Is it true that most gays don't really accept bisexuals?

[SyddyKitty]

God you people take such offense to simple words. It's you people trying to say that I said it doesn't exist when I clearly did not. I don't mask my words like such snakes around here (which reminds me why I took a break from this place). It's your problem that you're taking such offense to something so small while others have made even larger and more offensive posts since. That sounds quite immature to me.

 

[willow78]

Why couldn't you love someone who touches your soul regardless if it's a guy or a girl. I've had relationships with both, (sexually only with women) but I've had male friends I've felt closer to emotionally and I had to wonder if we would have worked out "there" too. I think you're confusing lust with love...everyone likes a good go 'round in the sack but if you can stand to eat their cooking - there might be something more there!

I think you're confusing love with friendship. It's only natural you feel emotionally closer to men than women because you'll have the same experiences as other men and relate better with other men, just as women will naturally emotionally bond and relate with other women. But that doesn't necessarily mean sexual compatibility. Sex and friendship are two different things.

 

[bek2335]

Why do people keep insisting on defining other peoples' experiences? Saying that a person who describes him or herself as bisexual isn't making a legitimate statement is like a female saying something like, "Men don't really like sports. No one could really like sports. Men just pretend to like sports so they can get out of doing house chores."
None of us can know what another person's experiences, motives and perceptions are better than the person him/herself. You wouldn't want me assuming that I know what you feel and think better than you do yourself. I think we need to be treating each other with the mutual respect that says, "You have the primary right to define who and what you are."

 

[willow78]

In response to jason els, I think one reason there is much animosity to people who see themselves as bisexual, is because their potential partners feel that they wouldn't be able to satisfy their needs. I'm sure a lot of people would see this as insecurity, but - and I can only speak personally here - I don't think I could ever go out with a bisexual man because, no matter how much I loved him and he loved me, I would worry that he'd feel the need for something that I can't give him.
The point I was trying to make - and I'm not very good at articulating my thoughts so I totally accept that my post was somewhat confusing - was that when it comes to sex anything can happen but in terms of love you can't have both at the same time.
The so-called bisexuals that annoy me are the DL men who sneak-around with other men while their wives or girlfriends are at home. Thet go DL because they don't have the courage to be honest about themselves because of their stupid male ego. Being gay is still stigmatised in many communities so they have wives or girlfriends because they feel they have to rather than because they want to, keeping a guy or two on the side. These DL men piss me off because they propogate the homophobia in society. It is because of men like this that us gay men get unfairly accused of being a threat to social and family values. That is why a lot of gay men are hostile to bi men.

 

[2322]

Of course maybe I singled you out because I expected more from you. Just a theory.

Clearly you don't believe bisexuality exists as a valid orientation because you call bisexuals, "indecisive," as if their sexuality were a choice. Further you also state that it's not an idea you support. Opinions are supported, facts just exist and don't require support beyond education. You then go on to call Primal_Savage's point primal. Well that's a poor pun but sexuality is primal. Along with hunger, thirst, sleep, and self-preservation, sex is as primal as things get.

Yes, they're just words but you must take responsibility for what your words convey. If you think words don't have an impact, a naive position in itself, then why bother offering your opinion?

God you people take such offense to simple words. It's you people trying to say that I said it doesn't exist when I clearly did not. I don't mask my words like such snakes around here (which reminds me why I took a break from this place). It's your problem that you're taking such offense to something so small while others have made even larger and more offensive posts since. That sounds quite immature to me.

 

[willow78]

Bek2335, I don't know if you're referring to my post but I feel I should clarify my point because I didn't really explain myself very well. When I said that Garth related and bonded with other men better because of shared experiences, I was referring to gender rather than sexuality.

 

[2322]

In response to jason els, I think one reason there is much animosity to people who see themselves as bisexual, is because their potential partners feel that they wouldn't be able to satisfy their needs. I'm sure a lot of people would see this as insecurity, but - and I can only speak personally here - I don't think I could ever go out with a bisexual man because, no matter how much I loved him and he loved me, I would worry that he'd feel the need for something that I can't give him.

That may be true but isn't that something we all have to deal with? Is every person we love perfect in every way? After the initial infatuation thing wears off, who among us is truly perfect? If we were, would jealousy even exist?

Love is love. If you're in love with someone, find that unique spiritual and emotional connection, then whomever else is on the market, regardless of sex, doesn't matter.

 

[widenine]

Why do some gays feel they have the right to question the choices made by other men? I believe they wouldn't in the absence of the harsh discrimination and criticism and fear of some heterosexuals. Without that struggle, there would also be no expectation of bisexuals to join forces.

I don't think homosexuals, i.e.,those born without a measurable sexual attraction to the opposite sex, should expect others, who do have a sexual attraction to the opposite sex, to embrace the need for change with the same determination. The gay struggle may not be as important to them.

