to cover their heads?

And if you want government out of the bedroom, then we can not tell people how many children they can have. Forget about the mad-scientist nightmare of imposing population control upon people.
Marriage predates the Christianity. In actual fact, gay unions also predate Christianity. It's just another celebration that religions have hijacked such as the pagan winter and spring celebrations they now call Christmas and Easter.
 
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pronatalist

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Marriage predates the Christianity. In actual fact, gay unions also predate Christianity. It's just another celebration that religions have hijacked such as the pagan winter and spring celebrations they now call Christmas and Easter.

Many believers do not even much celebrate those still-pagan holidays, but prefer the holy days and feasts, found in the Bible. What really would pagan fertility cults and eggs and rabbits, have to do with the resurrection of Jesus, or Yeshua, as many believer Jews call him? Why not Passover, and not Easter? Why not Chanukah, and not Christ-mass, which sounds to perhaps be, an invention of the Catholics?

"Oh idolatry, oh idolatry," a few fellow believers at a church I used to go to, would sing mockingly at the pagan Christmas tree tradition. And an evangelist said that they put their presents around a manger. Do you even want to know what horrible pagan practice, the Christmas tree red ball ornaments represents? I will let you Google it if you want, as somebody told me something of the story, and I just do not remember it well enough to tell it second-hand.

God created marriage back in Genesis with Adam and Eve. Marriage does not predate Christianity, if you could Christianity as an outgrowth of Judaism, as it would be correctly viewed.

And funny, I would have talked of all the stuff that the pagans have hijacked.
 
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Many believers do not even much celebrate those still-pagan holidays, but prefer the holy days and feasts, found in the Bible. What really would pagan fertility cults and eggs and rabbits, have to do with the resurrection of Jesus, or Yeshua, as many believer Jews call him? Why not Passover, and not Easter? Why not Chanukah, and not Christ-mass, which sounds to perhaps be, an invention of the Catholics?

"Oh idolatry, oh idolatry," a few fellow believers at a church I used to go to, would sing mockingly at the pagan Christmas tree tradition. And an evangelist said that they put their presents around a manger. Do you even want to know what horrible pagan practice, the Christmas tree red ball ornaments represents? I will let you Google it if you want, as somebody told me something of the story, and I just do not remember it well enough to tell it second-hand.

God created marriage back in Genesis with Adam and Eve. Marriage does not predate Christianity, if you could Christianity as an outgrowth of Judaism, as it would be correctly viewed.

And funny, I would have talked of all the stuff that the pagans have hijacked.


pronatalist.

I have removed my Like from one of your previous comments. Your positions on marriage, God, the Bible, and homosexual equality are contrary to both critical thinking and a meaningful understanding of Christian writings.

You make the common mistake of giving all comments made in the Bible the same importance. This demonstrated a serious lack of perspective.

You point to the Adam and Eve story and conclude that it demonstrates the only possibility for marriage. In doing so, you totally limit God when you conclude that just because he made mention of one cultural practice at one point in time that he automatically excluded any another. If the story had mentioned that Eve had dark hair, I wonder how many blonds would have been persecuted through the ages by people with your kind of thinking?

Christian thought doesn't expect you to be perfect. It just wants you to give serious consideration to what is says. Further, being an unbeliever doesn't disqualify you from benefiting from its teachings. Just like studying math or science, they are intended to improve your options at a better future.

The worst thing that has happened to Christianity is religion. Religion says: change and you can join us. Christ says; consider my thoughts and you will change. There's a huge difference.

Please do some biblical homework and consider what is meant by the term “ stumbling block to understanding”.
 

pronatalist

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pronatalist.

I have removed my Like from one of your previous comments. Your positions on marriage, God, the Bible, and homosexual equality are contrary to both critical thinking and a meaningful understanding of Christian writings.

You make the common mistake of giving all comments made in the Bible the same importance. This demonstrated a serious lack of perspective.

You point to the Adam and Eve story and conclude that it demonstrates the only possibility for marriage. In doing so, you totally limit God when you conclude that just because he made mention of one cultural practice at one point in time that he automatically excluded any another. If the story had mentioned that Eve had dark hair, I wonder how many blonds would have been persecuted through the ages by people with your kind of thinking?

