Is it time to Disband the Dept of Homeland Security?

[B_Jordan85]

The whole thing is a lie. When people are afraid they feed the capitalist and military machine. Even this nonsense about "osama bin-laden." If you buy into this crap, go back and do your research leading up to Sept. 11 and beyond. That day began with "war games" involving a "simulated terrorist attack" by NORAD. Coincidence? Look into Building number 7 that randomly collapsed from a free-fall, hours after the destruction (controlled demolition) of the towers. What was housed in that building? Very important CIA and government intelligence. Coincidence?

George Jr., Jeb Bush, Wolfowitz, Cheney, and Rumsfield were members of a think-tank back in the late 90's detailing a "New World Order" and the initiation of "another Perl harbor" to achieve their goals.

THERE are so many more facts and mysterious clues to get into right now. I could write 10 or more pages and I do not want to put forth the effort. This generation of Americans were witnesses to the most corrupt regime in this countries history. A stolen election leading up to brainwash on a massive scale supporting a coup-de-tat and war for oil profit.

Do not run in fear and buy what they are selling you. Do your own research into the truth. It takes time and effort but it is enlightening. It is not "anti-american" to think in these ways or conspiracy banter, but on the contrary, extremely Patriotic. Good night, good luck and God bless.

 

[parr]

It's really amazing how people choose to live in fear.
There will always be some crackshot that "wants to destroy the country". Most of them couldn't even knock down a pin in a bowling alley with a wrecking ball. The few that could actually pose a threat can be dealt with using things such as careful intelligence gathering and authorities that actually pay attention to it. We don't need the Department of Homeland Security. In fact, we never needed it.

Thanks Mr. Vinyl I appreciate it.:smile:

 

[parr]

The whole thing is a lie. When people are afraid they feed the capitalist and military machine. Even this nonsense about "osama bin-laden." If you buy into this crap, go back and do your research leading up to Sept. 11 and beyond. That day began with "war games" involving a "simulated terrorist attack" by NORAD. Coincidence? Look into Building number 7 that randomly collapsed from a free-fall, hours after the destruction (controlled demolition) of the towers. What was housed in that building? Very important CIA and government intelligence. Coincidence?

George Jr., Jeb Bush, Wolfowitz, Cheney, and Rumsfield were members of a think-tank back in the late 90's detailing a "New World Order" and the initiation of "another Perl harbor" to achieve their goals.

THERE are so many more facts and mysterious clues to get into right now. I could write 10 or more pages and I do not want to put forth the effort. This generation of Americans were witnesses to the most corrupt regime in this countries history. A stolen election leading up to brainwash on a massive scale supporting a coup-de-tat and war for oil profit.

Do not run in fear and buy what they are selling you. Do your own research into the truth. It takes time and effort but it is enlightening. It is not "anti-american" to think in these ways or conspiracy banter, but on the contrary, extremely Patriotic. Good night, good luck and God bless.

After that what can we do about it.

 

[ActionBuddy]

I'm certain that the White House and the Pentagon are very, earnestly watching this poll.

 

[parr]

I'm certain that the White House and the Pentagon are very, earnestly watching this poll.

Let them maybe they will learn something.:biggrin1:

 

[phillyhangin]

So let's see the video of Ahmet Aboul Gheit saying that on Nile TV. Not someone saying they "heard" that he said it, or "read" it somewhere, a la Donald Trump. The actually video please.

If Ahmed Aboul Gheit said that on a state-owned Egyptian satellite TV network, there would be a video of it somewhere and the right wing, extremist/birther movement in the USA would have found it by now.

So let us see it. Otherwise I call bullshit.

Exactly. Where was the political fallout from this putative revelation? Obama's political opponents would have pounced on something like this in a heartbeat. (Conspiracy theorists could, of course, claim that the "mainstream media" covered it up, but then the fact that they have access to this information indicates that the coverup wasn't very effective.)

My guess is that either it didn't happen and someone just made this up to support their arguments about Obama's "secret Muslim agenda," (my personal opinion) or that it did happen, but major news organizations chose not to pursue it because they viewed Mr. Gheit's comments as unreliable: First off, it's hearsay - we have only Mr. Gheit's word that this conversation actually took place as he describes it (and "unnamed sources speaking on the condition of anonymity" don't count since they can't be independently verified); and secondly, it would be highly unusual - a violation of internationally accepted diplomatic protocol, in fact - for a high-ranking foreign diplomat to casually "out" a sitting head of state like that - especially after he mentions that this was told to him in confidence - which supports the idea that Mr. Gheit's "revelation" was invented (or, for the conspiracy theorists, that Mr. Gheit leaked the information as part of his political agenda, which, unfortunately, doesn't seem to have had much of an effect).

At any rate, this is only loosely connected to the original topic (presumably the intent was to show that DHS is still needed because of Obama's secret Muslim agenda), so to address the actual topic of the post:

I think that DHS (despite its unfortunate name) was actually a good idea because it was intended to serve as a central clearinghouse for counter-terrorism information. In principle, it allows agencies with different jurisdictions (FBI and CIA for example) to share what they gather and to coordinate their actions across their respective jurisdictions. In practice, it hasn't been nearly as effective as it could be simply because there are too many agencies reporting to it, some of which perform duplicate funtions (for example, several agencies perform cryptography "in house," but we also have a separate legacy agency specifically for that) so that sometimes leads to "turf wars."

