Is LPSG Intolerant of Christians?

[mitchymo]

Oh how the worm turns.

Christians who feel prejudiced against in a liberal environment are likely to be the same ones who make other groups feel persecuted. Those who want to practice their faith without interfering with the progression of other groups are not the problem, it is always the most conservative members that spread the hate regardless of whether it is a christian condemning homosexuality or a gay advocate mocking blind faith.

If christians feel prejudiced against in a place then perhaps it would give pause for thought about how their attitudes over christian history may have made other groups feel, maybe some christians don't turn the other cheek and get their feathers all ruffled, the hypocricy of the fundamentalist types is laughable.

 

[vince]

There is a difference between responsibility and culpability Vince. You are responsible for the misery Christianity is guilty of creating by being a Christian because you are a supporter of a faith which is guilty of creating misery. Your are not directly culpable for the acts which cause the misery if you were not involved in them, hence the distinction. No typo occured, I was being quite specific.

Yes as an adult you can change your nationality, but you can't choose which nationality you are born with.

In any case the comparison with nationality is even faultier on the basis that being German does not require you to believe anything in particular, least of all in Nazism, nor does it require you to behave in any particular way.

Choosing to be a Christian does in fact require you to both believe certain things and to behave in certain ways or else pay lip service to these things and be a hypocrite.

You are confusing having a faith, with being a member of a church. Churches as organizations AND their supporters/members are responsible and even culpable for the actions of the church. I can agree with that.

But it is possible to be a Christian, without being a member of a church. It is not necessary at all. My parents always said that Christianity has become "Churchianity" and that we should not confuse faith in Jesus Christ with the church. The two have little to do with each other.

You see, I don't think that faith is responsible for the atrocities done in it's name by the usurpers known as "Christian churches".

 

[D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse]

My intolerances are not just for organized religious instituions, but go to the heart of christian doctrine and the "Good Book" itself.

I don't feel this way toward Jews. Yes, I despise the ancient Jews for writing the Book of Leviticus in the first place and inadvertantly foisting their sexual views on the larger world, but the majority of Jews tend to have a live-and-let-live attitude. The Old Testament is their work. Later christians took this material (Genesis, say) and tacked on their own destructive interpretations on pre-existing materials.

Jews don't believe in the concept of "Original Sin" and Adam and Eve is their mythology. Jews do not believe in eternal Hellfire because Jews by and large do no believe in an afterlife; for many jews the idea of "burning eternally" is a sick, twisted notion on their Creation stories.

I reject Virgin Births, walking on water, Bodily Ascention by the godhead and Rapturous Apocalytic Second Comings. The same evangelical mindset that can believe in this nonsense will fight tooth and nail to keep evolution out of public schools and prayer in. They are the fiercest opponents of gay marriage and stem-cell research. Christianity has a long, bloody history. The only reason this Blood has now been abated is because christians are under a new Law, Democracy, and not God's Law.


Scientific thought began under the ancient Greeks (Aristotle. Pythagoras, Euclid, Ptolemy, etc) 2500 years ago. Since christianity took hold at the beginning of the 4th century with the conversion of the emperor Constantine, SCIENTIFIC INQUIRY BASICALLY STOPPED until the Renaissance, when secular Law began to supercede ecclesiatical Law.


Here are some of the ancient Greek scientists. If christianity never took root, we would not have had over a thousand years of hostility towards science. Christians routinely burned and jettisoned (threw into the ocean) volumes of preserved Greek thought because it did not match up with God's Good Book, christian mythology.


Anaxagoras of Clazomenae (480-430 B.C.). Greek philosopher. Believed that a large number of seeds make up the properties of materials, that heavenly bodies are made up of the same materials as Earth and that the sun is a large, hot, glowing rock. Discovered that the moon reflected light and formulated the correct theory for the eclipses.

Apollonius of Perga (262-190 B.C.). Mathematician that did a significant amount of work on the conics (circle, ellipse, parabola, and hyperbola). His work was summerized in his book Conics. Considered the last great synthetic geometer until the end of the eighteenth century.