Christian thought doesn't expect you to be perfect. It just wants you to give serious consideration to what is says. Further, being an unbeliever doesn't disqualify you from benefiting from its teachings. Just like studying math or science, they are intended to improve your options at a better future.

The worst thing that has happened to Christianity is religion. Religion says: change and you can join us. Christ says; consider my thoughts and you will change. There's a huge difference.

Please do some biblical homework and consider what is meant by the term “ stumbling block to understanding”.

"Homosexual equality" is an obvious oxymoron. Perversion can not be "equal" with morality. Read Romans 1. It explains it. Birth control also would appear to be a sexual perversion.
 

pronatalist

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Nope. Not in the slightest. Just pointing to how extreme your views are is all. And boy are they extreme. :p

How are my pro-life views extreme? Not long ago, most everybody thought more like that. People on the right did not move farther right. Rather the left moved even more extremely left.
 

wnjcwjkk

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For the TPDR folks, my answer is no.

These are just my thoughts on the subject of God, and is in no way, meant to sound like I know wtf I'm talking about. We're all lost on the subject of God.



I think too damn often, the concept of God can be used to manipulate others or to push an agenda. You gotta be really careful about how you interpret what your spiritual leaders are telling you. It's one reason why I feel like Religion is a dangerous concept, and Spirituality should be a personal thing.

Usually when people say things like "The Word Of The Lord tells us that this is wrong..." They are trying to exert some kind of control.

It's a hard thing to put into words, but my personal Spirituality is that God is the nature of existence, the entirety of every single thing we perceive in our consciousness. God sees us outside of the confines of space or time.

One thing that happens in Religion, and it's completely natural, humans develop such a simplistic view of God, it's the only way that so many of us know how to think or understand such an enormous concept as Existence. So, to make it more easy to understand, as well as easy to communicate to others, people start to personify God using human concepts. For example, Pride. "God needs to be acknowledged and worshipped by us, or you will be punished." Or God is a He, or God has opinions on moral issues.

I think there are three possibilities.

1. God views the entirety of human existence with as much interest as It would view a chemical reaction between two atoms. We are here for a little while, soon we will be wiped off the face of the planet, and Existence will continue as if we were never here.

2. God views things in terms of Positive and Negative. Every single action we as humans do, ripples out into the world and has either a Positive or Negative impact. Do we as Americans feel more entitled to God's favor than, say, a starving child in Africa? Our narcissistic, materialistic, "As long as I'm comfortable, fuck the rest of the world" culture seems to reflect that we do feel that way. And I'm part of that, too. Every day we, as a country, wake up and focus on our own needs and desires while turning a blind eye to the horrors of the world, it is spitting in the face of our Creator, but that's okay because we get dressed up and go to Church every week, to make sure we are seen praying to God. In this case, the only way to truly please God would be to collectively, as a human race, drop all our materialistic shit, and try our best to make sure that the basic needs of every human being on the planet are met, then work from there towards spiritual enlightenment. In which case, we're fucked.

3. God is represented by the entirety of human consciousness. Every one of our individual consciousness is just a shard or fragment of the overall collective consciousness that is God. In which case, I think God is being poisoned from the inside out, becoming more narcissistic and less spiritual every day, which is a scary thought, or remaining stagnant, just going around in circles, and not moving towards anything.


Either way, God couldn't care less about homosexuality. It's a non issue.



And let's just say, for argument's sake, homosexuality is wrong at it's core, because it is "unnatural" (which is bullshit I think), It's no more unnatural or wrong than anything else we do, as humans, in pursuit of our own desires, and it is so far below things like violence, murder, rape, terror, destruction, suffering, etc. that it should be the least of our priorities.
 

pronatalist

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For the TPDR folks, my answer is no.

These are just my thoughts on the subject of God, and is in no way, meant to sound like I know wtf I'm talking about. We're all lost on the subject of God.



I think too damn often, the concept of God can be used to manipulate others or to push an agenda. You gotta be really careful about how you interpret what your spiritual leaders are telling you. It's one reason why I feel like Religion is a dangerous concept, and Spirituality should be a personal thing.

Usually when people say things like "The Word Of The Lord tells us that this is wrong..." They are trying to exert some kind of control.

It's a hard thing to put into words, but my personal Spirituality is that God is the nature of existence, the entirety of every single thing we perceive in our consciousness. God sees us outside of the confines of space or time.

