Is martina navratilova bigoted?

Klingsor

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It would seem be very difficult to impugn her LGBT credibility on its face but it is happening.

Why difficult? She's been a staunch gay rights advocate, but that doesn't mean she can't be challenged on this issue.
 

TexanStar

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Nudistpig

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She does not want to compete against transgendered competitors.

Former tennis champ Martina Navratilova criticized for comments about trans athletes

It would seem be very difficult to impugn her LGBT credibility on its face but it is happening.

OK, for one, she is no longer competing so fk you Martina. But let's unpack this a little. She was trained in an era of sport in the Eastern Bloc and the Soviet Union where the female athletes were being given testosterone and other male hormones to increase their ability to compete. Many died young from this. Martina escaped this regime and for her (not saying this is right) she sees shades of Soviet bioengineering of athletes. That said, read a book Martina.
 

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Not a political issue.

Yes it is. You don't have to like it, but identity is political in the US and her voice carries weight in a country where transfolk were just banned from military service (political), in which there are dozens of pieces of gibberish bathroom laws winding their way through civic state level government (political), and trans personhood is under attack by the demagogue in chief and his handmaiden Pence...political.
 

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Like it or not there are indeed differences between a man and woman. Men in general have a larger bone structure and more muscle mass(and the ability to have more muscle mass) than women. This allows the average man to be bigger, stronger, and faster than the average woman. It’s not bigoted, it’s scientific fact.

Allowing a biological male to compete against a biological female is the equivalent of sticking a JV team against a varsity team.
 

Klingsor

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Like it or not there are indeed differences between a man and woman. Men in general have a larger bone structure and more muscle mass(and the ability to have more muscle mass) than women. This allows the average man to be bigger, stronger, and faster than the average woman. It’s not bigoted, it’s scientific fact.

Allowing a biological male to compete against a biological female is the equivalent of sticking a JV team against a varsity team.

This particular issue is tricky. But I agree with TexanStar: too often people bring up topics like this as a way of disparaging transgender people in general. The conversation would be a lot less loaded if everyone was coming from a place of respect and acceptance.
 

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Like it or not there are indeed differences between a man and woman. Men in general have a larger bone structure and more muscle mass(and the ability to have more muscle mass) than women. This allows the average man to be bigger, stronger, and faster than the average woman. It’s not bigoted, it’s scientific fact.

Allowing a biological male to compete against a biological female is the equivalent of sticking a JV team against a varsity team.

Yes, well unlike the opinion you have masquerading here as science, what is generally true about one man or one woman is irrelevant to the question. Overall difference as you have crudely stated it is irrelevant. What matters is the numbers and the ethical question of a person's rights. You are clearly willing to sidestep that entirely by pretending it doesn't exist and offering up a homily of half baked biotrivia. Nope. If you are going to declare that transwomen are not women and transmen are not men, then you must show how that is so. You can't without imposing the 19th century ideas you were taught in school on 21st century science. If we look at the human genome, and scatter men and women based on the degree of statistical difference in markers for the traits you mentioned for example what we get is a fairly regular distribution between individuals and a middle that has both men and women on either side of the median line. What this means is that a large number of women are stronger than men and vice versa.

Where is your outrage for those men who are weaker than women? Where is it for the women who are forced to compete against women and not men, after all they are as strong and stronger than some of their male counterparts? Right we have none of this nonsense because it's not about whether there is going to be some horrible injustice in women's sport because a transwoman won a single event, it's that you don't want transwomen period, or you are parroting the rhetoric of those who think this way. now, when we plot the tranfolx into the scatter, what do you think we see? That neither transwomen nor transmen are at the extremes of the variance they mostly lie in the middle...just like everyone else. Your imagined advantage made up of a false dichotomy is a fiction. It doesn't exist.

So if the tiny minority of trans athletes who are out there possess as a group no statistical advantage and cannot be meaningfully separated from the spectrum of gender in the scatter because they do not form a heterogeneous group then why would we take women and make them compete with men and vice versa? No science dude. None. Just a bit of transphobia.
 
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pred

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This particular issue is tricky. But I agree with TexanStar: too often people bring up topics like this as a way of disparaging transgender people in general. The conversation would be a lot less loaded if everyone was coming from a place of respect and acceptance.

I could care less what a person wants to be or do as long as they are not hurting anyone else. Just for future reference.
 

pred

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Yes, well unlike the opinion you have masquerading here as science, what is generally true about one man or one woman is irrelevant to the question. Overall difference as you have crudely stated it is irrelevant. What matters is the numbers and the ethical question of a person's rights. You are clearly willing to sidestep that entirely by pretending it doesn't exist and offering up a homily of half baked biotrivia. Nope. If you are going to declare that transwomen are not women and transmen are not men, then you must show how that is so. You can't without imposing the 19th century ideas you were taught in school on 21st century science. If we look at the human genome, and scatter men and women based on the degree of statistical difference in markers for the traits you mentioned for example what we get is a fairly regular distribution between individuals and a middle that has both men and women on either side of the median line. What this means is that a large number of women are stronger than men and vice versa.

Where is your outrage for those men who are weaker than women? Where is it for the women who are forced to compete against women and not men, after all they are as strong and stronger than some of their male counterparts? Right we have none of this nonsense because it's not about whether there is going to be some horrible injustice in women's sport because a transwoman won a single event, it's that you don't want transwomen period, or you are parroting the rhetoric of those who think this way. now, when we plot the tranfolx into the scatter, what do you think we see? That neither transwomen nor transmen are at the extremes of the variance they mostly lie in the middle...just like everyone else. Your imagined advantage made up of a false dichotomy is a fiction. It doesn't exist.

So if the tiny minority of trans athletes who are out there possess as a group no statistical advantage and cannot be meaningfully separated from the spectrum of gender in the scatter because they do not form a heterogeneous group then why would we take women and make them compete with men and vice versa? No science dude. None. Just a bit of transphobia.

You are trying to sound intelligent but unfortunately you don’t seem to have a basic understanding of anatomy/physiology.
 
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SonyToyo

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What is most convincing is your attempt to make the case using nothing more than the words "anatomy" and "physiology". Even the dictionary has a definition son. One of the saddest Dunnings a Kruger ever had.

It’s called basic biology, lady
 

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I could care less what a person wants to be or do as long as they are not hurting anyone else. Just for future reference.

The lie detector determined that this is a lie. You obviously care enough about women's sport and transfolx despite not beign a woman or a transperson to spout gibberish about it, so yes, you do care you care so much it makes you irrational. Speaking of which, do you often watch women's sports and if so, what sport and why?
 
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SonyToyo

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The lie detector determined that this is a lie. You obviously care enough about women's sport and transfolx despite not beign a woman or a transperson to spout gibberish about it, so yes, you do care you care so much it makes you irrational. Speaking of which, do you often watch women's sports and if so, what sport and why?

Well, can you really call it “women’s sport” when you’re pushing for biological males to be allowed entry?