Aristarchus of Samos (310-230 B.C.). Proposed that the sun is at the center of the universe with Earth along with the other planets circulating around it. He estimated the distance of the sun from the Earth by observing the angle between the sun and the moon when it is exactly half full.

Aristotle (Stagira, 390-330 B.C.). Considered the father of life sciences. He was the tutor of Alexander the Great. Undertook the classification of animals and plants at a large scale. His main discovery in embryology was that the mother's contribution is as important as the father's.

Democritus (Abdera, Thrace, 470-380 B.C.). Greek philosopher. Expanded the concept of atoms that was introduced by his teacher Leucippus and showed that atoms are the basis of all form of matter. He recognizes that the Milky Way consists of a number of stars and that the moon is similar to Earth.

Empedocles (Akragas, now Cicily, 492-440 B.C.). Natural philosopher. Introduced the idea of elements. Recognized the heart as the center of a system of blood vessels, but erroneously suggested that the heart is the origin of human emotions.

Eratosthenes of Cyrene (276-200 B.C.).. Greek astronomer and mathematician. Calculated the circumference of the Earth and finds a figure of 46,000 km which is close to the present measured value. Also lays down the first lines of longitude on a map of Earth.

Heracleides (Heraclea, 390-320 B.C.). Greek astronomer. First to suggest that Venus and Mars may orbit the sun. Also suggested the the Earth rotates around its axis once every 24 hours

Leucippus of Miletus (490-??? B.C.). Greek philosopher. First to introduce the idea of the atom, an indivisible unit of matter. This idea was later extended by his student, Democretus.

Seleucus (Seleucia, 190-??? B.C.). Last known astronomer to champion the heliocentric theory of the solar system until Copernicus.

 

[B_Hickboy]

My intolerances are not just for organized religious instituions, but go to the heart of christian doctrine and the "Good Book" itself.

I don't feel this way toward Jews. Yes, I despise the ancient Jews for writing the Book of Leviticus in the first place and inadvertantly foisting their sexual views on the larger world, but the majority of Jews tend to have a live-and-let-live attitude. The Old Testament is their work. Later christians took this material (Genesis, say) and tacked on their own destructive interpretations on pre-existing materials.

Jews don't believe in the concept of "Original Sin" and Adam and Eve is their mythology. Jews do not believe in eternal Hellfire because Jews by and large do no believe in an afterlife; for many jews the idea of "burning eternally" is a sick, twisted notion on their Creation stories.

I reject Virgin Births, walking on water, Bodily Ascention by the godhead and Rapturous Apocalytic Second Comings. The same evangelical mindset that can believe in this nonsense will fight tooth and nail to keep evolution out of public schools and prayer in. They are the fiercest opponents of gay marriage and stem-cell research. Christianity has a long, bloody history. The only reason this Blood has now been abated is because christians are under a new Law, Democracy, and not God's Law.


Scientific thought began under the ancient Greeks (Aristotle. Pythagoras, Euclid, Ptolemy, etc) 2500 years ago. Since christianity took hold at the beginning of the 4th century with the conversion of the emperor Constantine, SCIENTIFIC INQUIRY BASICALLY STOPPED until the Renaissance, when secular Law began to supercede ecclesiatical Law.


Here are some of the ancient Greek scientists. If christianity never took root, we would not have had over a thousand years of hostility towards science. Christians routinely burned and jettisoned (threw into the ocean) volumes of preserved Greek thought because it did not match up with God's Good Book, christian mythology.


Anaxagoras of Clazomenae (480-430 B.C.). Greek philosopher. Believed that a large number of seeds make up the properties of materials, that heavenly bodies are made up of the same materials as Earth and that the sun is a large, hot, glowing rock. Discovered that the moon reflected light and formulated the correct theory for the eclipses.

Apollonius of Perga (262-190 B.C.). Mathematician that did a significant amount of work on the conics (circle, ellipse, parabola, and hyperbola). His work was summerized in his book Conics. Considered the last great synthetic geometer until the end of the eighteenth century.