One thing that happens in Religion, and it's completely natural, humans develop such a simplistic view of God, it's the only way that so many of us know how to think or understand such an enormous concept as Existence. So, to make it more easy to understand, as well as easy to communicate to others, people start to personify God using human concepts. For example, Pride. "God needs to be acknowledged and worshipped by us, or you will be punished." Or God is a He, or God has opinions on moral issues.

I think there are three possibilities.

1. God views the entirety of human existence with as much interest as It would view a chemical reaction between two atoms. We are here for a little while, soon we will be wiped off the face of the planet, and Existence will continue as if we were never here.

2. God views things in terms of Positive and Negative. Every single action we as humans do, ripples out into the world and has either a Positive or Negative impact. Do we as Americans feel more entitled to God's favor than, say, a starving child in Africa? Our narcissistic, materialistic, "As long as I'm comfortable, fuck the rest of the world" culture seems to reflect that we do feel that way. And I'm part of that, too. Every day we, as a country, wake up and focus on our own needs and desires while turning a blind eye to the horrors of the world, it is spitting in the face of our Creator, but that's okay because we get dressed up and go to Church every week, to make sure we are seen praying to God. In this case, the only way to truly please God would be to collectively, as a human race, drop all our materialistic shit, and try our best to make sure that the basic needs of every human being on the planet are met, then work from there towards spiritual enlightenment. In which case, we're fucked.

3. God is represented by the entirety of human consciousness. Every one of our individual consciousness is just a shard or fragment of the overall collective consciousness that is God. In which case, I think God is being poisoned from the inside out, becoming more narcissistic and less spiritual every day, which is a scary thought, or remaining stagnant, just going around in circles, and not moving towards anything.


Either way, God couldn't care less about homosexuality. It's a non issue.



And let's just say, for argument's sake, homosexuality is wrong at it's core, because it is "unnatural" (which is bullshit I think), It's no more unnatural or wrong than anything else we do, as humans, in pursuit of our own desires, and it is so far below things like violence, murder, rape, terror, destruction, suffering, etc. that it should be the least of our priorities.

What is wrong with this picture? It would be funny, if it was not so much like, how condescending and arrogant uninformed American morons commonly see the world.

according-to-americans.jpg
 

keenobserver

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"Homosexual equality" is an obvious oxymoron. Perversion can not be "equal" with morality. Read Romans 1. It explains it. Birth control also would appear to be a sexual perversion.

Homosexual behavior and desire is a norm of humanity. It has existed as long as warm blooded creatures have been on the planet, therefore it cannot be a perversion. Romans was written by a man who used to kill Christians for a living before that day on the road to Damascus. Why don't you quote from Ted Bundy's Letter to Seattle - it is just as credible. Not everything in the Bible is equal or as clear as you claim it is. The Bible is silent on the subject of condoms and birth control. Even the so called prohibition against masturbation is a theological error. Onan's sin was not spilling his seed on the ground for pleasure, it was in refusing God's order to screw his sister-in-law. He felt it was wrong. Makes you wonder who the moral authority was, God or Onan.
 

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How are my pro-life views extreme? Not long ago, most everybody thought more like that. People on the right did not move farther right. Rather the left moved even more extremely left.

I do not have a problem with "pro-life." In your case I assume you mean mainly anti-abortion. I disagree but accept that your view is sincerely held and based on religious conviction. I'm not going to argue against your belief - neither of us would change our point of view. However, in a earlier post you alluded to the idea that using birth control is a perversion. I fail to see how taking responsibility for making sure intimacy does not lead to unwanted children is a perversion. I would call it good citizenship. Being financially unable to take on a child should not force one into celibacy. Being anti-birth control (short of abortion) is the reason why so many people reject the role of the church in their lives. Your rigidity drives away the people who would benefit from the teachings of the church the most.
 

pronatalist

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I do not have a problem with "pro-life." In your case I assume you mean mainly anti-abortion. I disagree but accept that your view is sincerely held and based on religious conviction. I'm not going to argue against your belief - neither of us would change our point of view. However, in a earlier post you alluded to the idea that using birth control is a perversion. I fail to see how taking responsibility for making sure intimacy does not lead to unwanted children is a perversion. I would call it good citizenship. Being financially unable to take on a child should not force one into celibacy. Being anti-birth control (short of abortion) is the reason why so many people reject the role of the church in their lives. Your rigidity drives away the people who would benefit from the teachings of the church the most.