I think the idea of a central clearinghouse that can coordinate information sharing among the various front-line agencies is a good thing, but I also think that we can consolidate various redundant functions to help streamline the process. Another idea that has been floated is to separate information gathering from analysis, with the front-line agencies focusing on collecting information in their various jurisdictions and carrying out tactical operations, and the DHS focusing on analyzing all of the information holistically and then using it for strategic planning. I can see some benefit to that arrangement because it allows DHS to make connections between data collected by different agencies that the separate agencies might miss in their own analyses, but I'm not certain that there would be any real budget savings.

 

[B_Lightkeeper]

Isn't this the agency run by Janet (somebody)?

 

[FuzzyKen]

From the beginning my problem with D.H.S. has been the complete and total lunacy of creating yet another law enforcement agency when the Government is totally washed in red ink. From the beginning a great deal more could have been accomplished if the Central Intelligence Agency and the Federal Bureau of Investigation had been merged into a single agency. Additional positions could have been created within a now more streamlined organization to deal with the Homeland Security Issues. Right now we have "too many cooks" in the kitchen for efficiency and as a result the sharing of information in an inter-agency basis could be questionable. That is simply human nature to do that and it is also a common problem with "top-heavy" corporations.

I would personally be very much in favor of a streamlining of the Federal Policing system and a merging of agencies. This would save countless dollars for taxpayers and make for better efficiency.

 

[phillyhangin]

From the beginning a great deal more could have been accomplished if the Central Intelligence Agency and the Federal Bureau of Investigation had been merged into a single agency. Additional positions could have been created within a now more streamlined organization to deal with the Homeland Security Issues.

I think that's true, but given the intense pressure on the government to be seen to be doing something about terrorism in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, creating the DHS to bridge the jurisdictions of the legacy agencies (thus adding counter-terrorism agents) instead of combining and streamlining them (possibly reducing the number of agents) probably made the most political sense.

Right now we have "too many cooks" in the kitchen for efficiency and as a result the sharing of information in an inter-agency basis could be questionable.

No arguments here. Like I said, I think it was a good idea to have a framework for sharing information, but in practice, the present system leaves a lot to be desired: Too many agencies, too many redundancies, too many turf wars.

I would personally be very much in favor of a streamlining of the Federal Policing system and a merging of agencies. This would save countless dollars for taxpayers and make for better efficiency.

I think consolidation should definitely be on the table as a cost-cutting option - at least so long as due process continues to apply to domestic ops. Historically, people have been leery of combining the agencies for fear of creating some sort of all-seeing, Orwellian monolith that could use its various divisions to bypass due process requirements; whether or not that fear is actually justified is a different matter altogether, but it's the basis of many of the arguments in favor of keeping the legacy agencies separate.

 

[Stretch]

The whole thing is a lie. When people are afraid they feed the capitalist and military machine. Even this nonsense about "osama bin-laden." If you buy into this crap, go back and do your research leading up to Sept. 11 and beyond. That day began with "war games" involving a "simulated terrorist attack" by NORAD. Coincidence? Look into Building number 7 that randomly collapsed from a free-fall, hours after the destruction (controlled demolition) of the towers. What was housed in that building? Very important CIA and government intelligence. Coincidence?

George Jr., Jeb Bush, Wolfowitz, Cheney, and Rumsfield were members of a think-tank back in the late 90's detailing a "New World Order" and the initiation of "another Perl harbor" to achieve their goals.

THERE are so many more facts and mysterious clues to get into right now. I could write 10 or more pages and I do not want to put forth the effort. This generation of Americans were witnesses to the most corrupt regime in this countries history. A stolen election leading up to brainwash on a massive scale supporting a coup-de-tat and war for oil profit.

Do not run in fear and buy what they are selling you. Do your own research into the truth. It takes time and effort but it is enlightening. It is not "anti-american" to think in these ways or conspiracy banter, but on the contrary, extremely Patriotic. Good night, good luck and God bless.

Yes...You're referring to Project For A New American Century.

Welcome to the Project for the New American Century

Project for the New American Century - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Officially brought forth in 1997, it basically called for American world domination. The chief architects were the usual suspects...Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Steve Forbes, "Scooter" Libby(No grown man should be known as Scooter except MAYBE Phil Rizzuto), with Robert Kagan and William Kristol as the figure heads. Part of their stated agenda at the time was, indeed, the need for a new Pearl Harbor to rally around.

"New Pearl Harbor"

Section V of Rebuilding America's Defenses, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", includes the sentence: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor" (51).[13]
Though arguing that Bush administration PNAC members were complicit in those attacks, other social critics such as commentator Manuel Valenzuela and journalist Mark Danner,[37][38][39] investigative journalist John Pilger, in New Statesman,[40] and former editor of The San Francisco Chronicle Bernard Weiner, in CounterPunch,[41] all argue that PNAC members used the events of 9/11 as the "Pearl Harbor" that they needed––that is, as an "opportunity" to "capitalize on" (in Pilger's words), in order to enact long-desired plans.