This thread is clearly hit a nerve for those who have filled it's pages, but I cannot, for the life of me, understand why. I'm thinking that a person who is monosexual, not enough attraction to the opposite sex to sustain a boner or to persue a sexual experience, is either gay or straight.

If an individual is born or develops the option of acting on feelings for the opposite sex and the same sex, on some scale, then he or she is bisexual. If you're caught with your cock in a vagina, that's heterosexual behavior. You are what you freely choose to do. If you enjoy this behavior, you cannot be a homosexual. What is the problem here?

 

[Quadee]

Most of you bisexuals are being very defensive but are not thinking what the woman or man that may want to be in a relatinship with you feel. Can you honestly say that if you met the right woman or man you can stay with that person forever and not want to go to the other to feel your needs.

Bisexuals need to understand what gay men and woman would go through in a situation like this. Most women don't want their men going to other men and vise versa for gay men.

 

[Oncamale28]

i think its kinda kewl for a person to be bi, just think of all the possibilities

 

[WangerOver]

Most of you bisexuals are being very defensive but are not thinking what the woman or man that may want to be in a relatinship with you feel. Can you honestly say that if you met the right woman or man you can stay with that person forever and not want to go to the other to feel your needs.

Bisexuals need to understand what gay men and woman would go through in a situation like this. Most women don't want their men going to other men and vise versa for gay men.

How would this be any different than a Straight Man wanting to cheat on his wife with another woman or a Gay Man wanting to cheat on his man with another man.

I don't think because the options of having sex with either sex means that if someone is locked into a relationship that they are more likely to cheat on that person.

 

[prince_will]

That seems to be the norm, apparently. I've never had this problem, but then again, i haven't admitted my bisexuality to anyone. People like to say that being bi is the last step towards homosexuality, but i disagree with that. i guess some gay people might think that being bi is a way of shunning homosexuality. i could be wrong.

i always thought that this could be compared to people's stance on issues. There are usually two sides, and saying you're in the middle will sometimes bring resentment from either party. it's a burden, but don't let it get in your way of who you are.

when i originally posted this, i was under the impression that this sort of belief existed, but now that i have encountered it through this thread, i find it incredibly hurtful and jarring.

people who say that bisexuality doesn't exist, are not bisexuals. it's foolish to say that it doesn't exist, because bisexuality is a reality for some people. Like most studies have shown, you can't just choose your sexuality.

with me, i can fall in love with anyone...male or female. i can feel the sting of jealousy as the girl that i'm in love with finds herself a boyfriend while she's away in college and sadly i had to watch her go. to her, i'm only a friend, but she's basically the girl of my dreams.

and also, there's the guy next door who i have been good friends with from birth. i'm in love with him too, but i will never act on it because it knew it would destroy our relationship.

so, bisexuality for me doesn't just deal with "being horny" as someone said in this same thread. it would be easy just to be gay or straight, but that's not how i feel. i'm bi, and i know it.

what if i walk around saying that homosexuality was just a delusion? then i would be ignorant like some other people.

 

[badger2395]

keep in mind --- it is unfathomable to the rest of us -- we who are only attracted to one or the other gender ... so, it does appear like so much fence sitting

...but that's no reason to insist that it doesn't exist, as so many people here have been either directly or indirectly saying. I think this thread ought to be preserved simply as a demonstration of what discrimination against bisexuals actually looks like. Despite research, personal testimony, reasoning and critique, there seem to be people who persist in the belief that bisexuality...

• ...doesn't exist (just untrue)
• ...is vanishingly rare (that's unclear at best)
• ...is somehow "worse" than other sexual orientations (which is the same reasoning used by homophobes about homosexuality)
• ...automatically messes up relationships (no more so than other orientations)
• ..etc. etc. etc.

It's pretty sad, actually. I hope, Nick, that you don't subscribe to any or all these beliefs, but the "fence sitting" comment caught my attention.

 

[2322]

OK, get this.

If a bisexual is in a committed monogamous relationship, then you're right. There are about 6 billion other men and women in the world who might pull them away from the relationship. The situation is obviously much easier for straights and gays because there are only about 3 billion other potential partners to pull them away. Far fewer choices in that case.

Seriously, what's to say any one particular person will be our everything no matter what orientation? If you're worried about your partner cheating on you before you even meet your partner is ridiculous. People make choices in their lives.

Too, not every person, no matter what orientation, may want to opt for a monogamous relationship.

Most of you bisexuals are being very defensive but are not thinking what the woman or man that may want to be in a relatinship with you feel. Can you honestly say that if you met the right woman or man you can stay with that person forever and not want to go to the other to feel your needs.

Bisexuals need to understand what gay men and woman would go through in a situation like this. Most women don't want their men going to other men and vise versa for gay men.