Aristarchus of Samos (310-230 B.C.). Proposed that the sun is at the center of the universe with Earth along with the other planets circulating around it. He estimated the distance of the sun from the Earth by observing the angle between the sun and the moon when it is exactly half full.

Aristotle (Stagira, 390-330 B.C.). Considered the father of life sciences. He was the tutor of Alexander the Great. Undertook the classification of animals and plants at a large scale. His main discovery in embryology was that the mother's contribution is as important as the father's.

Democritus (Abdera, Thrace, 470-380 B.C.). Greek philosopher. Expanded the concept of atoms that was introduced by his teacher Leucippus and showed that atoms are the basis of all form of matter. He recognizes that the Milky Way consists of a number of stars and that the moon is similar to Earth.

Empedocles (Akragas, now Cicily, 492-440 B.C.). Natural philosopher. Introduced the idea of elements. Recognized the heart as the center of a system of blood vessels, but erroneously suggested that the heart is the origin of human emotions.

Eratosthenes of Cyrene (276-200 B.C.).. Greek astronomer and mathematician. Calculated the circumference of the Earth and finds a figure of 46,000 km which is close to the present measured value. Also lays down the first lines of longitude on a map of Earth.

Heracleides (Heraclea, 390-320 B.C.). Greek astronomer. First to suggest that Venus and Mars may orbit the sun. Also suggested the the Earth rotates around its axis once every 24 hours

Leucippus of Miletus (490-??? B.C.). Greek philosopher. First to introduce the idea of the atom, an indivisible unit of matter. This idea was later extended by his student, Democretus.

Seleucus (Seleucia, 190-??? B.C.). Last known astronomer to champion the heliocentric theory of the solar system until Copernicus.

So many "facts", so little information. So much knowledge, so little wisdom. So much hostility! Stop grinding that fucking axe of yours, listen to the beat, and dance. You might find peace if you do.

People are wrong about lots of shit. Do you inundate everybody you disagree with with sound bites? You hate Christians, Christianity, and anything that has to do with religion. We get it.

But don't try to pass yourself off as any more rational than anybody else, because you are not, nor will you ever be.

 

[B_cigarbabe]

I think it's interesting that Christians see any criticism of their faith, be it of a personal nature or a more general nature as prejudice. It highlights the difference between atheism's rational consideration of reality which requires one to think objectively and to challenge ideas, even/especially one's own ideas and the way which religion requires and entirely personal and essentially irrational approach instead.

I think it is legitimate to challenge persons of faith with the beliefs which their faith entails, partly to understand exactly how common these beliefs are among practitioners of faith, and partly to understand how much hypocrisy is innate to many people's conception of faith.

What I mean by this is, Christianity (for instance) as faith has been and remains (in the majority) a homophobic religion which has wrought misery and death for the better part of 2000 years in the lives of homosexuals, not to mention millions of other people, be they heretics, non-believers, women, Jews, and a variety of other categories and groups of people. It is not satisfactory to simply blame faceless "religious institutions", these institutions are comprised of real human beings, and are supported by millions of devoutly faithful christian human beings, therefore when I meet seemingly kindly and open-minded Christians who do not espouse the hate and oppression and prejudice which has been the hallmark of Christianity I am interested to understand the amount of disagreement these persons have with these aspects of their faith, and what contortions of conscience and logic these individuals have put themselves through in order to remain kindly and open-minded while remaining a Christian.

One of the things that bugs me most, is that Christians are very happy to be held collectively responsible for all the good they say Christianity has done for the last 2000 years, pointing out that it is a religion of charity and forgiveness, which they say has done an almost unquantifiable amount of good and which is responsible for bringing peace and comfort to billions. These things Christians entirely happy to be associated with, but when one confronts them with all the wickedness and downright evil which has been done by Christianity they suddenly take the view that these evils are the responsibility of some nameless minority within the fabric of the institutions of Christianity and that no individual believer can be held to these crimes and the beliefs which provoke Christianity to commit them. If I bring up the more than one million people who were tortured and burnt by catholic and protestant Christians for being "Witches", or the hundreds of thousands of Iberian Jews who met a similar fate, or the endless wars which disputes between different sects of Christians have provoked or the enormities committed in Christ's name in the Americas, or the very real and very present set of truly horrific crimes committed by Christianity in the modern era I am accused of being an anti-christian bigot.