Regardless whether birth control is supposedly a perversion or not, it can not be denied that huge numbers of people do hold to practical, philosophical, cultural, and religious objections to birth control, and there surely are personal choice and other reasons for many people to reject birth control.

I did not say that it should force married people into celibacy. Like most people, I do not consider abstinence as being practical for married couples. Thus, the idea of more people having possibly having naturally-big must be much more considered and accepted. Without fertility control, it seems likely that more families will grow bigger and will grow much faster. And this is why I am such an advocate of a human-denser earth. As there really is no basis to hinder the natural growth of human populations, which are already dramatically growing in many regions of the world. As every human life is of immense value and sacred, I believe that humans should not restrain their fertility. No sex until marriage. After marriage, babies.

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pronatalist

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Homosexual behavior and desire is a norm of humanity. It has existed as long as warm blooded creatures have been on the planet, therefore it cannot be a perversion. Romans was written by a man who used to kill Christians for a living before that day on the road to Damascus. Why don't you quote from Ted Bundy's Letter to Seattle - it is just as credible. Not everything in the Bible is equal or as clear as you claim it is. The Bible is silent on the subject of condoms and birth control. Even the so called prohibition against masturbation is a theological error. Onan's sin was not spilling his seed on the ground for pleasure, it was in refusing God's order to screw his sister-in-law. He felt it was wrong. Makes you wonder who the moral authority was, God or Onan.

You used the word perversion. Well "perversion" is a question of morality. For definition and guidance on morality, where else would I go, but to the Bible? But perhaps many Christians may not like, that Romans 1 not only speaks against going against the natural use in the case of homosexuality, but couldn't birth control also fit into what Romans 1 speaks of?

Paul was much more a Christian convert, than Constantine was, yet all that Sunday-keeping stuff seems to come from Constantine, who brought in quite a lot of paganism with his supposed conversion. Should we actually be calling Paul a Christian, considering that he was a Jew? But Jews who do not believe Messiah has already come, seem to reject the New Testament, thus Paul and other writers of the New Testament, are somewhat inaccurately considered to be Christians, although most of them were Jews and their religion was Judaism. Well that is a complicated subject.

But wouldn't it be more accurate to say, that reproductive desire is a norm of humanity? Trendiness can not be an accurate measure of what is a perversion or not, as that ignores moral considerations. It is not defined by popular trends or votes, but by what the Creator of the world, God says. When parents say to their children, "Because I said so," they are largely right, because the parents do have the authority.

The Bible does not once use the word abortion. Yet the Bible clearly says, Thou shalt not kill, thus abortion is wrong. The Bible does speak against birth control, where it says, Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth, and subdue it. Surely birth control is rebellion against that commandment. What exactly Onan did wrong, seems to be the subject of much debate, and I personally think that Onan was quite wicked, and his "pulling out" was the final straw, and God had have enough of Onan's crap. But a lot of people of faith, do associate Onan with the possible sin of "spilling one's seed" which does seem to be contrary to human life anyway. Perhaps it is partially why Catholicism still pushes either having big families or rhythm (NFP), as the only means of so-called "family planning". Even clergyman Thomas Malthus, due to his religious belief, only accepted "the temporary unhappiness of abstinence," as the only moral means of human fertility control. But like most people, I do not consider abstinence as practical for married people.

Onan's objection was not what you said it was. You need to read it in the context of the law and customs that they were under. I wanted to say Mosaic law, but the passage is Genesis 38, and as I recall, I think Moses enters the scene slightly later. Onan was being selfish, as the child would not be seen so much as his. Back then, to be barren of children was a terrible thing, and still in many cultures, people have children for "old age security" among other concerns. His brother died having left her no seed. I think had I found myself in Onan's situation, it would have perhaps been a cool license for sex without the responsibility, so why not then, why not cum in her baby hole, so long as she isn't some awful bitch and she has no STDs? But it could be that I don't so much understand the issue either, and maybe he would been the recognized father and have responsibility and be married to her, in addition to his already-wife?, so that could have seemed a bit much. I also do not fully understand the custom. But Onan must have had some attitude problem, as if his objection was in any way legit, why was he willing to have sex with her at all? He seemed to like the sex, yet be baby-phobic when there probably was no real reason for him to be baby-phobic.

