Is homophobic not wanting to see gay people kissing in public?

[runstoprestore]

It's not like people making disparaging remarks about old people sex is uncommon. At this point it's a lot more mainstream than making disparaging remarks about homosex.



What part is difficult? Lol, the arrogance. I'm not having any difficulties beyond trying to explain to you how you're in error.

Discriminatory behavior is phobia? So englad doesn't understand what "ignorance" is, and apparently you do not understand what "phobia" is.

And what discriminatory behavior is in play? Someone saying they don't like someone, and not spontaneously at that, but specifically when asked? How is that "behavior"? How is a passive taste or preference a behavior? And how is it discriminatory in any socially relevant sense? All of our tastes are discriminatory in the most crude sense of the term.

She doesn't have an issue with a straight couple expressing affection, she does have an issue with a gay couple. Her behaviour relates to the sexuality of the other couple. Discrimination.

You clearly don't get it, so I won't waste my time being subject to your air of superiority.

 

[LICNYCgay]

So hi, today a question was brought up by me to my BFF that knows I'm bi and I asked how do you feel about gay people in public... And she told me that she doesn't like seeing gay guys holding or kissing each other, so I got offended and turned defensive real fast.. So then I asked her how do you feel about straight people who legit make out with each other out in public like no one is watching ( I hope you get what I mean, like people that go over the extreme and at some point is disgusting) and she told me that it was fine Cuz she could relate... I WENT NUTS... Oh BTW disclaimer that the relationship she is into right now is toxic in many ways... So I start wondering is she homophobic or just something else...?

Yes. Yes she is.

 

[malakos]

She doesn't have an issue with a straight couple expressing affection, she does have an issue with a gay couple. Her behaviour relates to the sexuality of the other couple. Discrimination.

You clearly don't get it, so I won't waste my time being subject to your air of superiority.

To speak of discrimination may have some consequence and coherence when we speak of actions that have an serious and have real and serious impact on others. But as I said, effectively any favoring or disfavoring of tastes can technically be spoken of as "discrimination". Just because you can technically call this discrimination in the loosest sense doesn't mean anything significant. Of what consequence is it if someone finds homosexuality distasteful, and further, reveals this when they are asked (she did not volunteer the information)?

 

[MisterB]

@KV23 : First, thanks for taking the time to create this thread. Second, I've read through the comments so far, and I'll say they've been interesting and thought provoking.

Personally, I am no fan of public PDA. At all. Straight, gay, bi- and everything else. I'm a time and place guy, and PDA's are not appropriate. Period.

Now, to your question: Is you female friend a homophobe? Rather than tackle that specific question, how about this: This person is not your friend, period. At all. She's a me me me person. Evident from what you've posted about her here.

She likes that which "she can relate to". WTF does that even mean? I'm not straight, but I can relate to straight folks I know and their struggles with raising a family, conceiving a child, balancing home/work life, whatever. Shit, I can relate to anyone facing these struggles. But I don't know these struggles personally, but I can understand due to my ability to empathize. Your friend seems to be lacking in any ability to empathize.

Your life struggles are in no way as "difficult" for you as hers have been; hers have been "maximal" and yours have been "minimal". Isn't that sweet? But this isn't about her. It's about you. No friend I've ever had would say such nonsense to me, let alone think it. She's not your friend. She's simply someone you know. You need to kick this person to the curb. Today. And don't look back.

She's toxic. You said you and she did not speak for a period of time and it was helpful to you. Now you're speaking to her again and she's been unhelpful. No, she's being selfish. It's all about her. Period.

You said you have a stressful month coming up; why would you NOT eliminate her from your life IF she's causing you stress? Don't get that.

Life is too short not to be happy. Only YOU get to decide what makes you happy. If her out of your life does that, then that's what you do. Take charge of your life. You only get one go on this wild merry-go-round called life. When someone gets in my way of seizing the brass ring, they are toast. History. But that's ME. I don't suffer fools, And I don't suffer people like your friend in my life.