You can't have it both ways. If you are a christian you are as responsible for the misery and horror and hate Christianity is guilty of as you are involved in it peaceful and charitable and kindly character.


If that appears to be prejudice well I apologise, but in logical terms it isn't. I think that LPSG is decidedly unprejudiced, and that its members do a very good job of policing themselves and each other for outright offensive bigotry of any kind, and I am extremely glad of that. In fact I would be deeply opposed to outright hate and bigotry evinced toward anyone and would have left LPSG had I seen these things going un-challenged or allowed to dominate.

I think the problem is that Christian members do not like it when non-christian members perfectly legitimately question Christianity, and confront Christians with the dreadful things Christianity is guilty of and interpret that as personal attack and prejudice.

Incredibly astute observation Hilaire
and I thank you for pointing out these truths. :smile:
In fact LPSG is intolerant of many people and "things"
Black ,gay, straight, women are just a few.
C.B.:saevil:

 

[ubered]

I think if one is going to say LPSG is intolerant of Christians, one would also have to say LPSG is intolerant of gays, bisexuals, straights, blacks, asians, europeans, africans, australians, latin americans, jews, muslims, hindus, pagans, buddhists, socialists, communists, capitalists, conservatives, liberals, moderates, republicans, democrats, independants, tories, and whigs. All of the groups i've mentioned have had some sort of challenge against them. They've all had people express prejudice against them. They've all had people stand up for them. They've all stood up for themselves. If anyone is so insecure with him or herself that he/she cannot stand to have beliefs challenged, how can he/she expect open discussion of ANY issues of importance?

I, myself, am not Christian. I don't understand a lot of the dogma associated with Christianity. If i don't understand something, i question it. To me, that's not intolerance. To me, that's trying to understand the mind of my fellow poster. At the same time, i'm going to give him/her some info about how I think about things. If he/she walks away from the conversation feeling as though i don't accept him/her, someone wasn't paying attention.

I think that's the way most of us are. Sure, there are a few people who ARE intolerant. Mostly, they get called out on their intolerance by people from all sides of whatever the issue is. But they serve a role too, and without them, debate here would be too civil to be any fun.

Very nicely put, as always :smile:

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

You are confusing having a faith, with being a member of a church. Churches as organizations AND their supporters/members are responsible and even culpable for the actions of the church. I can agree with that.

But it is possible to be a Christian, without being a member of a church. It is not necessary at all. My parents always said that Christianity has become "Churchianity" and that we should not confuse faith in Jesus Christ with the church. The two have little to do with each other.

You see, I don't think that faith is responsible for the atrocities done in it's name by the usurpers known as "Christian churches".

I'm sorry Vince but that's just more moving of the goal posts. So now Christians should not be judged by the actions of their churches ?

Do churches act without the sanction or the collusion of the billions of people who form their congregations then ? The bricks and mortar of a church building are responsible for the crimes of christianity not the individual christians themselves ?

I'm sorry but what you describe is some kind of a la carte nonesense where we all get to believe in Buddha, Jesus, Mohammad, Shiva e.t.c. all at once and call ourselves whatever we want. If your not a member of a church but just happen to believe in a particular deity, how exactly is anyone supposed to address your beliefs in any meaningful way ? Or must you explain every detail of your own particular personal religion to me before I can even comment ? If so then then you cease to be a member of any recognised branch of any recognised faith and become a superstitionist with your own variety of mumbo-jumbo to back it up. To people who have these kinds of beliefs my attitude is shit or get off the pot, have the courage of your convictions to actually espouse a religion or stop pretending to be of that faith and being annoyed when someone has a problem with the religion you pretend to have.