Jordan...Have you read the book, Crossing the Rubicon:The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil, from Michael C. Ruppert?


Amazon.com: Crossing the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil (9780865715400): Michael C. Ruppert, Catherine Austin Fitts: Books


In my opinion, the best and most comprehensive study of the events surrounding 9/11. I can't recommend it enough to any open minded person who still thinks for themself.


Just a parting tip: Please don't ever respond to that Nick guy. He comes and goes and his posts are only inane drivel. It's been the same pattern for years...best to ignore him.

 

[B_Nick4444]

OMG!!! The very definition of the word drivel!

posts such as these:

“Arguments advanced by conspiracy theorists tell you more about the believer than about the event,” Goertzel says.

... the inner workings of conspiracy thinking. Such convictions critically depend on what he calls “selective skepticism.” Conspiracy believers are highly doubtful about information from the government or other sources they consider suspect. But, without criticism, believers accept any source that supports their preconceived views, he says.

Over the past 50 years, researchers and observers of social dynamics have traced beliefs in conspiracy theories to feelings of powerlessness, attempts to bolster self-esteem and diminished faith in government. ..."

http://www.usnews.com/science/articles/2009/05/26/the-inner-worlds-of-conspiracy-believers

(When I caught the last sentence of what Stretch had posted, I had a faint, momentary hope of some worthwhile rebuttals to any of my postings, but, alas ...)

I will agree with Jordan, as do many others, that once America dissolves its "entangling alliances" its greatness will outdo its past and current brilliance

The whole thing is a lie. When people are afraid they feed the capitalist and military machine. Even this nonsense about "osama bin-laden." If you buy into this crap, go back and do your research leading up to Sept. 11 and beyond. That day began with "war games" involving a "simulated terrorist attack" by NORAD. Coincidence? Look into Building number 7 that randomly collapsed from a free-fall, hours after the destruction (controlled demolition) of the towers. What was housed in that building? Very important CIA and government intelligence. Coincidence?

George Jr., Jeb Bush, Wolfowitz, Cheney, and Rumsfield were members of a think-tank back in the late 90's detailing a "New World Order" and the initiation of "another Perl harbor" to achieve their goals.

THERE are so many more facts and mysterious clues to get into right now. I could write 10 or more pages and I do not want to put forth the effort. This generation of Americans were witnesses to the most corrupt regime in this countries history. A stolen election leading up to brainwash on a massive scale supporting a coup-de-tat and war for oil profit.

Do not run in fear and buy what they are selling you. Do your own research into the truth. It takes time and effort but it is enlightening. It is not "anti-american" to think in these ways or conspiracy banter, but on the contrary, extremely Patriotic. Good night, good luck and God bless.

Yes...You're referring to Project For A New American Century.

Welcome to the Project for the New American Century

Project for the New American Century - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Officially brought forth in 1997, it basically called for American world domination. The chief architects were the usual suspects...Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Steve Forbes, "Scooter" Libby(No grown man should be known as Scooter except MAYBE Phil Rizzuto), with Robert Kagan and William Kristol as the figure heads. Part of their stated agenda at the time was, indeed, the need for a new Pearl Harbor to rally around.

"New Pearl Harbor"

Section V of Rebuilding America's Defenses, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", includes the sentence: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor" (51).[13]
Though arguing that Bush administration PNAC members were complicit in those attacks, other social critics such as commentator Manuel Valenzuela and journalist Mark Danner,[37][38][39] investigative journalist John Pilger, in New Statesman,[40] and former editor of The San Francisco Chronicle Bernard Weiner, in CounterPunch,[41] all argue that PNAC members used the events of 9/11 as the "Pearl Harbor" that they needed––that is, as an "opportunity" to "capitalize on" (in Pilger's words), in order to enact long-desired plans.


Jordan...Have you read the book, Crossing the Rubicon:The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil, from Michael C. Ruppert?


Amazon.com: Crossing the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil (9780865715400): Michael C. Ruppert, Catherine Austin Fitts: Books


In my opinion, the best and most comprehensive study of the events surrounding 9/11. I can't recommend it enough to any open minded person who still thinks for themself.


Just a parting tip: Please don't ever respond to that Nick guy. He comes and goes and his posts are only inane drivel. It's been the same pattern for years...best to ignore him.

 

[vince]

(When I caught the last sentence of what Stretch had posted, I had a faint, momentary hope of some worthwhile rebuttals to any of my postings, but, alas ...)

Not nearly as faint as the hope we have of you ever proving the drivel you generally post. How about the video of the Egyptian FM Nick? Care to post a link to that whopper?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Not nearly as faint as the hope we have of you ever proving the drivel you generally post. How about the video of the Egyptian FM Nick? Care to post a link to that whopper?

That would probably require a USB port to be installed in his head... and do we really want to do that? Nevermind make it version 3 compatible just in case those visions are in HD?