 

[badger2395]

The point I was trying to make - and I'm not very good at articulating my thoughts so I totally accept that my post was somewhat confusing - was that when it comes to sex anything can happen but in terms of love you can't have both at the same time.

Why not? Just because you can't imagine it doesn't make it impossible. The logic you are using is the same - exactly the same - as homophobes who insist that same-sex attraction isn't real, that you can only love someone of the opposite sex. (and I'm not going to get into gender theory here, either)

The so-called bisexuals that annoy me are the DL men who sneak-around with other men while their wives or girlfriends are at home. Thet go DL because they don't have the courage to be honest about themselves because of their stupid male ego. Being gay is still stigmatised in many communities so they have wives or girlfriends because they feel they have to rather than because they want to, keeping a guy or two on the side. These DL men piss me off because they propogate the homophobia in society. It is because of men like this that us gay men get unfairly accused of being a threat to social and family values. That is why a lot of gay men are hostile to bi men.

No, you're making a mistake here. It's not bisexual men you are objecting to. It's men in the closet. They could be bisexual, or they could be gay. But what they are is in the closet. Until they come out and accept their sexuality and be open about - whether that's being bisexual or gay - they are causing the problems you describe.

Put another way, you can't be referring to out bisexual men (like me) because they are open about who they are and the relationships they are in, and they encounter discrimination from gays and straights because of it. It's not like bisexuals get half-bashed, you know.

 

[badger2395]

It's funny how people try and over-analyze others. Still as silly as ever. Oh well, lost cause here. No reason to speak to one another.

Yes, except that when you come in with your not-very-well-thought-out position, don't be surprised when people call you on it. Sad, really.

 

[biguy2738]

In response to jason els, I think one reason there is much animosity to people who see themselves as bisexual, is because their potential partners feel that they wouldn't be able to satisfy their needs. I'm sure a lot of people would see this as insecurity, but - and I can only speak personally here - I don't think I could ever go out with a bisexual man because, no matter how much I loved him and he loved me, I would worry that he'd feel the need for something that I can't give him.
The point I was trying to make - and I'm not very good at articulating my thoughts so I totally accept that my post was somewhat confusing - was that when it comes to sex anything can happen but in terms of love you can't have both at the same time.

Um, actually, I have both at the same time. I am married and I am deeply in love with my wife - in fact, since my realisation that I'm bisexual and especially with my falling in love with a man, our marriage couldn't be any better, stronger or intimate. Bear in mind that I have never had any sex with this man, not even cybered. My wife knows without a doubt in her mind just how deep my love and commitment lies with her. I've made her aware of the fact that there are parts of me that can and will only belong to her and no man will ever be able to touch it, let alone take it away...however, there are parts of me that will never be hers to claim for herself (and it pains me deeply just as much to say it now as it did when I told her about 2-3 months ago). However, there is a man that I'm deeply in love with as well, and he loves me just as much. The crux of the matter is that a lot of respect and honesty is required. He is just as aware that I can never be his completely and he treats my wife and my marriage with the utmost care and respect. We are all deeply aware of each other's feelings and needs and I think that this awareness makes things so much easier.

The issue for me is the sex part...not with him but in general. I can't use another person's body for the sake of an orgasm. Sex is more meaningful to me than that. I would first need to love the person deeply (and vice versa) before I'd be willing to hand myself over to him.

Most of you bisexuals are being very defensive but are not thinking what the woman or man that may want to be in a relatinship with you feel. Can you honestly say that if you met the right woman or man you can stay with that person forever and not want to go to the other to feel your needs.

Bisexuals need to understand what gay men and woman would go through in a situation like this. Most women don't want their men going to other men and vise versa for gay men.

Buddy, generalisations stink. Gay, straight or bi - there are jerks. Period. However not all gay, straight or bisexual people behave in the same manner.

I am deeply aware of my wife's feelings and they are always considered. Regardless of how painful/scary/vulnerable things may be, I ALWAYS strive to be completely honest and upfront with my wife so that she knows what's going on inside of me so that this knowledge is enables her to make informed decisions about what's in her best interests. I've gone so far as to offer her divorce (before having any kind of relationship with a man) in order to try to protect her from pain and destruction.

There may be some who think that it's a free for all but not all of us conduct ourselves in this manner. It pains me deeply that she has a bisexual husband because I can't help but feel as if she's gotten a raw deal (though she tries to reassure me that this isn't the case). God alone knows how I wish that I knew that I was bi before I had gotten married so that she would have been able to have decided if she wanted to marry me in light of what this reality puts before her - it is deeply regrettable on my part. Truth be told (and I've told her this as well), if I had known that I was bi, much as I love her (and did at the time) I don't think that I would have married her. It just seems to be so unfair to me. The ideal for me would be for to bisexual people to enter into a committed relationship together.