 

[SilverTrain]

I'm sorry Vince but that's just more moving of the goal posts. So now Christians should not be judged by the actions of their churches ?

Do churches act without the sanction or the collusion of the billions of people who form their congregations then ? The bricks and mortar of a church building are responsible for the crimes of christianity not the individual christians themselves ?

I'm sorry but what you describe is some kind of a la carte nonesense where we all get to believe in Buddha, Jesus, Mohammad, Shiva e.t.c. all at once and call ourselves whatever we want. If your not a member of a church but just happen to believe in a particular deity, how exactly is anyone supposed to address your beliefs in any meaningful way ? Or must you explain every detail of your own particular personal religion to me before I can even comment ? If so then then you cease to be a member of any recognised branch of any recognised faith and become a superstitionist with your own variety of mumbo-jumbo to back it up. To people who have these kinds of beliefs my attitude is shit or get off the pot, have the courage of your convictions to actually espouse a religion or stop pretending to be of that faith and being annoyed when someone has a problem with the religion you pretend to have.

"Hey, I'm a complete racial bigot asshole who thinks [fill in non-white racial group here] should all be rounded up, strung up and hung, but don't for one second ascribe any of the KKK's actions to me! Those guys are whack!"

 

[B_jeepguy2]

Choosing to be a Christian does in fact require you to both believe certain things and to behave in certain ways or else pay lip service to these things and be a hypocrite.

This is exactly the problem I have with the Christian faith. I was raised in a conservative Christian family and my grandfather and great grandfather were both pastors so I was in church practically ever time the door was open when I was growing up. There are so many people who go to church every Sunday and act all saintly and have this holier than thou attitude...yet they are drunks, womanizers, closet homosexuals, stoners, gamblers, crooks, etc, etc. Many are hypocrits who just go to church every Sunday, pay lip service to Christian beliefs and put some money in the plate...and then do whatever they damn well please the other six days of the week.

Just in my own conservative evangelical Christian famlly I had a Southern Baptist great uncle who was the town drunk, a Methodist great uncle who was a womanizer, a Methodist uncle who is a drunk and a womanzer, a Methodist aunt who was a lesbian, a Southern Baptist cousin who is a drunk, another Methodist cousin who is a stoner (and may be a lesbian), a great uncle and his three sons who are all pillers of the Methodist church but crooked as hell, and have narrowly avoided being thrown in jail by the IRS...several times due to their shady business dealings. And this is just in my immediate family!

 

[ManlyBanisters]

I wish I had posted what I predicted this thread would become when I first saw it because I was right. Just a load of people saying 'we're not intolerant, Christians really are shite'.

If your not a member of a church but just happen to believe in a particular deity, how exactly is anyone supposed to address your beliefs in any meaningful way ?

Why do you think you are supposed to address anyone else's belief's? What's it got to do with you?

 

[Incocknito]

I think that LPSG is a microcosm of the world. It's not just LPSG, the entire world is increasinly intolerant of Christians.

Indicated by falling church attendance rates, the rise of "alternative" religions etc.

Maybe people are just bored, having heard the same story for thousands of years.

 

[SilverTrain]

I wish I had posted what I predicted this thread would become when I first saw it because I was right. Just a load of people saying 'we're not intolerant, Christians really are shite'.

Oh, so smart!

Being intolerant of the intolerant = labeling the thing as "shite".

Big, big

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

I wish I had posted what I predicted this thread would become when I first saw it because I was right. Just a load of people saying 'we're not intolerant, Christians really are shite'.



Why do you think you are supposed to address anyone else's belief's? What's it got to do with you?

In this context, I meant that someone who just happens to believe in Jesus (in some way or another) cannot take umbrage if they call themselves Christian and someone then presumes them to be a member of an actual Christian denomination and addresses whatever they have to say about their beliefs on that basis.

If your not actually a member of an actual church and don't follow any known christian theology or doctrines why would you feel at the sharp end of prejudice arising from by someone else's opinions of Christianity ?

And frankly if someone else is putting their religious views forward in a discussion forum I have every right to challenge them no? Or is someones faith completely unchallengeable now ?

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

"Hey, I'm a complete racial bigot asshole who thinks [fill in non-white racial group here] should all be rounded up, strung up and hung, but don't for one second ascribe any of the KKK's actions to me! Those guys are whack!"

In fact it would read - "Aw yeah I hate jews and blacks but even though I'm not in the KKK and do not agree with them, I feel deeply offended that you disagree with and abhor the KKK" Even more potty :wink:

 

[Ren69]

No, I have never felt intolerance

 

[ZOS23xy]

Had the Aztec won, guess who would have ended-up having their still-beating hearts cut out to satisfy yet another god?

The irony would have been duly noted in history. Christianity has a history that is filled with blood spillby others in defense of its own faith or attempts to sway others.

Even Thomas Aquinas, who seemed fairly reasonable, wrote somewhere in his massive SUMMA THEOLOGICA that it would be wise to lie to the heathen in an attempt to sway him towards the benefits of Christ.

 

[ZOS23xy]

I meant to say a devout, CONSERVATIVE Christian

You mean like a member of the KKK or Phelp's congregation?

 

[ZOS23xy]

My intolerances are not just for organized religious instituions, but go to the heart of christian doctrine and the "Good Book" itself.

I don't feel this way toward Jews. Yes, I despise the ancient Jews for writing the Book of Leviticus in the first place and inadvertantly foisting their sexual views on the larger world, but the majority of Jews tend to have a live-and-let-live attitude. The Old Testament is their work. Later christians took this material (Genesis, say) and tacked on their own destructive interpretations on pre-existing materials.

Jews don't believe in the concept of "Original Sin" and Adam and Eve is their mythology. Jews do not believe in eternal Hellfire because Jews by and large do no believe in an afterlife; for many jews the idea of "burning eternally" is a sick, twisted notion on their Creation stories.

I reject Virgin Births, walking on water, Bodily Ascention by the godhead and Rapturous Apocalytic Second Comings. The same evangelical mindset that can believe in this nonsense will fight tooth and nail to keep evolution out of public schools and prayer in. They are the fiercest opponents of gay marriage and stem-cell research. Christianity has a long, bloody history. The only reason this Blood has now been abated is because christians are under a new Law, Democracy, and not God's Law.


Scientific thought began under the ancient Greeks (Aristotle. Pythagoras, Euclid, Ptolemy, etc) 2500 years ago. Since christianity took hold at the beginning of the 4th century with the conversion of the emperor Constantine, SCIENTIFIC INQUIRY BASICALLY STOPPED until the Renaissance, when secular Law began to supercede ecclesiatical Law.


Here are some of the ancient Greek scientists. If christianity never took root, we would not have had over a thousand years of hostility towards science. Christians routinely burned and jettisoned (threw into the ocean) volumes of preserved Greek thought because it did not match up with God's Good Book, christian mythology.


Anaxagoras of Clazomenae (480-430 B.C.). Greek philosopher. Believed that a large number of seeds make up the properties of materials, that heavenly bodies are made up of the same materials as Earth and that the sun is a large, hot, glowing rock. Discovered that the moon reflected light and formulated the correct theory for the eclipses.

Apollonius of Perga (262-190 B.C.). Mathematician that did a significant amount of work on the conics (circle, ellipse, parabola, and hyperbola). His work was summerized in his book Conics. Considered the last great synthetic geometer until the end of the eighteenth century.

Aristarchus of Samos (310-230 B.C.). Proposed that the sun is at the center of the universe with Earth along with the other planets circulating around it. He estimated the distance of the sun from the Earth by observing the angle between the sun and the moon when it is exactly half full.

Aristotle (Stagira, 390-330 B.C.). Considered the father of life sciences. He was the tutor of Alexander the Great. Undertook the classification of animals and plants at a large scale. His main discovery in embryology was that the mother's contribution is as important as the father's.