Hear that sound: Whoosh? That's what you hear when I've "drop-kicked" the toxic folks from my life. And I have. Never had one regret. Why? Cuz, like I said above, Life's too short not to be happy. Does this woman's "friendship" make you happy? That's the real question here. Cuz I swear with friends like her, you sure don't need any enemies!

Good Luck!

 

[KV23]

@KV23 : First, thanks for taking the time to create this thread. Second, I've read through the comments so far, and I'll say they've been interesting and thought provoking.

Personally, I am no fan of public PDA. At all. Straight, gay, bi- and everything else. I'm a time and place guy, and PDA's are not appropriate. Period.

Now, to your question: Is you female friend a homophobe? Rather than tackle that specific question, how about this: This person is not your friend, period. At all. She's a me me me person. Evident from what you've posted about her here.

She likes that which "she can relate to". WTF does that even mean? I'm not straight, but I can relate to straight folks I know and their struggles with raising a family, conceiving a child, balancing home/work life, whatever. Shit, I can relate to anyone facing these struggles. But I don't know these struggles personally, but I can understand due to my ability to empathize. Your friend seems to be lacking in any ability to empathize.

Your life struggles are in no way as "difficult" for you as hers have been; hers have been "maximal" and yours have been "minimal". Isn't that sweet? But this isn't about her. It's about you. No friend I've ever had would say such nonsense to me, let alone think it. She's not your friend. She's simply someone you know. You need to kick this person to the curb. Today. And don't look back.

She's toxic. You said you and she did not speak for a period of time and it was helpful to you. Now you're speaking to her again and she's been unhelpful. No, she's being selfish. It's all about her. Period.

You said you have a stressful month coming up; why would you NOT eliminate her from your life IF she's causing you stress? Don't get that.

Life is too short not to be happy. Only YOU get to decide what makes you happy. If her out of your life does that, then that's what you do. Take charge of your life. You only get one go on this wild merry-go-round called life. When someone gets in my way of seizing the brass ring, they are toast. History. But that's ME. I don't suffer fools, And I don't suffer people like your friend in my life.

Hear that sound: Whoosh? That's what you hear when I've "drop-kicked" the toxic folks from my life. And I have. Never had one regret. Why? Cuz, like I said above, Life's too short not to be happy. Does this woman's "friendship" make you happy? That's the real question here. Cuz I swear with friends like her, you sure don't need any enemies!

Good Luck!

Thank you very very much, you are being clear and I can totally understand your point of view that I have to say I agree with. Having her not in my life was a big step that felt great, but when she came back all that greatness just turned into stress... And as I person I always just draw this negativity into me. So yeah I think you are legit for what you said... Thanks again

 

[Gtor]

So hi, today a question was brought up by me to my BFF that knows I'm bi and I asked how do you feel about gay people in public... And she told me that she doesn't like seeing gay guys holding or kissing each other, so I got offended and turned defensive real fast.. So then I asked her how do you feel about straight people who legit make out with each other out in public like no one is watching ( I hope you get what I mean, like people that go over the extreme and at some point is disgusting) and she told me that it was fine Cuz she could relate... I WENT NUTS... Oh BTW disclaimer that the relationship she is into right now is toxic in many ways... So I start wondering is she homophobic or just something else...?

Hi, I also have to say that I hate public displays of affection (beyond kiss on the cheeks). I can, however, understand why you felt offended. If it were me, though, I wouldn't cut her off - how can you change attitudes if you avoid people? Real BFFs don't grow on trees and are accepting of each other, she says she can't "relate" directly, but maybe you can educate her to realize that she surely could relate on some level (love, affection etc is something that if you're human, you should be able to relate to) and she needs to be a bit more empathetic to be accepting of everyone and to see that she has been very insensitive towards yiu personally. I don't think you should necessarily condemn her as homophobic as that is not going to get your relationship anywhere or change her attitude. When they go low, you go high!

 

[863995]

100% homophobic, I'm not a fan of seeing kissing in public in general (when it's more than just a quick peck on the lips/cheek) but if she has no issue with straight couples doing it but does with gay, that's definitely homophobia.

I'd try to educate and change minds first but if there's not any positive progress I'd ditch that sort of ''friend" if I were you.

 

[steamyman]

"I don't mind gay people so long as they act straight in public". "Why do you need to kiss your boyfriend in public?".

Those sorts of attitudes are homophobic. You can't claim to be for equal rights, then deny one section of society the freedom to do the same as the rest.

Two men or two women kissing in public doesn't directly affect her. If seeing that offends her, it's her problem, not anyone else, but until people stop saying things like that, then homophobia will continue.

 

[malakos]

You can't claim to be for equal rights...

I don't recall her saying that homosexuals don't have a right to makeout in public, or anything even remotely like that.

 

[OKCLane]

So? You're honestly going to tell us that hypocrisy warrants "going nuts"?? If that's the case we should all being going nuts 24/7. We're all hypocrites to some extent.



Having different tests does not merit reference to the notion of phobia. I probably wouldn't enjoy watching people with Down's making out, but that doesn't mean I hate or fear people with Down's.



You're intolerant of people having differing tastes... good for you, I guess?



Again... double standards are unacceptable on principle? You realize how broad double standards are...?



Ignorance? I don't think that means what you think it means.



She doesn't need one. She just said she doesn't like it. It rubs her the wrong way. Hearing marbles rubbing together drives me up the wall. I don't have any reason for that, nor do I need one. Matters of taste don't need to be scrutinized like this.

I agree with your posts (that I see) most of the time but you’re scrutinizing everyone’s response and then complain that they are scrutinizing tastes.
Just because double standards and hypocrisy exists doesn’t make it wrong to point it out when you see it.
Saying “just because” to support a position isn’t valid after your 13th birthday. Her position is clearly homophobic.
Your Downs comment doesn’t make sense to me. I’m a gay man, I’m not thrilled when I’m in line and the straight couple in front of me is playing tongue hockey but that’s part of life.
My husband and I go on gay cruises because it’s the only time we’re the majority. We get to enjoy the same things that straight couples take for granted like holding hands, sitting side by side at dinner, or kissing in public.
The fact that the poster called her his BFF puts the relationship into a completely different category than a simple acquaintance or stranger for that matter.
I honestly don’t want to get into a back and forth or pursue an endless discussion where toes get stepped on. I appreciate you too much for that but couldn’t help but respond.
I respect your position as I know you respect others.

 

[Andrue]

I really appreciate that but I will probably delete this thread in a bit.

Why? Please don't. It may help out someone else later on who has the same sort of issue to deal with.
Leave it for others to read, there's nothing that requires deleting here, like names or anything identifiable.

But obviously if you ask her she is gonna state the fact that she is not a homophobic...

Irrelevant. Her opinion of her own self is clearly off the mark since she is being homophobic, even if not in a "beat them up" or "fire them from their jobs or boot them out of their apartment" kinda way.

That she likes to think she isn't homophobic doesn't change what she is actually saying: it's OK for a straight couple to do but not for a gay couple. That's bigotry based on the hypothetical couple's homosexuality. Ergo: she's being homophobic.

If she's causing stress in your life, even if it had nothing to do with this specific issue, you'd be warranted to drop her "friendship", for what it is. She's a negative force for you, she's not bringing a positive attitude into your life. Show her the door.

My ex had a friend who, the very first time I met her (they were roommates at that point) I immediately got the impression she was entirely focussed on herself. He's in bed, sick as a dog with a cold or flue thing and I'm there taking care of him, she walks in and is completely oblivious to the fact he's sweating like a horse, pale as a ghost and she just goes on and on about how her day's been. I was, needless to say, not getting a good first impression here. I mentioned this to him a while later and several meeting on - we had just started seeing each other and were still getting to know each other - and he said he didn't see it. OK... So he's a sweet, kind guy who can't see problems in people. So I stayed friendly if a little distant from her for the next few years. Well, it literally took 40 years for him to finally come to the same conclusion after countless situations where she'd shown her real stripes over and over, and he finally had it to "here!!" with her selfishness. He just told her off, ran through several examples of her selfish problems, and killed that relationship.

Don't be like that. Do it now before you waste any more brain power thinking about it.

Do it for you. And don't try to "fix" her. You need her out of your circles much more than you need her to get an education. She needs one, for sure, but it's not your duty to give her that, especially is she's too self-centred to really absorb what you hope she'll see. Let someone else tackle that if they feel the need.

Good luck to you. Be strong be direct - no need to be nasty - but be definite: This relationship has no foundation and she's toxic. Get rid of it and detoxify.

 

[englad]

So? You're honestly going to tell us that hypocrisy warrants "going nuts"?? If that's the case we should all being going nuts 24/7. We're all hypocrites to some extent.

Certainly, because it is a hypocrisy that is bigotry related. The bigotry is clear because she doesn't have a problem with PDA itself, only with PDA between two men. It's hard to read that as anything else. Especially considering she has a problem with light affectionate PDA between two men, but doesn't have a problem with heavy, more sexualised PDA between two men.

Having different tests does not merit reference to the notion of phobia. I probably wouldn't enjoy watching people with Down's making out, but that doesn't mean I hate or fear people with Down's.

It certainly does in this context. It isn't a "taste" because she is straight, therefore she is attracted to men, she only has a problem seeing two men kiss. She is however fine seeing a mixed sex couple kiss, that's where the phobia comes in. I have seen shitloads of women kiss each other, I'm not into women, yet I don't have the slightest problem with seeing that, if anything seeing affection between a couple is heart warming. The down's syndrome reference is peculiar in this context (it's odd to compare an inherited chromosonal deficiency with minority sexualities), plus it's not about "enjoying" something, it's about having a problem with something.

You're intolerant of people having differing tastes... good for you, I guess?

Well, why would I want to hang around with a homophobe?! Why would I want to hang out with someone who is "casually distasteful" of my nature?! That is ridiculous, life is way too short for that.

Again... double standards are unacceptable on principle? You realize how broad double standards are...?



Ignorance? I don't think that means what you think it means.

Double standards are always tasteless. This is a particularly shitty double standard. She clearly doesn't have a problem with PDA at all, she can deal with very heavy PDA between a straight couple, however light PDA between a gay couple is a problem. That is simply ignorant, and it was right to bollock her on that.

She doesn't need one. She just said she doesn't like it. It rubs her the wrong way. Hearing marbles rubbing together drives me up the wall. I don't have any reason for that, nor do I need one. Matters of taste don't need to be scrutinized like this.

I don't consider this to be a "matter of taste", she doesn't have a problem with PDA itself. She has a problem with light PDA between certain couples, and you were the one suggesting he was in the wrong for calling her out on her ignorance. I wouldn't rush to defend someone like that. As for marbles, well they clearly aren't related to a form of bigotry, so it's a false comparison to make.

You have nowhere near a sufficient amount of information, either about the OP or his friend, to be making such a judgment.

I can only go with the information that has been provided. He said that he was dealing with family problems and homophobic people. She suggested that dealing with homophobic people (telling this to an LGBT person) is a "minimum problem", that is simply privilege blind and selfish.

 

[submarine]

So hi, today a question was brought up by me to my BFF that knows I'm bi and I asked how do you feel about gay people in public... And she told me that she doesn't like seeing gay guys holding or kissing each other, so I got offended and turned defensive real fast.. So then I asked her how do you feel about straight people who legit make out with each other out in public like no one is watching ( I hope you get what I mean, like people that go over the extreme and at some point is disgusting) and she told me that it was fine Cuz she could relate... I WENT NUTS... Oh BTW disclaimer that the relationship she is into right now is toxic in many ways... So I start wondering is she homophobic or just something else...?

This lassie you know is a bigot, she's homophobic and is really rude and uncaring, the fact she would openly say that to your face is disgraceful. To me there's nothing nicer than seeing an old couple walking in a park or down the street hand in hand, or seeing a young couple giddy in love forgetting the world and living life properly. what a shame for her that she has closed off so much of life just to fit in with the prejudices she's soaked up. You'll be well shot of her in your life once she moves state.

 

[englad]

Especially considering she has a problem with light affectionate PDA between two men, but doesn't have a problem with heavy, more sexualised PDA between an opposite sex couple.


.

Self-correction

 

[Brian S]

I take issue with what she said as well. Not because I give a shit on a personal level, but it reeks of the "they can be gay so long as they don't shove it in our faces" attitude. I don't wanna see any couple getting too carried away in a public setting. The issue is not whether or not she likes it, it's that she thinks she's entitled to an opinion on it at all in the first place.

Let's talk about holding hands or a simple peck - light PDA: I'm not straight but it doesn't bother me to see that. I'm not into fucking 80 year olds, but light PDA wouldn't bother me. In fact, it'd be like, 'Aw, that's sweet'. I don't care if we're talking straight, gay, geriatric, fresh from high school, overweight, black, white, little people, or paraplegics. Or just a gay couple that I'm not attracted to. As long as it's not blowjobs in the park, then I have no right to tell someone not to express their love, and I wouldn't even try. I don't have to find someone attractive or want to join them in order to mind my own fucking business and let people love each other. Which leads me back to her thinking she is entitled to an opinion on it. She is, technically. She can be as uncomfortable as she wants. But it's SHE who's going to have to live with it and figure out how to reconcile it in her head somehow. Because it is quite literally HER problem. I've never understood people who cringe or get upset about a simple act of love between a loving couple. But I guess there are those people out there who just worry so much about everyone else's sex lives.

And yes, it might not be "beating someone to unconsciousness in an alley" type of homophobia, but her double standard IS homophobia.

 

[Serrano]

Oh dear. Imagine you had asked her if she was okay with a white couple kissing in public and she had said "yes".
Then imagine you had asked her if she was okay with a black/mixed race couple kissing in public and she had said 'no'.
Would you have any doubts about wether she was a racist? Hopefully not!
If you want to find out if someone/a statement is a homophobe/homophobic just substitute sexual orientation with race. Works in 99% of all cases.
Confront her. If she doesn't get it, end the friendship.
And to the homophobic 'no response' troll here: you do not get to decide if something is homophobic or not. Homo- and bisexual people get to decide that.

 

[HUNGHUGE11X7]

So I start wondering is she homophobic or just something else...?

Sadly , YES she is, whether she's aware of it or not.
Personally I do not care to see ANYONE in gratuitous PDA, but Man on Man doesn't bother me any more/less than Man on Woman or Woman on Woman.
If someone says they do not mind Hetero PDA but Homoseual PDA offends them, that is Textbook Homophobic.


HH

 

[Silbot.]

Sadly , YES she is, whether she's aware of it or not.
Personally I do not care to see ANYONE in gratuitous PDA, but Man on Man doesn't bother me any more/less than Man on Woman or Woman on Woman.
If someone says they do not mind Hetero PDA but Homoseual PDA offends them, that is Textbook Homophobic.


HH

He took mine.

 

[StormyB]

I mean you maybe shouldn't have reacted so dramatically since it was you who asked her the question and brought it up, after all. However, I would let her know how homophobic that is and my feelings towards our relationship after that remark. That was homophobic, plain and simple, and if it were me, I would drop her from my life with the quickness ( but that's just me, I don't have time for people like that in my life now).

 

[622675]

I will probably delete this thread in a bit..

Please don’t delete the thread. I will comment on it in near term.

However, can you do that and if so how is it done?

I have also had a private conversations deleted. Can I “assume” that the decision to delete it was made by the other party in the conversation?

I have spent a fair amount of time looking through the Q&A on the site without finding an answer.

Thanks