Although many Christians seem to think that the Bible forbids masturbation, I have read the entire Bible, and can find no verse that forbids it. The closest I can find, would be Jesus saying that if you lust after a woman, you have committed adultery in your heart. What exactly does that mean concerning masturbation? No visual aids perhaps? Or should a person not look at their penis, even when they are in the bathtub naked? Or should you not hold your penis to aim it during peeing? May we shake the dribbles of urine out of the penis but only 3 times, and the 4th is somehow deemed sin? Or would it be the 5th? However, if at all reasonably possible, semen should be released into the vagina of one's wife, and not spilled or wasted, because it does contain the very real potential of human life, and that is something very sacred. As a pro-lifer, I believe that people should not pull out, and also that people should not try to control their fertility, but rather allow human life to freely grow and spread, worldwide. In the KJV, it is called "the seed of copulation." Notable is the word "seed". Also, I think that more people should marry younger, if they are ready, so as to have a proper natural and moral outlet for the powerful reproductive urges, and to help avoid sexual sins and things like babies born outside of wedlock. That is also why are ancestors, not long ago at all, married off their children young.

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im a christian man and recently discovered that im gay as well. but ive been raised to believe God is against homosexuality. any views or experience on this?

That depends on whether or not you are a biblical literalist.

If you are a biblical literalist, then yes, your religion is undeniably against homosexuality. Of course, if the biblical literalists were really as literalist as they claim, they would also kill people for eating shellfish, which none of them do, so even if you are part of a literalist denomination/tradition, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I guess the larger question is this: exactly how homophobic is your particular Christian community? If they are homophobic, do you really want to associate with them? Is whatever you get out of Christianity really worth subjecting yourself to that kind of self-image damage? Some Christian communities can be pretty vicious about this stuff.
 

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That depends on whether or not you are a biblical literalist.

If you are a biblical literalist, then yes, your religion is undeniably against homosexuality. Of course, if the biblical literalists were really as literalist as they claim, they would also kill people for eating shellfish, which none of them do, so even if you are part of a literalist denomination/tradition, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I guess the larger question is this: exactly how homophobic is your particular Christian community? If they are homophobic, do you really want to associate with them? Is whatever you get out of Christianity really worth subjecting yourself to that kind of self-image damage? Some Christian communities can be pretty vicious about this stuff.

Actually that is not true, as the issue of preserving human life, ranks above that of keeping kosher. It is better to eat food that is not kosher, than to starve. As to whether such things as pig, should even be called food, seems debatable depending on who you talk to. If that interpretation is correct, then failing to keep to kosher dietary guidelines, is likely not a capital offense. However, murder would be. See Genesis 9:6.

There are variations of kosher. Many Messianic congregations are only biblically kosher, but not rabbinically kosher. That means, they follow what the Bible says, but do not agree with certain rabbinic interpretations. Thus, cheese with beef is allowed. There is a verse in the Bible that says not to seethe a calf in its mother's milk, which sounds like something very cruel to do. Well I see no relationship to that, and a cheeseburger, as the cheese probably did not even come from the same farm as the beef. Some Jews are very strict about kosher, and can not eat dairy and meat products in the same meal, or do not even use the same refrigerator or stove for both, requiring special kitchens with diary and meat sections being kept separate, even separate baking dishes, but I see nothing in the Bible requiring any of that.

You should also keep in mind, that both Christianity and Judaism, do not do forced conversions, as Islam attempts to. Both believe that you should convert by choice, and not by force. Although many matters of morality obviously must include both believers and non-believers, what about the matter of kosher, requires this? Many matters, seem to be answerable more to God, than to the church or synagogue, and definitely the government has not much to say (no jurisdiction) about many things.

Homo-phobic is an invalid word, as it implies things that make no sense. A better word, that you may have noticed me, saying, is population-phobic. People do not "decide" to be highly populous, they just are. As our ancestors believed, population is what it is. There are problems with trying to cite individual people for collective sins, as I as an individual, can not control what the collective does. What is this I hear about London trying to charge people "congestion" fees of motorists? One person does not cause traffic congestion, so why fault individuals for problems caused by poor road design or by corrupt politicians? Also, I can not fault India for having such a huge population, as huge population is not a sin, nor does having 10 children cause the population to be huge.