Democritus (Abdera, Thrace, 470-380 B.C.). Greek philosopher. Expanded the concept of atoms that was introduced by his teacher Leucippus and showed that atoms are the basis of all form of matter. He recognizes that the Milky Way consists of a number of stars and that the moon is similar to Earth.

Empedocles (Akragas, now Cicily, 492-440 B.C.). Natural philosopher. Introduced the idea of elements. Recognized the heart as the center of a system of blood vessels, but erroneously suggested that the heart is the origin of human emotions.

Eratosthenes of Cyrene (276-200 B.C.).. Greek astronomer and mathematician. Calculated the circumference of the Earth and finds a figure of 46,000 km which is close to the present measured value. Also lays down the first lines of longitude on a map of Earth.

Heracleides (Heraclea, 390-320 B.C.). Greek astronomer. First to suggest that Venus and Mars may orbit the sun. Also suggested the the Earth rotates around its axis once every 24 hours

Leucippus of Miletus (490-??? B.C.). Greek philosopher. First to introduce the idea of the atom, an indivisible unit of matter. This idea was later extended by his student, Democretus.

Seleucus (Seleucia, 190-??? B.C.). Last known astronomer to champion the heliocentric theory of the solar system until Copernicus.

And the burning of the library of Alexandria was a Christian act....some one murdered the caretaker, Hypatia, disagreeing with her because she was Pagan.

 

[rob_just_rob]

A group that has been oppressing people and imposing their views on all those around them for centuries decides to pretend that THEY are the victims, and calls those who oppose them intolerant. Where have we seen THAT before?

Yawn.

 

[novice_btm]

I'm actually way more "devout" than probably anyone suspects. To an extent, it requires a bit of compartmentalization, which is a good and a bad thing. I prefer to focus on the "good" part of it, and that is, being tolerant and as decent as I can, in all aspects of my life. The "bad" part of it, is that I'm not very forthcoming with my faith. I don't really "hide" my devotion, but I generally don't ever bring it up either. For me, my faith is a personal thing that I'm a bit greedy with. That is, it's MY relation to a higher plane and being, it's my solace, it's my faith. I consider it a gift that was given to me. It's not that I won't share it, but I just don't offer it up.

A lot of this probably shocks some, because of things that I've written in the past about Christianity. It's not shocking to me. I think that there's faith, and then there's BLIND faith. I don't have blind faith. I examine things, and question them. I think that's healthy, and for me personally, I think it makes my faith stronger, and more assured in exactly what it is that I believe. I also think that I have a very different view than many Christians of Christianity. Willtom mentioned Leviticus. Besides contradicting itself, it's also pathetic as a basis for any argument, when the people that throw out passages from it, pick and choose which lines they'll use. I love how no one mentions the abomination of wearing cloth of blended fibers (Lev 19:19), or how the very basis of the sacrament of Communion ("Take this, eat, drink. This is the flesh and blood of My body) violates Lev 19:26. I really bring these up, because Leviticus is constantly referred to, and one of my alternate views is that Leviticus is Old Testament. Why does that matter? Because, as Christians, my belief is that Christ came along and changed all of that, and it's not our concern. The Big Guy in the Old Testament was almost evil. Asking Abraham to sacrifice his son to prove his faith? Seriously? Most mentions of Him are about punishment. With the advent of Christ, things change to, "He's my Father," and He generally becomes more loving, and forgiving. That's the Christianity that I subscribe to, not the old fire and brimstone version. While I consider Him to be a fearsome power, I do not think that He should be viewed as simply fearsome, in and of itself. I just refuse to believe in terror as the basis of my faith, and instead, follow the caring and loving aspect.

Personally, I don't take the attacks and questions about Christianity personally. Actually, I occasionally think that some of them are fairly well aimed. I don't take them as attacks on the faith as a whole. I take them as attacks on the misteachings, and on the misinformed followers. I don't find LPSG necessarily anti-Christian, but instead more anti-Zealot and anti-"blind-faithers", whether those Zealots come in the form of Christians, or the pro-/anti- Circ crowd.