Is NATO at war with Afganistan?

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by LuckyLuke, Nov 10, 2004.

  1. LuckyLuke

    LuckyLuke New Member

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    Is NATO 'at war' with Afghanistan?

    On 9/11, the informal pledge of alliance that all of the western nations offered to the United States, through the expressions of their own citizenry as well as their governments was instantaneous and remarkably heartfelt.

    "An attack against one, is an attack against all," seemed to be the only justification that was necessary.

    In the days that followed, the United States government, stated quite clearly and emphatically, that they believed that the attack on 9/11 was caused by Osama bin Laden and that he and his accomplices in this attack, had been aided and abetted by the Government of Afghanistan through the involvement of the Taliban.

    On this basis, the traditional friends and allies of the United States, (France, UK, Canada, Netherlands, Italy, Spain, Germany, etc) all agreed to invoke "Article 5" of the NATO Defence Agreement, which declared Afghanistan to be an enemy-state to all of the NATO alliance members and therefore, 'theoretically', declared a legally justified war against Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, with an integrally linked authorization to pursue and apprehend, Osama bin Laden and his associates. Russia, as a 'friend of NATO', also gave their tacit approval for this operation of war.

    The operation was agreed upon, real support (money, arms, troops) was offered from a wide array of allies, ready to lend support in any way they could. NATO can and did move into Afghanistan - and they're still there - in control of Kabul and that's about it. Apparently, Osama is still there too - or darn close-by. Taliban-elements have also been identified in operations there. Just about everybody seems to be in Afghanistan except the US!

    Now I understand that there is indeed a division's worth of expert US troops in Afghanistan, and apparently they've been there all along now, but it seems mighty quiet in those parts - especially with reports of Taliban and Osama in the neighborhood. Aren't we (as in NATO) supposed to be at war here? It doesn't quite look finished to me.

    Getting Karzi elected mayor of Kabul, with the Taliban, Osama, US troops and poppy-growing tribal warlords running around the countryside is not quite what we, as America's NATO allies, were hopping for, when we all joined together to declare war on Afghanistan.

    So, what's up with that?

    Like, are we still at war with anyone? I mean NATO, of course. I am Canadian and I'm kind of curious if my country is 'at war' with anyone at the moment, and if so, with whom? We certainly were 'at war' with the Taliban-controlled-Afghanistan, but what now? Is it all over there in Afghanistan? Elections for Karzi, a few NATO troops to patrol Kabul, and we all forget about it? Certainly the Canadian navy has been serving in operations with the US Fleet in the Persian Gulf (we've got 8 cute little frigates that are well suited for integration with modern US Fleet operations) and a few thousand Canadian troops have served Afganistan as well.

    So, I really am curious, are we 'at war' with anybody right now?

    I know the US is 'at war' in Iraq, as are it's 'coalition nations' (UK, Australia, Denmark, etc) though I don't believe anyone bothered with a formal declaration of war at all, but again, that is very much old fashioned and long since fallen out of favour. WW1 was the last time a formal declaration of war preceded the actual invasion, and that war was the ugliest of them all, so 'declarations of war' really do seem passe. It still would be nice to see some kind of resolution here though...

    Is NATO still 'at war' with Afganistan? Or Osama for that matter?

    Just curious...
     
  2. madame_zora

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    No, we've just found a way to make a silk purse from a sow's ear- if we make friends with Osama, we can get at his oil. Why else would we abandon him in the desert when we had hiim surrounded? That wasn't an attack, it was a treaty, hmmmmmmmph.
     
  3. KinkGuy

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    Nothing is going to happen to Osama unless the Saudi Royal family tells us to. And they are most likely involved in the overthrow of Iraq. Saudi oil reserves are now just below 50% and won't last another 20 years at the growth rate the world is burning through resources. I may be creating a consiperacy where none exists, but given the bush family ties to Saudi Arabia, I wonder who will wind up with all of Iraq's oil?
     
  4. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
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    Oil?

    It is to laugh!

    It's the cocaine, stupid!
     
  5. KinkGuy

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    Pecker, :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  6. D_Humper E Bogart

    D_Humper E Bogart New Member

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    Erm, I thought it was poppies. (Opium etc.)
     
  7. madame_zora

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    Hey, do we know how to go shopping or what??
     
  8. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
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    I misspoke: I should have said "It's the opium, stupid!"

    Thanks for pointing that out, ORCA. B)
     
  9. LuckyLuke

    LuckyLuke New Member

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    To be honest, I'm not surprised by the lack of any substantive response.
    The issue is indeed quite complex and controversial.
     
  10. jonb

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    Yeah, the environment of Afghanistan is just horrible for growing coca. But it's perfect for growing opium. It's all part of the prison-industrial complex: Get someone to sell opium here, and then arrest people who buy it, and put them in jail. Whatever you do, don't rehabilitate them; instead, make them work for pennies and keep the difference.
     
  11. madame_zora

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    LuckyLuke, I am sorry for the lack of valid response, but what can we really say? Those of us who oppose this war feel shame for the position the US has put the rest of the world in, and those who support it would have a hard time answering your question without the egg on their face getting in their eyes. Yes, the war in Afghanistan had a point, it was a retaliation for 9/11. What's the point now? That has been debated on several threads here as well as in various venues around the world. Depending on how skeptical you are, there are mulititudes of possible answers. We left NATO holding the bag. We have more important things to do than worry about how our allies feel, if we don't care about the UN, why should we worry about our kindly neighbor to the north? Sorry, I feel like 10 lbs of shit in a 5 lb bag for even living here right now.
     
  12. KinkGuy

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    Well, MZ, you feel better about this place right now than I do. :ph34r:
     
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