I have however given myself permission (so has she) to allow myself to be bi because that is who I am. It is not for the sake of sex, thrills or lust but to be able to live out my truth without trying to suppress parts of myself or my desires. I reached this point in my life because I realised that I cannot live out a fractured existence and by trying to suppress things, I actually stood to make things worse ie it would have a negative impact on my wife and marriage. I also realised that I had no right to demand or even request this of my wife hence my suggestion that we have a serious look at getting divorced.

i think its kinda kewl for a person to be bi, just think of all the possibilities

No it's not. If you're looking for a cheap thrill, then yes, it can be kewl. But when you want to make sense of it, or fit it, be understood (even to understand oneself), to hold onto values that one once held dear etc. it is not cool...it is like the plague.

When I came out to my wife I told her that i wished that I were rather gay because it would have been so much easier...in the sense of things being clearer, belonging to communities that are visible out there, having role models, being able to adhere to norms and values that I was raised with ie monogamy etc.

There are parts to this orientation that one can feel but cannot express because it's just so contrary to the norm. How does one explain being able to love two people and offer them a deep committed relationship? How does one explain the void that one feels when one has a wife and longs to be close to man but is unable to? How does one explain one's knowledge that one IS bisexual, that it's not denial, greed or fence sitting?

I think that part of the reason why a lot of bisexuals have reacted strongly in this thread, is because gay and straight folk aren't aware of just how confusing and burdensome this orientation is...and they'll never know because they aren't bi. There are some things where you just have to be bi in order to understand it - and it isn't a cop out. God alone knows how many times I tried to explain some of my feelings or confusion to my wife and my friends but with such a confusing reality, the more that I try to explain, the more confused that they become. To live with this and to be judged, discriminated upon, deal with generalisations and to have this burden (at times) made light of is frustrating and infuriating. Yes, there are some who make out as if it's a free for all, carefree and fun reality, but for those of us who take it and our choices seriously, it's a painful reality to live with...and trust me, the confusion tends to resurface because we are dealing with layer upon layer upon layer of grey.

So no, it is anything but kewl!

 

[badger2395]

Yes, there are some who make out as if it's a free for all, carefree and fun reality, but for those of us who take it and our choices seriously, it's a painful reality to live with...and trust me, the confusion tends to resurface because we are dealing with layer upon layer upon layer of grey.

So no, it is anything but kewl!

Well, actually, Biguy, it's not a "painful reality" for me to be a bisexual man. I'm totally sympathetic to your position, but I think that it's more complex than you make it out to be.

• Some bi people do go through a lot of pain, upset, etc.
• Some bi people experience relatively little of that. I think I'm in this category, except for dealing with uninformed and biphobic people, but that's like the weather.
• Some bi people - particularly younger bi people - do not encounter any difficulty because of their orientation. In my work on college campuses, I've increasingly found young GLBT people and straight allies simply not getting what we're arguing about here.

For what it's worth, I've been in long-term relationships with men and with women. I've been out as a bisexual man for 28 years. I've been the lead trainer for college campus GLBT speakers' bureaus. I've come out in front of city councils and state legislatures to secure rights for all people, regardless of orientation. And most of the time, I've found support for my orientation. It's actually rather affirming and I appreciate it.

This is probably why I get irritated when I find bi discrimination in a place like this, where it seems pretty silly, at best.

 

[Primal_Savage]

.... I think that part of the reason why a lot of bisexuals have reacted strongly in this thread, is because gay and straight folk aren't aware of just how confusing and burdensome this orientation is...and they'll never know because they aren't bi. There are some things where you just have to be bi in order to understand it - and it isn't a cop out. God alone knows how many times I tried to explain some of my feelings or confusion to my wife and my friends but with such a confusing reality, the more that I try to explain, the more confused that they become. To live with this and to be judged, discriminated upon, deal with generalisations and to have this burden (at times) made light of is frustrating and infuriating. Yes, there are some who make out as if it's a free for all, carefree and fun reality, but for those of us who take it and our choices seriously, it's a painful reality to live with...and trust me, the confusion tends to resurface because we are dealing with layer upon layer upon layer of grey.

So no, it is anything but kewl!

My feelings exactly. I know that I often joke around on these forums about being bi and make out as if it's a free for all, carefree and fun reality but that's really a facade and perhaps my way of dealing with something that's really painful and hard to live with, especially since I never really wanted to be this way. The day doesn't go by without my asking "Why me?"

 

[B_dumbcow]

Personally, i have been not 'accepted' by male gays and straight people.
any lesbian or other bi have been very warm towards me and understanding.

as said before, often people just don't understand and think i am some kind of perv because i like hot guys and hot girls.


but whatever, the best of both worlds :wink: